3 year old not wanting to visit dad (ModNote pst 37)

Hi

So I have a 2 and 3 year old boys. I am not with the mother but there has been disagreements this year and even her mother was having a go.
Lately the minute I put my boys in the car they want to go back to their mam, then it settles but then when they get tired they are looking to go home. There was 1 or 2 things my 3 year old said recently that made me think are they having inappropriate conversations about me in front of the kids. One comment was when the 3 year old was having a meltdown and said I dont care about him or mommy, it was a very strange comment from him.

Is this just a phase not wanting to go with me or would it be something deeper? I am trying to be logical and say it's a phase and he wants to be in comfortable surroundings but he is with me every Wednesday and every weekend so my place wouldn't be unusual surroundings to him. Maybe I am reading too much into it, just looking for some views on it.

Mod Note: HERE

Princess Calla

To me it sounds like your ex and her mother are having conversations that the little fella is hearing.

It's not right to badmouth the other parent infront of children but unfortunately it does happen.

If he says it again or similar hug him and reassure him that that's not the case.

If it happens again maybe have a chat with the ex. Though it's something I'd be wary of as it might escalate the situation.

You seem to have set days of care so I presume that's court order....if it's just an amicable arrangement I'd be looking at getting it legally binding.

shesty

The only thing I will say here is that if they are mainly living in the mother's home, then they probably see it as 'home".They are so small OP, and they just say what is in their heads and "home" is where they are most familiar with at that age, especially when they are tired-they want their bed and their familiar comforts.I am sorry, I think that particular comment is just their age.

Best thing you can do otherwise is stay neutral.Unfortunately your ex could be saying all sorts of things, but equally three year olds say all sorts of things too-it's hard to know.

Dravokivich

Kids are very simple folks. Try not to put too much wieght into what they are saying. Even if you don't get on with their mother or extended family, keep everything civil, whether or not the kids are around.

For a kid that young, anywhere could be home. My son is almost 6 and thinks he has 3 homes. Mine, his mothers and her parents.

Thanks for the responses, i am doing as suggested and not taking it to heart and hugging him when he does it.

Regarding keeping civil i am trying, everytime i am trying to get what is agreed on paper and signed she completely ignores it. i am moving as per changes she has made but i am afraid she will change again, she keeps on throwing about sending her a summons as she will legal aid that way and try to get more money.

If i have my children around a third of the time what is actually a fair maintenance

lazygal

I'd hate to be shuffled around the way children are with a joint custody arrangement. Seems so unfair that they have to suit what the parents have agreed and move from one place to another regularly. I'd want to be in one home at that age too.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

I'd hate to be shuffled around the way children are with a joint custody arrangement. Seems so unfair that they have to suit what the parents have agreed and move from one place to another regularly. I'd want to be in one home at that age too.

So what's your solution. Eliminate the father from the equation

Princess Calla

lazygal wrote: »

I'd hate to be shuffled around the way children are with a joint custody arrangement. Seems so unfair that they have to suit what the parents have agreed and move from one place to another regularly. I'd want to be in one home at that age too.

Yeah having two parents living together constantly fighting is a much healthier solution.

It's a cr@ppy situation and no one plans for it to end up like that.

Children are very adaptable and the most important thing is they know that they are loved and wanted.

lazygal

The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.

Dravokivich

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, i am doing as suggested and not taking it to heart and hugging him when he does it.

Regarding keeping civil i am trying, everytime i am trying to get what is agreed on paper and signed she completely ignores it. i am moving as per changes she has made but i am afraid she will change again, she keeps on throwing about sending her a summons as she will legal aid that way and try to get more money.

If i have my children around a third of the time what is actually a fair maintenance

Getting her to sign a piece of paper doesn't mean anything. She can claim she did so under duress. Don't be afraid of going through the courts. Initially I did it with a Solicitor and Barister to get close to what I needed. but for anytime I'd been in since, The judge was very much willing to discuss things out.

It doesn't have to be like that though. Try to see if a family court that's accesible to both of ye offer a mediation service. They can provide someone to advise on practical solutions, or how things usually work out, or what certain items ye are discussing mean. They won't be inclined to take sides however. If the mother is someone who would be sincerly open to a frank and honest discussion, this could be the better way of approaching it. The mediator can then get agreements sent to the court for a judge to finalise it. But she needs to be willing to be involved in that.

