The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

odyssey06 wrote: »

No one has provided a single piece of evidence of financial doping or explanation of any unfairness carried out by Dublin. If Dublin have no acted unfairly their advantages cannot be unfair.

Not one single piece.
After all these pages.

A compulsory split aint never gonna happen. Never. There is no legal basis or precedent for such an act in sporting history.

I repeat... Dublin are not engaged in financial doping. People are using jargon phrases with no definition or backup. Dublin are not financially doping. Not 1 cent.

Spot on. It’s just a mantra now thanks to Mackenna etc.

The fact is people are making their minds up based on misinformation and a complete lack of understanding of the GAA here in Dublin.

The population argument cracks me up particularly. People are inserting their rural experiences of the GAA and assuming that it’s the same here but with far more people. Most if not all of the Dublin footballers could stroll down grafton street completely unrecognised.

Looking (way!) back the only reason I ever got involved was due to 2 die hard Galway teachers in my primary school who dedicated so much time to coaching us. This was replicated all over the county I suspect and even today playing numbers aren’t as big as some would have you believe.

Ive said it before here but some of you would love to see the sport die off in the capital as long as it meant no more AIs. Sad.

I'm not a huge GAA fan, I like to watch the games but I'd be fooked if I was to name the whole Dublin team.

However one person I am defo able to name is Bryan Cullen, who was Leinster Rugbys Strength and Conditioning Coach for over 4 years.
He's been at Dublin GAA since 2016 (I didn't realise this until I seen him celebrating on the pitch on Saturday)

There is no other GAA team in Ireland that should outbid Money Bags Leinster Rugbys for a coach of that caliber.
So it fair to say that they are paying for top talent across the board, in all areas of coaching, equipment, facilities, etc, etc

Dublin absolutely have an unfair advantage when it comes to GAA.
They've won 7 out of the last 10 All Ireland Finals, it'll be 6 in a row next year and 7 in a row the year after that, and so on and so forth.

Do I think Dublin should be split up?
No, I don't, Teams have always been on the country lines.

Do I think GAA should be made semi pro?
Nope, cause that will make the situation worse and introduce "Business" and "Capitalist Ideology" into the GAA

The way I see it, there are a number of solutions.
1: Spending/Sponsor Cap
2: Smaller counties have the option of joining forces
3: GAA Sponsorship Tax. 70% of all Sponsorship goes to the GAA who can then divide it fairly among the counties

GAA is a proper Sport. It is NOT like soccer which is a business at this stage.
GAA is also a big part of our heritage and needs to be protected.

The same team winning all the time because they have more investment than everyone else is damaging the GAA.

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'm not a huge GAA fan, I like to watch the games but I'd be fooked if I was to name the whole Dublin team.

However one person I am defo able to name is Bryan Cullen, who was Leinster Rugbys Strength and Conditioning Coach for over 4 years.
He's been at Dublin GAA since 2016 (I didn't realise this until I seen him celebrating on the pitch on Saturday)

There is no other GAA team in Ireland that should outbid Money Bags Leinster Rugbys for a coach of that caliber.
So it fair to say that they are paying for top talent across the board, in all areas of coaching, equipment, facilities, etc, etc

Dublin absolutely have an unfair advantage when it comes to GAA.
They've won 7 out of the last 10 All Ireland Finals, it'll be 6 in a row next year and 7 in a row the year after that, and so on and so forth.

Do I think Dublin should be split up?
No, I don't, Teams have always been on the country lines.

Do I think GAA should be made semi pro?
Nope, cause that will make the situation worse and introduce "Business" and "Capitalist Ideology" into the GAA

The way I see it, there are a number of solutions.
1: Spending/Sponsor Cap
2: Smaller counties have the option of joining forces
3: GAA Sponsorship Tax. 70% of all Sponsorship goes to the GAA who can then divide it fairly among the counties

GAA is a proper Sport. It is NOT like soccer which is a business at this stage.
GAA is also a big part of our heritage and needs to be protected.

The same team winning all the time because they have more investment than everyone else is damaging the GAA.

