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Man shoots dead neighbour in Co. Mayo

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    #212
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,152 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Portsalon wrote: »
    The nearest Garda stations to this tragedy are Knock (2½ km) and Ballyhaunis (5 km). Literally light years away :rolleyes:

    And what about poor old Eddie Fitzmaurice who was beaten, gagged, tied up and left to die in Bellaghy which is right next to Charlestown (you wouldn't even know you had crossed the border into Sligo) which has a Garda station.

    There is Garda Station hundreds of yards from this mans home.

    I know the station is now one of those open an hour a day but in 1998 when it happened not sure.

    Now I don't know what this man has gone through, but it sounds like just another poor old man living alone and probably living in constant fear.
    And the real sad thing is he killed one of his poor neighbours who was looking out for him.

    My father lived alone for a while and when I was leaving at night he would lock and bolt front and bad doors.
    Then he would go into bedroom and lock that door.
    He didn't have a gun, but would sleep with a slashhook by his bedside.
    Kind of ironic his choice of defense weapon.

    My father's personal alarm went off one night and the local Garda were called to check on him as he didn't respond to calls.
    They were nearer than me at the time.
    He would not let them into house until they got his neighbou whose voice he recognised.

    For any of the fookers here who are dismissing what people have to put up with, have you ever looked into an 80 year olds eyes and see the sheer fear they have of being on their own at night.

    That is what people living alone in rural Ireland have been dealing with for decades ya sanctimonious fooking ar**holes.


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    #213
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    dulpit wrote: »
    So the logical extrapolation of this is that the correct sentence in court for a break-in is death penalty?

    Your logic perhaps? Up to the court in my mind, but if someone enters a property with malice intended, then any result is of their own choosing.


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    #214
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    B-D-P-- wrote: »
    Yea he should move to dublin...
    What a absolute nonsense comment!!! You've actually managed to annoy me.

    This is his home all his life, So because theres breakins and because the mans scared sh1tless he should move out of the community he grew up in. Away from his friends and family.
    No, he should move out if he feels he can't handle it without killing someone.


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    #215
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    jmayo wrote: »
    And what about poor old Eddie Fitzmaurice who was beaten, gagged, tied up and left to die in Bellaghy which is right next to Charlestown (you wouldn't even know you had crossed the border into Sligo) which has a Garda station.

    There is Garda Station hundreds of yards from this mans home.

    I know the station is now one of those open an hour a day but in 1998 when it happened not sure.

    Now I don't know what this man has gone through, but it sounds like just another poor old man living alone and probably living in constant fear.
    And the real sad thing is he killed one of his poor neighbours who was looking out for him.

    My father lived alone for a while and when I was leaving at night he would lock and bolt front and bad doors.
    Then he would go into bedroom and lock that door.
    He didn't have a gun, but would sleep with a slashhook by his bedside.
    Kind of ironic his choice of defense weapon.

    My father's personal alarm went off one night and the local Garda were called to check on him as he didn't respond to calls.
    They were nearer than me at the time.
    He would not let them into house until they got his neighbou whose voice he recognised.

    For any of the fookers here who are dismissing what people have to put up with, have you ever looked into an 80 year olds eyes and see the sheer fear they have of being on their own at night.

    That is what people living alone in rural Ireland have been dealing with for decades ya sanctimonious fooking ar**holes.

    I would thank this 100 times if I could.


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    #216
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    jmayo wrote: »
    And what about poor old Eddie Fitzmaurice who was beaten, gagged, tied up and left to die in Bellaghy which is right next to Charlestown (you wouldn't even know you had crossed the border into Sligo) which has a Garda station.

    There is Garda Station hundreds of yards from this mans home.

    I know the station is now one of those open an hour a day but in 1998 when it happened not sure.

    Now I don't know what this man has gone through, but it sounds like just another poor old man living alone and probably living in constant fear.
    And the real sad thing is he killed one of his poor neighbours who was looking out for him.

    My father lived alone for a while and when I was leaving at night he would lock and bolt front and bad doors.
    Then he would go into bedroom and lock that door.
    He didn't have a gun, but would sleep with a slashhook by his bedside.
    Kind of ironic his choice of defense weapon.

    My father's personal alarm went off one night and the local Garda were called to check on him as he didn't respond to calls.
    They were nearer than me at the time.
    He would not let them into house until they got his neighbou whose voice he recognised.

    For any of the fookers here who are dismissing what people have to put up with, have you ever looked into an 80 year olds eyes and see the sheer fear they have of being on their own at night.

    That is what people living alone in rural Ireland have been dealing with for decades ya sanctimonious fooking ar**holes.

    You do know that elderly people live alone in cities too? And that Garda response times in Dublin are often as poor as it is anywhere else?

    My mother is one such pensioner, she was robbed once while she was in bed and the Garda didn't show up until 2 days later.

