3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

sparky42 · 28-05-2019 4:34pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are we going to war with the welsh?

Nah, they'd be for the NI boats next time...

roadmaster · 08-06-2019 1:05pm

Will we see our naval vessels deployed to the rockall area to protect irish fishing ships if the scots carry out with there threats ?

Larbre34 · 08-06-2019 6:23pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Will we see our naval vessels deployed to the rockall area to protect irish fishing ships if the scots carry out with there threats ?

The Scots have no Navy. The Royal Navy answers to Whitehall and just at the moment I can't see them wanting any part of this spat.

This is just hot air from various Scottish executive ministers who see a general election not far off and also some of the Scottish fisheries unions who are staunch Brexiteers.

The British Rockall claim has never been accepted internationally and despite claims from everyone from Donegal to Torshavn its still international waters.

We may well see INS ships tasked to perform so-called freedom of navigation patrols in the area, just to assert our position, but if the RN don't send any ships then the biggest risk is boat to boat harassment among the fishing fleet, not Cod Wars II.

roadmaster · 08-06-2019 6:42pm

The Scottish fisheries ministry have said they will deploy vessels to stop all non uk vessels fishing there. I would presume the government here would not stand by and let our fishing boats be boarded and harassed . It will be interesting to see what happens

Larbre34 · 08-06-2019 10:13pm

The Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency has 4 or 5 patrol ships, biggest is 84m and about 2,000 tons. They are not military and not armed.

sdanseo · 08-06-2019 10:17pm

We and Scotland need to be getting along. They are very much on the same side of the Brexit fence as us and NI, and of course closest to the Irish culturally.
Bickering over Rockall and (on the scale of the near Atlantic Ocean) the 12nm / 355 square miles around it is pathetic.

On topic, any meaningful news of an EPV?

Larbre34 · 08-06-2019 10:25pm

This is a political issue within Scotland. The fishermens groups are staunch Brexiteers as they see some sort of bonanza from it (wrongly in my view). The Scottish executive, SNP are a remain party but the fisheries lobby is strong and they need to be seen to assert Scotland's interests, even if the rest of the World don't recognise the UK sovereignty claim over the Rockall bank.

Its not a matter of us (or Iceland or Denmark or Spain) getting along or not with Scotland, they will have to sort this one out internally because they made their own bed here.

The Irish Govt must protect the rights of our boats to fish here and see off this groundless bluster from certain quarters in Scotland.

Townton · 09-06-2019 10:31am

sdanseo wrote: »

We and Scotland need to be getting along. They are very much on the same side of the Brexit fence as us and NI, and of course closest to the Irish culturally.
Bickering over Rockall and (on the scale of the near Atlantic Ocean) the 12nm / 355 square miles around it is pathetic.

On topic, any meaningful news of an EPV?

The idea that we and the Scots should naturally get along is baseless. It born of an Irish perception that they dislike the English we dislike the English there for we are naturally friends. Fact it we are political and culturally very different and they have rarely done much to consider our interests. Good example being the rugby World Cup bid the Scots and Welsh turned their back on us without a second thought the strongest support for us came from English rugby union (many probably also don't know that the uk government have been at odds with Scotland over this and are largely in agreement with dublin as to future relationships in regards to fishing in the area). In short we aren't the natural friends that some here seem to think and historical given their role in various periods of our history we never really have been.

Townton · 09-06-2019 10:38am

Savage93 wrote: »

Sadly too true Spark.
I wonder if Brussels will put the boot in as they have largely funded the new vessels and they are supposed to perform roles in EU waters. The present rot in the DF from lack of numbers has to be seriously impacting effectiveness, morale and , of course, ability to undertake any new UN roles .

Weirdly, in the face of the above, 74 officers commissioned last year (15 Maltese I think) and campaign underway to take on 100 cadets in next class. The question is will there be anyone/anything for them to lead in the future??