With regards to maintenance. It's not simply down to the proportion of time the kids are with you. Primary residence clearly sounds like it with the mother, so it'll come down to affordability. You'll need to do up an "assessment of means," pretty much an affidavit of your budget. How much you earn, and conditions that could adjust your earnings, then what are your outgoings for rent/mortgage, loans, bills, commuting, clothing, groceries, enterntainment (with the kids). Think about what you've got after that and what you can possibly drop also. Not what you can do after you've paid it.

Also about keeping civil, if it's difficult, just don't say anything.

lazygal wrote: »

The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.

From my own experience, there were some difficulties for the kid, but they got over it. A break up from the status quo can be very confusing for them and hard to understand. It works a lot easier, if the parents don't go through it in a destructive manner. And you bring the kid through it, by trying to talk with them on it. I never expected him to just bounce into place. As far as he's concerned, my family and her family, are his family.

Princess Calla

lazygal wrote: »

The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.

So what's your solution?

I've seen the damage done by parents living together in a completely toxic relationship. There is no way I'd bring my children up in that!

Generally speaking the mother gets priority... Why should dad's only get a Sunday lunch spot? Why should they be missing out on quality time with their children.

It's funny how you hear about the horrible men but rarely hear about the toxic behaviour from mothers. I am dealing with a situation where as long as I was doing house jobs and being overly flexible things were fine but the minute I said no it was passive and direct aggressive behaviour and now provoking me so I take her to court. So she can tell everyone I am the horrible dad who took her to court. Once I refused to be controlled in the name of being amicable and helpful she turned nasty and confrontational. I now realise amicable doesnt work and a clear cut access and maintenance with no flexibility is the only way

She drove her ex husband to be suicidal and now he has zero contact with his daughter. Its amazing how.much this behaviour goes on without being called out for narcissism it is cos everyone seems to think narcissism is a Male phenomenon

Princess Calla

It's in everyone's interest to have clear cut access in place.

You sound like a decent loving father.

Don't bad mouth the mother in front of the children or in their company.

Try to keep everything civil.

Children can come out with some mad stuff so don't take it personally.

I think once the child reaches 10 they get to decide if they want to live with a particular parent.

I agree the mother isn't always the best choice of parent but it's usually the way the court goes unless there is real fear for children's safety.

lazygal

Princess Calla wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.

So what's your solution?

I've seen the damage done by parents living together in a completely toxic relationship. There is no way I'd bring my children up in that!

Generally speaking the mother gets priority... Why should dad's only get a Sunday lunch spot? Why should they be missing out on quality time with their children.

I've seen the damage done when children are shuttled around because of custody agreements when they don't want to leave their primary home but have to pack up anyway. I don't have a solution. I'm thinking of how the children feel having to move around like this. I know my middle child in particular would never want to pitch up to a different place every weekend or whatever and if he was getting upset about it that's clearly not a child centred approach.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

I've seen the damage done when children are shuttled around because of custody agreements when they don't want to leave their primary home but have to pack up anyway. I don't have a solution. I'm thinking of how the children feel having to move around like this. I know my middle child in particular would never want to pitch up to a different place every weekend or whatever and if he was getting upset about it that's clearly not a child centred approach.

Clearly you did not read the original post clearly.

Maybe put yourself in my shoes and see how it would feel. Knowing you are being bad mouthed in front of your child, having a grandmother scream and abuse you while dropping off your child and when I approached the mother on it I was told to send her a summons. So I suppose the mother is always right cos thats clear provocation

As I said it was all rosy when I was doing as she asked and then that got abused by asking for more and more,to the point of house maintenance, shopping etc.

And I have also seen damage done to children by emotional abuse by the mother in making the child feel guilty about enjoying going to their das to the point of the children taking the easy option to not want to go to the dad

Princess Calla

Princess Calla wrote: »

It's in everyone's interest to have clear cut access in place.

You sound like a decent loving father.

Don't bad mouth the mother in front of the children or in their company.

Try to keep everything civil.

Children can come out with some mad stuff so don't take it personally.

I think once the child reaches 10 they get to decide if they want to live with a particular parent.

I agree the mother isn't always the best choice of parent but it's usually the way the court goes unless there is real fear for children's safety.

Thanks for the kind words
It's very tough when someone is deliberately manipulating the situation for their own selfish ego/needs.

Princess Calla

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words
It's very tough when someone is deliberately manipulating the situation for their own selfish ego/needs.