    So yes, I have looked into a frightened old persons eyes and seen fear. They don't have to live in rural Mayo for that.

    And it still doesn't justify killing someone who was leaving.


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    #217
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    jmayo wrote: »
    And what about poor old Eddie Fitzmaurice who was beaten, gagged, tied up and left to die in Bellaghy which is right next to Charlestown (you wouldn't even know you had crossed the border into Sligo) which has a Garda station.

    There is Garda Station hundreds of yards from this mans home.

    I know the station is now one of those open an hour a day but in 1998 when it happened not sure.

    Now I don't know what this man has gone through, but it sounds like just another poor old man living alone and probably living in constant fear.
    And the real sad thing is he killed one of his poor neighbours who was looking out for him.

    My father lived alone for a while and when I was leaving at night he would lock and bolt front and bad doors.
    Then he would go into bedroom and lock that door.
    He didn't have a gun, but would sleep with a slashhook by his bedside.
    Kind of ironic his choice of defense weapon.

    My father's personal alarm went off one night and the local Garda were called to check on him as he didn't respond to calls.
    They were nearer than me at the time.
    He would not let them into house until they got his neighbou whose voice he recognised.

    For any of the fookers here who are dismissing what people have to put up with, have you ever looked into an 80 year olds eyes and see the sheer fear they have of being on their own at night.

    That is what people living alone in rural Ireland have been dealing with for decades ya sanctimonious fooking ar**holes.

    The Eddie Fitzmaurice incident was horrendous but it is very rare - and happened 21 yrs ago. While the fear is real, the facts show that victims of violent crime are far more likely to be young, urban, males. Not elderly rural dwellers.


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    #218
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    riddles wrote: »
    I guess its a sad state of affairs when people feel they are more likely to see a thief than a visitor.

    Particularly since the opposite is true.


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    #219
    GoneHome
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭GoneHome


    KaneToad wrote: »
    The Eddie Fitzmaurice incident was horrendous but it is very rare - and happened 21 yrs ago. While the fear is real, the facts show that victims of violent crime are far more likely to be young, urban, males. Not elderly rural dwellers.

    You don't have to go back 21 years, there have been countless incidences of elderly people being murdered in their own homes in recent times e.g.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-guilty-murder-brothers-mayo-3513528-Jul2017/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ross-outram-28-found-guilty-of-murdering-90-year-old-farmer-paddy-lyons-1.3819049

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/shock-home-burglary-co-limerick-13691545


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    #220
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    KaneToad wrote: »
    The Eddie Fitzmaurice incident was horrendous but it is very rare - and happened 21 yrs ago. While the fear is real, the facts show that victims of violent crime are far more likely to be young, urban, males. Not elderly rural dwellers.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/man-who-beat-horse-dealer-83-to-death-sent-to-prison-for-16-years-1.697340%3fmode=amp

    I would say someone being accidentally killed while someone was protecting their home was more rare than elderly people being murdered


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    #221
    finjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭finjoe


    maybe if you lived in fear like the 85 year old, on your own, you might fire too..


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    #222
    kerry cow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    dulpit wrote:
    So the logical extrapolation of this is that the correct sentence in court for a break-in is death penalty?

    if youknow the consequences then think twice , not a case of I can break into someone property when ever I God dam feel like it .
    no body should break into another person's private space , end of


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    #223
    finjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭finjoe


    dulpit wrote: »
    Something I haven't seen addressed in this thread yet properly - do people believe that if someone is robbing or trespassing that the reasonable response is shooting them dead?

    the man died as a result of the shooting, maybe the old man fired away from the car and the man was away from the car, well, doing what ever, and got hit that way, the perception is the old man went out trigger happy and blasted this man, the Gardai are already saying it being treeated as a tragic accident...this man was 85 years old, apparently, there had been a few distrubances in recent weeks, no doubt living on his own he was frightened and sleep pattern upset or what have you, I am sure he didnt go out an blow the poor unfortunate neighbour away on a whim..some people just wont ever get that...


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    #224
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Less than half of Americans own guns.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own-guns.aspx

    And hows that working out for them. Ireland has responsible gun laws. America not so much.


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    #225
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,004 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    finjoe wrote: »
    maybe if you lived in fear like the 85 year old, on your own, you might fire too..

    Sorry, but this line of argument doesn't cut it....

    It sticks two fingers up to the right to life....

    If the man is in fear for his life then he needs to behave accordingly. And waltzing out in the dark and just discharging a gun and hoping for the best is not what I mean...

    The excuses being made here are a little galling.

    Can I ask, and not just to you: Should this man be removed from the area and barred from owning a deadly weapon, if no criminal prosecution happens? Or is it a case of, he got it wrong this time, but sh1t happens...