They took on about 100 last September if I'm not mistaken. Not sure what they are looking to take on next September could be something similar. They have certainly been expanding/renovating the cadet college (at least that's what it looked like when I was last there to cope with the increases) . But given it used to only be circa 25 a year don't know how long they will keep taking in three figures they certainly aren't short of interest. As for the navy cadets I don't know how many they are currently taking.

sparky42 · 27-07-2019 11:30pm

Ahh...
Three "frigates" that covers an utter multitude of sizes/costs, meanwhile a) the aforementioned issues with the Canterbury and b) 6? What exactly do you think we would need 6 of them for?

And of course the whole "manpower crisis" in the DF that looks to be getting even worse over the next couple of years.

mikeym · 12-08-2019 9:04pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/navy-reserve-loses-all-four-motor-launches-943401.html?fbclid=IwAR3npr2UtlrW3eTQSfr105AdgZQLTkIFuPi3vZY4oqBHf21J-IxaDFpin0U#.XVGZBfk8G3Y.facebook

sparky42 · 12-08-2019 10:37pm

mikeym wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/navy-reserve-loses-all-four-motor-launches-943401.html?fbclid=IwAR3npr2UtlrW3eTQSfr105AdgZQLTkIFuPi3vZY4oqBHf21J-IxaDFpin0U#.XVGZBfk8G3Y.facebook

If there was any support for the DF, I wonder how relatively cheap 4 Safehaven hulls would cost.

Yawlboy · 13-08-2019 1:09pm

sparky42 wrote: »

If there was any support for the DF, I wonder how relatively cheap 4 Safehaven hulls would cost.

I think the launches they are referring to were old ships boats from the PV's so probably 40+ years old. Two were retired in 2013 and the others since. They replaced them with RIBS - which is what the NS use on their ships.

As for Safehaven, they have full order books for the next few years and the smallest boats they do are 40+ feet and €700k+ so I don't think they have anything suitable.

sparky42 · 13-08-2019 1:34pm

Yawlboy wrote: »

I think the launches they are referring to were old ships boats from the PV's so probably 40+ years old. Two were retired in 2013 and the others since. They replaced them with RIBS - which is what the NS use on their ships.

As for Safehaven, they have full order books for the next few years and the smallest boats they do are 40+ feet and €700k+ so I don't think they have anything suitable.

I agree that the Safehaven boats are much bigger/more expensive but would have much more capability and actual use for the NSR/NS than either old boats from the 40 years ago or just RIBS, but given how little attention is given to the Reserves as is I think it's RIBS forever for them.

Alkers · 13-08-2019 1:56pm

Yawlboy wrote: »

I think the launches they are referring to were old ships boats from the PV's so probably 40+ years old. Two were retired in 2013 and the others since. They replaced them with RIBS - which is what the NS use on their ships.

As for Safehaven, they have full order books for the next few years and the smallest boats they do are 40+ feet and €700k+ so I don't think they have anything suitable.

They were four vessels purchased secondhand as far as I'm aware, don't think they came from the PV's. They were all different boats but similar with a wheelhouse forward and an open deck aft. As an example:
http://trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=100816&title=m-t-l-niamh&cat=644
They weren't replaced by RIBS, the NSR used the launches and RIBS at the same time for many years.

sparky42 · 13-08-2019 1:58pm

Alkers wrote: »

They weren't replaced by RIBS, the NSR used the launches and RIBS at the same time for many years.

Since they are all decommissioned now they have effectively been replaced by RIBs, or rather they're gone and all that's left is RIBS

Alkers · 13-08-2019 3:22pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Since they are all decommissioned now they have effectively been replaced by RIBs, or rather they're gone and all that's left is RIBS

I'm not sure that they've been decommissioned, just that they're not available for use and repairs have been deemed uneconomical.

Agreed that all is left is RIBS!

Tabnabs · 13-08-2019 3:55pm

The Niamh is still on the go. I pass her regularly in Dun Laoghaire.

Alkers · 13-08-2019 4:22pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

The Niamh is still on the go. I pass her regularly in Dun Laoghaire.