Expect fireworks when you get a new girlfriend. Make sure everything is legally binding before then.

Just remember there are two sweet children in the middle of all this. They deserve the best!

You can't change her behaviour but you can change your reaction.... Easier said than done admittedly.

Good luck

splinter65

Princess Calla wrote: »

Yeah having two parents living together constantly fighting is a much healthier solution.

It's a cr@ppy situation and no one plans for it to end up like that.

Children are very adaptable and the most important thing is they know that they are loved and wanted.

Children aren’t really that adaptable at all. Children like going to bed night after night in the same house and knowing that you are “loved and wanted” should be a given and not something that you need to be grateful for.
The children’s father is essential in their lives and the parents should bend over backwards to accommodate both parents spending time with the children in their own home.

noel1980

You sound like a good solid lad and if you don't mind me saying, your ex sounds like a total bitch.

Don't listen or pay attention to people like lazygal.

As soon as they see a thread like this they hop on and start to spew their man-hating. They can't help it.

Stay strong horse

Forty Seven

Deleted User wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

I've seen the damage done when children are shuttled around because of custody agreements when they don't want to leave their primary home but have to pack up anyway. I don't have a solution. I'm thinking of how the children feel having to move around like this. I know my middle child in particular would never want to pitch up to a different place every weekend or whatever and if he was getting upset about it that's clearly not a child centred approach.

Clearly you did not read the original post clearly.

Maybe put yourself in my shoes and see how it would feel. Knowing you are being bad mouthed in front of your child, having a grandmother scream and abuse you while dropping off your child and when I approached the mother on it I was told to send her a summons. So I suppose the mother is always right cos thats clear provocation

As I said it was all rosy when I was doing as she asked and then that got abused by asking for more and more,to the point of house maintenance, shopping etc.

And I have also seen damage done to children by emotional abuse by the mother in making the child feel guilty about enjoying going to their das to the point of the children taking the easy option to not want to go to the dad

It's called parental alienation. It is extremely common and has now been recognised as child abuse in many countries. Not Ireland yet.

lazygal

noel1980 wrote: »

You sound like a good solid lad and if you don't mind me saying, your ex sounds like a total bitch.

Don't listen or pay attention to people like lazygal.

As soon as they see a thread like this they hop on and start to spew their man-hating. They can't help it.

Stay strong horse

So man hating I'm married to a man and have two sons. What a silly post!

Princess Calla

splinter65 wrote: »

Children aren’t really that adaptable at all. Children like going to bed night after night in the same house and knowing that you are “loved and wanted” should be a given and not something that you need to be grateful for.
The children’s father is essential in their lives and the parents should bend over backwards to accommodate both parents spending time with the children in their own home.

In this case being loved and wanted is not a given.... The mother is being a vindictive c@w and telling her children that their dad doesn't care about them or their mommy.... To be honest I'd say she's 50% correct.

These type of stories really p1ss me off. A child is not a pawn to be used to get back at your ex.

Grow up, act like an adult and put your children first!

noel1980

lazygal wrote: »

So man hating I'm married to a man and have two sons. What a silly post!

This man cannot see his kids and he's reaching out to the community. This is not about you.

I detect serious man-hatey vibes from you! You may not realize it because your mainly female co-workers continuously validate and re-enforce your worldview. Please stop sabotaging this fella's thread. You're happily married? Good for you. This is not the case for this man and he's reaching out. Have some empathy ffs.

lazygal

noel1980 wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

So man hating I'm married to a man and have two sons. What a silly post!

This man cannot see his kids and he's reaching out to the community. This is not about you, ok?

This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

noel1980

lazygal wrote: »

This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

That's your opinion. Some children love going on road trips and having two homes. Every child is different.

I'm sure he's not perfect either, but he's the one who started this thread and he reached out asking for advice. At least just have some empathy. Maybe start by saying "I'm sorry to hear about that, it must be rough not being able to see your kids". Give it a try.

Seriously. give it a try.

splinter65

lazygal wrote: »

This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

I’m with you on this. 15 years of experience and 8 times out of 10 there’s at least one good reason why a father isn’t getting to see his kids.

noel1980

noel1980 wrote: »

This man cannot see his kids and he's reaching out to the community. This is not about you.

I detect serious man-hatey vibes from you! You may not realize it because your mainly female co-workers continuously validate and re-enforce your worldview. Please stop sabotaging this fella's thread. You're happily married? Good for you. This is not the case for this man and he's reaching out. He doesn't need you bringing in your decisive vibes.