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    #226
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    finjoe wrote: »
    the man died as a result of the shooting, maybe the old man fired away from the car and the man was away from the car, well, doing what ever, and got hit that way, the perception is the old man went out trigger happy and blasted this man, the Gardai are already saying it being treeated as a tragic accident...this man was 85 years old, apparently, there had been a few distrubances in recent weeks, no doubt living on his own he was frightened and sleep pattern upset or what have you, I am sure he didnt go out an blow the poor unfortunate neighbour away on a whim..some people just wont ever get that...

    No one is saying he went out with a cigar in his mouth, popping guts full of lead.

    He shouldn't have fired the weapon in the first place, especially in the dark towards someone he had no reason to fire at.


    If it was my father he shot, i'd never forgive him.


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    #227
    Portsalon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Portsalon


    dulpit wrote: »
    Something I haven't seen addressed in this thread yet properly - do people believe that if someone is robbing or trespassing that the reasonable response is shooting them dead?

    Well, it certainly stops them from doing it again. Which, I suppose, at the end of the day is what we'd all like to see happen.

    That said, it seems a bit extreme, so maybe the current practice of giving them a long string of suspended sentences is the right way to go.


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    #228
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,004 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    If the law was actually a deterrent then maybe these scum wouldn't be out terrorizing people.....the law and its punishments are laughed at by these people...

    Personally: Murder should be absolute life, aggravated robbery should be minimum 25 years. Loads more types crimes, but the serious crimes that cause real pain and hurt need serious jail terms.

    The scum out there committing these crimes know damn well that they can expect some absolute appallingly lenient sentences, hence they don't fear as much the getting caught...

    I don't care what anyone says, but let's say a drug importer knows that the minimum sentences should he/she get convicted is 35 or 40 years, would we have them so eager to get involved?

    Even murdering someone can see you serve 17-20 years. It's appalling....


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    #229
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    walshb wrote: »
    If the law was actually a deterrent then maybe these scum wouldn't be out terrorizing people.....the law and its punishments are laughed at by these people...

    When people can rack up 450+ convictions by their 30's you know the system is fcuked beyond use. Until the proper punishments are meted out to those involved in violent crime, then the status quo will continue. But that would take the bread and butter from the legal eagles and we wouldn't need so many of them working for the low lifes at the expense of the taxpayer, so that's never going to happen.
    Unless and until the likes of judges and politicians are the regular and I mean regular victims repeatedly of the scum then people are at the mercy of the habitual offenders who know they have nothing to fear.


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    #230
    Portsalon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Portsalon


    riddles wrote: »
    I guess its a sad state of affairs when people feel they are more likely to see a thief than a visitor.

    Which of them do you reckon is more likely to be heard rooting around in your farmyard at 11.55 at night?


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    #231
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    dulpit wrote: »
    Something I haven't seen addressed in this thread yet properly - do people believe that if someone is robbing or trespassing that the reasonable response is shooting them dead?

    100% Yes. Don't go robbing if you don't want a bullet, or buckshot.


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    #232
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Portsalon wrote: »
    Which of them do you reckon is more likely to be heard rooting around in your farmyard at 11.55 at night?

    I don't know anyone who's house has been broken into, and the vast majority of people haven't been. Whereas I can think of very rare occasions when people called over that late, to drop something off, check up on someone, even ask for a drop of milk in one case.

    Of course there is a threat there, and the fear is real, but let's not lose the run of ourselves here


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    #233
    GoneHome
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭GoneHome


    Portsalon wrote: »
    Which of them do you reckon is more likely to be heard rooting around in your farmyard at 11.55 at night?

    This is the thing I can't fathom, what was the deceased doing roaming around his neighbour's yard at 11.55 at night when the man was asleep in bed.


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    #234
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    finjoe wrote: »
    the Gardai are already saying it being treeated as a tragic accident...this man was 85 years old, apparently, there had been a few distrubances in recent weeks, no doubt living on his own he was frightened and sleep pattern upset or what have you, I am sure he didnt go out an blow the poor unfortunate neighbour away on a whim..some people just wont ever get that...

    Tragic accident my arse.

    He had the balls to open his front door and go out an confront whoever was there. He pointed a gun and pulled the trigger. He could have fired into the air, he didn't. He could have stayed inside his house, he didn't.

    The last thing I would do if I thought there was an intruder, would be to open the door or force a confrontation.

    If he was 25, not 85, he'd be having the book thrown at him, not excuses made for taking another man's life.


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    #235
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    riffmongous wrote: »
    I don't know anyone who's house has been broken into, and the vast majority of people haven't been. Whereas I can think of very rare occasions when people called over that late, to drop something off, check up on someone, even ask for a drop of milk in one case.

    Of course there is a threat there, and the fear is real, but let's not lose the run of ourselves here

    My house was broken into twice in two years. The house was empty both times.