Bryan Cullen was working with the Leinster academy, he was the offered a job with Dublin GAA they didn’t outbid Leinster. This is the type of hyperbole that drags this discussion into the gutter. Basically it’s a man gets job story. He doesn’t get paid more because he’s a well known figure.

shockframe wrote: »

People gloss over the fact that Dublin's cub scene is pretty competitive.,There has been quite a spread of winners at Senior since St Vincents decline in the early 80s.

Add in the fact that there's clubs in recent years like Oliver Plunketts, St Judes and Castleknock who came close to winning it and this all helps in building a good scene for the county.

It can work two ways Ballymun have really suffered because of the number of Dublin players they have.
Ironically the aging Vincents team have caught them out a few times because the likes of Ger Brennan, Mossy Quinn, Connolly - retired from Dublin, others are on the fringes for Dublin like Gavin Burke.
They also won an AI in 2014 after thier first for a long time since 2008

Then there is the added fact of country fellas benefiting from the standard of the Dublin championship - Tomas Corrigan, Paul Galvin, McGeeney, Kevin Dyas, Conor Mortimor, Eugene Keating, Brian Kavanagh.

For every one of those type of lads who start that means it is a Dub who loses their place.
It is not a problem country teams experience. That is where the disadvantage/advantage of being the centre of the economy in Ireland is.
Depending on your viewpoint. You could argue it raises the standard and will help Dubs improve. But it is a delicate balancing act.

If population is to come into it and be a means by which Dublin is to be split then you have no choice but to accept those terms across the board. Population can tbe thrown at Dublin and not others. You split Dublin you must also split Cork and Galway and everyone else until we have 64 equally sized playing areas. Or amalgamte them until again we have 16 equally sized areas.
If we're to tear up traditional county lines we may as well do it at club level too so every club side has a fair crack at population. SOme already amalgamate, why not continue.

No other sport talks about population differences. India has a population over 300 times the size of New Zealand and the West Indies. Yet no chat of splitting india in the cricket or hockey where the sports are far more popular than Gaelic football is in dublin.
Englands rugby population is many multiples the size of ireland wales or scotland. Again nothing. Its a fact of life.

Bridge93 wrote: »

If population is to come into it and be a means by which Dublin is to be split then you have no choice but to accept those terms across the board. Population can tbe thrown at Dublin and not others. You split Dublin you must also split Cork and Galway and everyone else until we have 64 equally sized playing areas. Or amalgamte them until again we have 16 equally sized areas.
If we're to tear up traditional county lines we may as well do it at club level too so every club side has a fair crack at population. SOme already amalgamate, why not continue.

No other sport talks about population differences. India has a population over 300 times the size of New Zealand and the West Indies. Yet no chat of splitting india in the cricket or hockey where the sports are far more popular than Gaelic football is in dublin.
Englands rugby population is many multiples the size of ireland wales or scotland. Again nothing. Its a fact of life.

They do have the Irish provinces playing club rugby and wales made up regions.
Maybe amalgamation of the smaller counties is the way to got if Dublin is split because then it would be a clean slate for everyone.
The diehards would go mad though.

omega man wrote: »

Can’t wait to read the response to this. The population argument is a red herring.

There is no precedent in sport for a territory to be compelled to split by its association.
Anyone who proposed it would be a laughing stock in soccer or rugby or cricket.
Split Brazil? Split England? India? New Zealand?

Anyone who proposes it is not serious about trying to win and at its essence it represents a adefeatist incapable mentality. Its a fantasy that will never happen.

rm75 wrote: »

So Kerry's 91 provincial titles is due to their natural brilliance while Dublins 58 are down to "cheating" basically!!! ?

Given Kerry apparently dont have an "unfair advantage" what would put the lack of success of Clare down to , Laziness ?

How about Leitrim ? Mayo and Galway according to yourself have no "unfair advantage" so logically Leitrim should be winning as many titles.