Hi Noel

Thanks for the comments. I think you read it a bit wrong, i do see my kids, however the ex is really provoking situations to drive me to take her to court. To what end i can only assume she wants more money. Its become very toxic and even collecting them has become toxic. What i have noticed is the kids are only acting like this since the latest downturn in the 'amicable' relationship.

The ex is very transactional and manipulative. If you met her you would think i was the biggest Pr**k in the world and then after a while you'd realise theres a lot more to it. She seems to switch friends a lot which tells people fall for the victim and hard done by sympathy card until she eventually falls out with them.

She has a certain cohort wrapped around her finger but most others have seen the light.

It was only when my friends and family left enough time pass (when they knew we wouldnt be getting back together) that they really spoke their minds about what they saw as manipulation and a massive entitlement ego.

Anyway as i said it was all fine when i was bowing to her commands which got more and more demanding and full on that i had to take a step back and now realise this was always going to happen. It was so ridiculous i was getting daily calls about every difficulty in her life and trying to get me to solve it, from asking me to get her a sliced pan on the way home from work to ringing about her holiday pay from work. it eventually led to me returning to my car with 8 missed calls and a message to ring as soon as i can. It was a personal matter not related to the kids but i was already around the corner from her house as i couldnt get through and thought something happened my kids. That made me re-evaluate and take a step back to create clear acceptable boundaries, as soon as i stopped taking her calls and stopped bowing to her unacceptable demands she got way nastier and i even noticed situations being blown out of proportion on the phone as other people were listening in. She even called my mam and was trying to frighten her about court.

i just want her to go by what was agreed, only discuss things about the kids and be polite in front of the kids. She has reneged on most things agreed at this stage and i am getting replies to send her a summons. Trying to deal with someone like this is extremely draining and also daunting/overwhelming that i have 15-18 years of dealing with her and her watching anything nice i may get.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

totally agree and the his story and hers is normally from his or her own interpretations, but i can assure you i am dealing with a different beast here. THere is a lot of issues surrounding her own family, neighbours and ex husband that does not paint a pretty picture. When all her battles were coming to an end with her own family, she turned on. At this stage she is a veteran of court and i have never been inside one and have no clue what to expect. I wont get into her insane arguments shes had with other people but trust me its insane and sad at the same time

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m with you on this. 15 years of experience and 8 times out of 10 there’s at least one good reason why a father isn’t getting to see his kids.

I am seeing my kids, go back and read the thread. She is provoking to get me to send her a summons. She is on legal aid so shes on a waiting list, if she provokes enough for a summons from me, i have to pay and then she gets an earlier appointment. She is looking for more money cos as it is i have my kids about 30-35% of the time. She wants absolute control on every situation, i pick them up and drop them off at her house, then she wants me to pick them up and drop them off from her holiday home which is an hour away in the summer. Yes that expensive holiday home for someone who works 2 days a week, i'll let you make your own assumption on that one

lazygal

splinter65 wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

I’m with you on this. 15 years of experience and 8 times out of 10 there’s at least one good reason why a father isn’t getting to see his kids.

It's always a massive red flag when a man or woman needs to list a host of crazy ex things on a public forum. But mostly it's men who do this and seem to think everyone else buys their narrative. Meanwhile the kids just want to be in their home, sleeping in their beds and in their own routine. As an adult I'd hate to have to stay elsewhere every week or month. Why do we expect children to put up with this.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

And again, there was never an issue going between houses until i took a step back.The kids were always bouncing into the car, it has changed dramatically since that time and yes this is my side of the story, but i have enough messages to back my side of the argument up

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

It's always a massive red flag when a man or woman needs to list a host of crazy ex things on a public forum. But mostly it's men who do this and seem to think everyone else buys their narrative. Meanwhile the kids just want to be in their home, sleeping in their beds and in their own routine. As an adult I'd hate to have to stay elsewhere every week or month. Why do we expect children to put up with this.