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    #236
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    My house was broken into twice in two years. The house was empty both times.

    Consider yourself unlucky* then BattleCorp, cause that's what it is.

    I really don't mean it in a mean way and I sympathise personally, just that if some people are going to start recklessly shooting at anyone coming up their driveway we need to be honest about the actual chances here rather than excusing it because of 'fear'.


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    #237
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Consider yourself unlucky* then BattleCorp, cause that's what it is.

    I really don't mean it in a mean way and I sympathise personally, just that if some people are going to start recklessly shooting at anyone coming up their driveway we need to be honest about the actual chances here rather than excusing it because of 'fear'.

    I'm not that unusual. My neighbour has been burgled twice in the last four years (different dates to my unlucky incidents). They had their phonewatch alarm ripped off the wall during the last burglary.

    We don't fully know the circumstances of this incident in that 50% of the witnesses are dead so we have only one guy's version of events to go on and he hasn't given his version publically. Time will tell the full story.

    I'm not excusing the old guy for the shooting, he was clearly wrong (based on the evidence so far).

    This incident aside, I do acknowledge that many old people in rural Ireland are living in a state of constant fear. Whether that fear is justified or not, it's real to them and that fear can cause people to act irrationally. Common sense would dictate that you barricade yourself inside your house if you are under threat and phone for help but I know many farmers who have had farm machinery stolen. I can understand why a farmer might confront an intruder in their yard rather than hide inside and let the tools of their livelihood be stolen.


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    #238
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Consider yourself unlucky* then BattleCorp, cause that's what it is.

    I really don't mean it in a mean way and I sympathise personally, just that if some people are going to start recklessly shooting at anyone coming up their driveway we need to be honest about the actual chances here rather than excusing it because of 'fear'.

    Like I said, I grew up in a rural area. Our house was beside our farm. The diesel was syphoned out of the tank, turf was robbed, gates were left open and cattle got out, I came home one night early (Thursday instead of Friday) quite late and opened the door where my 16 year old brother was standing with a kitchen knife and told me he almost buried it in my stomach because THAT is how on edge it is living rural and hearing a car come onto your property in the dead of night.
    My dad was up many nights during my childhood with the gun, because people were out and about around the land. I don’t think he ever fired it but he could have easily been in the same situation that poor man in mayo is in now.

    One Saturday night, 2am the Gardai knocked on our door because a neighbor had reported lights down the fields at the back of all the houses, and my dad drive our tractor down with two guards sitting on each side of him so they could see what was going on.

    I live in an estate now and I wouldn’t be scared if a car stopped outside my house but if I was in my own home house and a car stopped outside at night I’d be terrified.


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    #239
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm not that unusual. My neighbour has been burgled twice in the last four years (different dates to my unlucky incidents). They had their phonewatch alarm ripped off the wall during the last burglary.

    We don't fully know the circumstances of this incident in that 50% of the witnesses are dead so we have only one guy's version of events to go on and he hasn't given his version publically. Time will tell the full story.

    I'm not excusing the old guy for the shooting, he was clearly wrong (based on the evidence so far).

    This incident aside, I do acknowledge that many old people in rural Ireland are living in a state of constant fear. Whether that fear is justified or not, it's real to them and that fear can cause people to act irrationally. Common sense would dictate that you barricade yourself inside your house if you are under threat and phone for help but I know many farmers who have had farm machinery stolen. I can understand why a farmer might confront an intruder in their yard rather than hide inside and let the tools of their livelihood be stolen.
    But how many people are in your parish BC? Think of all the people you know who've had car accidents, work accidents, suicides or just dropped dead. We train ourselves to minimise those more common happenings rather than live in a constant state of fear every time we get into a car.


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    #240
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    riffmongous wrote: »
    But how many people are in your parish BC? Think of all the people you know who've had car accidents, work accidents, suicides or just dropped dead. We train ourselves to minimise those more common happenings rather than live in a constant state of fear every time we get into a car.

    The chance of something happening to you has nothing to do with the level of fear that you feel for something.

    A huge percentage of people have a fear of spiders. I can understand this fear in Australia where loads of the fcukers can kill you, but here in Ireland what are the chances of getting killed by a spider? Close to nil I'd imagine.

    If an old person (anybody) has a fear of being robbed, it doesn't matter what the likelihood of that happening is. All that matters is that the fear is real to them.


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    #241
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The chance of something happening to you has nothing to do with the level of fear that you feel for something.

    A huge percentage of people have a fear of spiders. I can understand this fear in Australia where loads of the fcukers can kill you, but here in Ireland what are the chances of getting killed by a spider. Close to nil I'd imagine.

    If an old person has a fear of being robbed, it doesn't matter what the likelihood of that happening is. All that matters is that the fear is real to them.

    It matters to the rest of us when something like this happens, that's the problem here


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