There's no engine in her

Leonidas BL · 13-08-2019 6:03pm

Alkers wrote: »

There's no engine in her

What upgrades is it getting anyway???? Missile launchers :cool::cool:

jonnybigwallet · 08-09-2019 2:40pm

A few of those Safe haven fast attack vessels are what we need to replace them. Good shot in the arm for local defence industry.

jonnybigwallet · 08-09-2019 2:55pm

A few of those Safe haven fast attack vessels are what we need to replace them. Good shot in the arm for local defence industry.

a/tel · 15-09-2019 9:14pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

A few of those Safe haven fast attack vessels are what we need to replace them. Good shot in the arm for local defence industry.

Too expensive for NSR budget and overpowered for them also.

Larbre34 · 16-09-2019 8:51pm

And flimsy for Irish conditions.

sparky42 · 16-09-2019 9:15pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

And flimsy for Irish conditions.

Given they test the boats in Cork Harbour in fairly extreme sea states, I'm not sure that I'd call them flimsy to be fair.

jonnybigwallet · 19-09-2019 8:01pm

I see that Babcocks have won the competition for the 5 RN light frigates with the Arrowhead design based upon the Absalon/ Ivor Huitveld class. Just the ticket for a new flagship for the NS in my opinion. Interesting thing is they are talking about up-gunning the new River class OPV's as an interim measure while awaiting delivery, by fitting missiles and more sophisticated electronics. Shows it could be done with the P60's as well and a damned good idea to boot.

Larbre34 · 20-09-2019 8:56am

Agree about the Arrowhead, but why would the 60's need missiles? Planning to sail up Strangford lock blaring 'a nation once again? '

Tabnabs · 20-09-2019 9:17am

sparky42 wrote: »

Given they test the boats in Cork Harbour in fairly extreme sea states, I'm not sure that I'd call them flimsy to be fair.

You'll notice they never drive them too hard though and they never actually leave the harbour for a passage down the coast in these same conditions.

It's not that difficult to go out into a very large swell, point the bow into the weather and keep the engines ticking over enough to keep that heading. Looks dramatic and makes for fantastic pictures/footage. It's what's known at sea as 'dodging', done for decades now by fishing boats and offshore industry ships alike.

I think the news that Dublin port are replacing their Safehaven Marine pilot boats with British built boats is a shame, but I hear the feedback is disappointing on the Safehaven boats and the Dublin pilot boats do go out to sea in all weathers.

sparky42 · 20-09-2019 10:47am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Agree about the Arrowhead, but why would the 60's need missiles? Planning to sail up Strangford lock blaring 'a nation once again? '

I'd hold off on the Arrowheads until we see if they can actually meet the costs/specs/time of the contract, along with the point that so much of it wouldn't be spec'd in an Irish ship and the minor fact that it's at least 2.5 times what may have been budgeted for the EPV.

As for upgrading the 60's, arguable if we were doing more out of EEZ operations in potential threat zones replacing the manned secondaries with remotes that also had some missile capability might be worth a look, but given that's unlikely right now it's not going to happen.

Also I see the Beckett is being sent to New York as "part of the UN bid"...Why?

Yawlboy · 20-09-2019 1:57pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

You'll notice they never drive them too hard though and they never actually leave the harbour for a passage down the coast in these same conditions.

It's not that difficult to go out into a very large swell, point the bow into the weather and keep the engines ticking over enough to keep that heading. Looks dramatic and makes for fantastic pictures/footage. It's what's known at sea as 'dodging', done for decades now by fishing boats and offshore industry ships alike.

I think the news that Dublin port are replacing their Safehaven Marine pilot boats with British built boats is a shame, but I hear the feedback is disappointing on the Safehaven boats and the Dublin pilot boats do go out to sea in all weathers.

I beg to differ on this, those boats are hammered at sea all the time.

The Pilots in Cork I've spoken to are very happy with the boats. The repeat orders from windfarms, ferry operators in Scotland and Scandinavia and the fact their order books are full for 3 years would indicate that most operators are happy with the boats.

Their latest boat did a delivery voyage with refueling and a one night stop over from Cork to Sardinia with no troubles.

I heard that Dublin port purchased a UK built boat as it was significantly cheaper as they wanted a first export order.

The fact the UK MoD, Polish Military and multiple other ports are happy and keep ordering is a good sign for a small Irish boat builder

3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

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