Its mainly men who get the raw end of the stick, thats why. A man or women should not ever use kids as leverage

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

It's always a massive red flag when a man or woman needs to list a host of crazy ex things on a public forum. But mostly it's men who do this and seem to think everyone else buys their narrative. Meanwhile the kids just want to be in their home, sleeping in their beds and in their own routine. As an adult I'd hate to have to stay elsewhere every week or month. Why do we expect children to put up with this.

if you ever split from your husband and the law treated the dad as the primary carer, only then would see the level of control the primary carer has

noel1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi Noel

Thanks for the comments. I think you read it a bit wrong, i do see my kids, however the ex is really provoking situations to drive me to take her to court. To what end i can only assume she wants more money. Its become very toxic and even collecting them has become toxic. What i have noticed is the kids are only acting like this since the latest downturn in the 'amicable' relationship.

The ex is very transactional and manipulative. If you met her you would think i was the biggest Pr**k in the world and then after a while you'd realise theres a lot more to it. She seems to switch friends a lot which tells people fall for the victim and hard done by sympathy card until she eventually falls out with them.

She has a certain cohort wrapped around her finger but most others have seen the light.

It was only when my friends and family left enough time pass (when they knew we wouldnt be getting back together) that they really spoke their minds about what they saw as manipulation and a massive entitlement ego.

Anyway as i said it was all fine when i was bowing to her commands which got more and more demanding and full on that i had to take a step back and now realise this was always going to happen. It was so ridiculous i was getting daily calls about every difficulty in her life and trying to get me to solve it, from asking me to get her a sliced pan on the way home from work to ringing about her holiday pay from work. it eventually led to me returning to my car with 8 missed calls and a message to ring as soon as i can. It was a personal matter not related to the kids but i was already around the corner from her house as i couldnt get through and thought something happened my kids. That made me re-evaluate and take a step back to create clear acceptable boundaries, as soon as i stopped taking her calls and stopped bowing to her unacceptable demands she got way nastier and i even noticed situations being blown out of proportion on the phone as other people were listening in. She even called my mam and was trying to frighten her about court.

i just want her to go by what was agreed, only discuss things about the kids and be polite in front of the kids. She has reneged on most things agreed at this stage and i am getting replies to send her a summons. Trying to deal with someone like this is extremely draining and also daunting/overwhelming that i have 15-18 years of dealing with her and her watching anything nice i may get.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I have no children so I can't really relate too well. All I'll say is stay real to yourself and don't do anything rash. Keep your cool. It sounds like she is trying to provoke you and make you fly off the handle, so then she can point her finger and say "I told you he's a ***". Then you're in real trouble cus she can get the courts and guards involved, etc. Ever seen that movie "Falling Down"? Don't be that guy. Just be cool, stay sober, exercise, meditate, etc.



Sorry, this is the best advice I can give. Hope things improve for you.

noel1980

noel1980 wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I have no children so I can't really relate too well. All I'll say is stay real to yourself and don't do anything rash. Keep your cool. It sounds like she is trying to provoke you and make you fly off the handle, so then she can point her finger and say "I told you he's a ***". Then you're in real trouble cus she can get the courts and guards involved, etc. Ever seen that movie "Falling Down"? Don't be that guy. Just be cool, stay sober, exercise, meditate, etc.



Sorry, this is the best advice I can give. Hope things improve for you.

Cheers, i try to stay cool but its daunting not knowing when the next drama will come from, i know shes after money. I have decent access only cos it suits her and before lazygirl interjects, its cos she has fallen out with 95% of her family so i'm her 'babysitter' as she likes to put it. i am trying to maintain the access as it will be the norm when she tries to change it in a few years

Forty Seven

lazygal wrote: »

splinter65 wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

I’m with you on this. 15 years of experience and 8 times out of 10 there’s at least one good reason why a father isn’t getting to see his kids.

It's always a massive red flag when a man or woman needs to list a host of crazy ex things on a public forum. But mostly it's men who do this and seem to think everyone else buys their narrative. Meanwhile the kids just want to be in their home, sleeping in their beds and in their own routine. As an adult I'd hate to have to stay elsewhere every week or month. Why do we expect children to put up with this.

Because maintaining a relationship with both parents is the most important thing for the child. Otherwise they grieve, blame themselves and end up developing significant mental health problems as adults.
You don't appear to have a clue about what is best for children if you think staying in another home is bad for them.

Dravokivich

MOD

C'mon we're s'posed top be the grown ups here. This is no the place for lazy stereotypes. If ye can't contribute without'em, don't.

Forty Seven

Deleted User wrote: »

noel1980 wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I have no children so I can't really relate too well. All I'll say is stay real to yourself and don't do anything rash. Keep your cool. It sounds like she is trying to provoke you and make you fly off the handle, so then she can point her finger and say "I told you he's a ***". Then you're in real trouble cus she can get the courts and guards involved, etc. Ever seen that movie "Falling Down"? Don't be that guy. Just be cool, stay sober, exercise, meditate, etc.



Sorry, this is the best advice I can give. Hope things improve for you.

Cheers, i try to stay cool but its daunting not knowing when the next drama will come from, i know shes after money. I have decent access only cos it suits her and before lazygirl interjects, its cos she has fallen out with 95% of her family so i'm her 'babysitter' as she likes to put it. i am trying to maintain the access as it will be the norm when she tries to change it in a few years

Document everything. Get a lawyer, get ready for a fight. You are already losing as family court is biased. Keep calm, as the poster above said. You cannot lose your cool. Not even a raised voice or a bad word.
I can't state how important a lawyer is. You will be torn a new one without a lawyer.
You are being used right now, it will not improve. You must be prepared for all types of nasty accusations once you stand up to it.
It is highly probable you will come out of court with less access and more payments. Then the alienation really begins. It leads a lot of men to suicide.
Did I mention a lawyer?

Forty Seven

Saw mod warning after I posted. I won't post again.

Dravokivich

Forty Seven wrote: »

Saw mod warning after I posted. I won't post again.

Thanks, but it was more so aimed at those using stereotypes to provoke.

krissovo

Hey OP, I really feel for you having gone through a very similar situation with my ex and our children. Long story short when my daughter was 4 she was vocal that she didn’t want to stay with me but it did get better.

This would be my advice:

Kids are robust and I promise when they get older they will tell you that they appreciated staying over. Make there space “homey”, let them help you decorate and make them invest in the space but not too fancy that they don’t want to go home again.

Act the better person, always praise the mother in front of the kids and ignore the toxic atmosphere during the hand over by smiling and being pleasant.

Don’t spoil the kids

Use a mediation service, while both of you are unhappy it will remain toxic. At least work through a 3rd party for a workable solution. Just you and your ex with no mother in laws or sisters otherwise it will fail.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

It's always a massive red flag when a man or woman needs to list a host of crazy ex things on a public forum. But mostly it's men who do this and seem to think everyone else buys their narrative. Meanwhile the kids just want to be in their home, sleeping in their beds and in their own routine. As an adult I'd hate to have to stay elsewhere every week or month. Why do we expect children to put up with this.

The reality is that it’s just not possible for many or most separated couples to spend time under the same roof for a host of reasons so you are essentially asking one of the parents to be cut out of their lives if they are to meet the same house every night criteria.

Many don’t even communicate directly never mind spend time under the same roof.

splinter65

Kevin Fit Suburbia wrote: »

The reality is that it’s just not possible for many or most separated couples to spend time under the same roof for a host of reasons so you are essentially asking one of the parents to be cut out of their lives if they are to meet the same house every night criteria.

Many don’t even communicate directly never mind spend time under the same roof.

The parents are adults. When it comes to the best interest of the children whose welfare and happiness are 1st 2nd and 3rd priority then there are no sacrifices that can’t be made in order to lessen the blow for them.
Children want to be in their own bedroom playing with their own friends doing their homework at their own kitchen table in their own sitting room watching their own Telly’s.
They don’t want to “pack a little bag” to get into the absent parents car to go to another house leaving their friends out playing on the street on Saturday afternoon.
It doesn’t matter how you dress it up it’s a totally unnatural way for them to live and to be honest with you if my mother had tried to tell me that that’s what I had to do then as much as I loved daddy I wouldn’t have been going.
If the two parents can’t bear to be under the same roof for 48 hours and put aside the adult angst for that period then the resident parent should make themselves scarce for the two nights.

krissovo

splinter65 wrote: »

The parents are adults. When it comes to the best interest of the children whose welfare and happiness are 1st 2nd and 3rd priority then there are no sacrifices that can’t be made in order to lessen the blow for them.
Children want to be in their own bedroom playing with their own friends doing their homework at their own kitchen table in their own sitting room watching their own Telly’s.
They don’t want to “pack a little bag” to get into the absent parents car to go to another house leaving their friends out playing on the street on Saturday afternoon.
It doesn’t matter how you dress it up it’s a totally unnatural way for them to live and to be honest with you if my mother had tried to tell me that that’s what I had to do then as much as I loved daddy I wouldn’t have been going.
If the two parents can’t bear to be under the same roof for 48 hours and put aside the adult angst for that period then the resident parent should make themselves scarce for the two nights.

You need to come back to reality, most people do not live in your perfect world. If you have achieved it fair play to you but for some its a very tough period and even worse for a father. My kids are grown up now, one is lawyer in London and my daughter has just qualified as a vet. They just had a different upbringing from the perceived “normal” and did ok. They are doing much Better than some of their friends who grew up in loveless homes.

eviltwin

Ideally parents would never break up and this would not be an issue but it's not a perfect world and while the children are the priority, the parents matter too.

I agree kids need stability and routine but once there is the above in the arrangement of where they go and when it should cause minimal disruption. I'd imagine in cases where the kids are upset it's the attitude of the parents that are the problem moreso than the two homes. You only have to talk to adults who experienced this as kids to see this.

It's not realistic to expect the parents to live together a few days a week and it could send the wrong message to the kids.

pickarooney

lazygal wrote: »

The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.

Yes, the solution is to make them feel comfortable.

splinter65

krissovo wrote: »

You need to come back to reality, most people do not live in your perfect world. If you have achieved it fair play to you but for some its a very tough period and even worse for a father. My kids are grown up now, one is lawyer in London and my daughter has just qualified as a vet. They just had a different upbringing from the perceived “normal” and did ok. They are doing much Better than some of their friends who grew up in loveless homes.

If you see academic achievement and a successful career as evidence of your children being unscarred by their childhood experience then that’s your prerogative.
It sounds as if those things were important to you so you’d naturally feel that they’ve done “ok”.
Growing up in a home with your two biological parents is not “perceived” as normal.
It is normal, perfectly natural and the ideal situation by the way. If you can suggest a more normal natural situation I’d be interested to hear about it.

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

If you see academic achievement and a successful career as evidence of your children being unscarred by their childhood experience then that’s your prerogative.
It sounds as if those things were important to you so you’d naturally feel that they’ve done “ok”.
Growing up in a home with your two biological parents is not “perceived” as normal.
It is normal, perfectly natural and the ideal situation by the way. If you can suggest a more normal natural situation I’d be interested to hear about it.

We had a set agreement and routine in place. She broke everything that wasnt convenient to her lifestyle nothing to do with the kids

The kids are more than used to the routine and know no better, as I said when I chose to stop being used it all changed. Agreement ripped up and being told send me a summons.

You are obviously speaking from a female perspective as you will never have to experience what a Male does in a relationship breakdown. You never hear the feminist movement shouting for equality in this case as the inequality is only towards a male and massively in favour of the women. My kids are being used for leverage, I just never picked up on the signs when I was with her

iamwhoiam

krissovo wrote: »

You need to come back to reality, most people do not live in your perfect world. If you have achieved it fair play to you but for some its a very tough period and even worse for a father. My kids are grown up now, one is lawyer in London and my daughter has just qualified as a vet. They just had a different upbringing from the perceived “normal” and did ok. They are doing much Better than some of their friends who grew up in loveless homes.

What has being a lawyer or a vet got to do with anything .? If I were to speak about my grown up kids it is how loving they are, responsible , kind, fair , and loyal .What their career is is not how I would rate them .

Princess Calla

splinter65 wrote: »

The parents are adults. When it comes to the best interest of the children whose welfare and happiness are 1st 2nd and 3rd priority then there are no sacrifices that can’t be made in order to lessen the blow for them.
Children want to be in their own bedroom playing with their own friends doing their homework at their own kitchen table in their own sitting room watching their own Telly’s.
They don’t want to “pack a little bag” to get into the absent parents car to go to another house leaving their friends out playing on the street on Saturday afternoon.
It doesn’t matter how you dress it up it’s a totally unnatural way for them to live and to be honest with you if my mother had tried to tell me that that’s what I had to do then as much as I loved daddy I wouldn’t have been going.
If the two parents can’t bear to be under the same roof for 48 hours and put aside the adult angst for that period then the resident parent should make themselves scarce for the two nights.

So where is the resident parent supposed to go?
Sofa surfing? Land back in their parents if still alive? Or maybe they have bottomless pockets and can afford a mortgage, childcare and two nights in a hotel every weekend!

Dravokivich

Keep on topic folks. This is not a debate about the rights or wrongs raising kids with separated parents. The OP is going through an incredibly difficult time and is reaching out for advice on how to handle it.