There will be natural variations in sporting achievements between counties. So titles won by Kerry or Galway in football, or Kilkenny in hurling can be considered to have been won fairly, unlike Dublin's recent victories which are due mostly, but not entirely, to their financial doping and other advantages.

Again- the measure isn't Dublin victories vs victories by other counties. The measure is Dublin victories now versus what they would be without the financial doping and home advantage etc. Unfortunately it's not possible to do a real life experiment checking how Dublin would perform with a smaller population or playing away from home but it stands to reason from all sports, including Gaelic games, that without those advantages they would win less.

However with the financial doping- Gachla and Gormdubhgorm helpfully posted a few charts showing an explosion in victories since it started so it's correct to infer that this has had a big effect.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Excuse me. If you are going to try and warp my username into some kind of support for your arguments. Please do not deliberately misinterpret the sheets I posted which were in response to Gachla's misinformation. Which told an entirely different picture to Gacha's propaganda. It put them under proper scrutiny in the context of Kerry's domination when they had a great team - contrasting Dublin's domination as a great team.

I never said you supported my arguments- I said you posted charts showing a huge increase in titles by Dublin teams since the financial doping started in the early 2000s (2000-2019 specifically). The charts did indeed show that.

You drew completely erroneous conclusions because you are biased and work backwards (i.e your mindset is "Dublin are winning on a level playing field. I must find date to back this up) rather than seeing the evidence and drawing unbiased conclusions (i.e Dublin have unfair advantages and win more because of them) like myself and others.

See above for your other point- the reference is a Dublin team without financial doping and other advantages vs a Dublin team with those advantages, not Dublin vs Kerry in the 1980s. Hope that helps.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also both my Kerry and Dublin football sheets demonstrated that an exceptional crop of u21 footballers were critical to both Kerry's and Dublin's success.

Your charts demonstrated that Dublin showed a massive increase in victories since the financial doping started.

Not the only reason as I've always said, granted, but a big part. A big, big part.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

you are only seeing what you wish to see and make yourself sound silly by trotting out phrases like 'financial doping' and trying to twist others points in line with your own biases.Also it has been pointed out to you that splits will invariably lead to amalgamations of other counties.
Would you be ready for that?

You are only seeing what you wish to see and make yourself sound silly by denying phrases like "financial doping" and trying to twist others points in line with your own biases.

I don't accept that about the amalgamations- Dublin can be split first and amalgamations can be addressed later if necessary, if at all.

The rest of your post is just the usual long winded, wordy garbage that has already been dealt with by other posters by many teams- feel free to go back and quote their posts and argue away with yourself to your heart's content.

odyssey06 wrote: »

No one has provided a single piece of evidence of financial doping or explanation of any unfairness carried out by Dublin. If Dublin have not acted unfairly their advantages cannot be unfair.

Not one single piece.
After all these pages.

A compulsory split aint never gonna happen. Never. There is no legal basis or precedent for such an act in sporting history.

I repeat... Dublin are not engaged in financial doping. People are using jargon phrases with no definition or backup. Dublin are not financially doping. Not 1 cent.

People have provided plenty of evidence, including Gormdubhgorm- have a look at his famous charts and read back on what myself and other posters have said on the matter to help yourself gain some insight.

I repeat... Dublin are engaged in financial doping. It's a good description of their funding advantage and the benefits that accrue from it. Dublin are financially doping. To the tune of millions of euro.

A split will happen or the game will die at inter- county level, which will be a hammer blow to the organisation. You will still be left with a Dublin subdivision to support however.

A split won’t happen, saying it repeatedly won’t make it so.

Can someone tell me why 31 county boards aren't creating holy hell over the funding disparity? Not back room grumblings but a serious position, i.e. not fielding inter county teams

Edit - sorry if that sounds retarded, non GAA person here.

Feisar wrote: »

Can someone tell me why 31 county boards aren't creating holy hell over the funding disparity? Not back room grumblings but a serious position, i.e. not fielding inter county teams?

Not being smart - but I still don't see a funding disparity, unless you mean - why should a bigger county get more money.

If its on a 'per head of population basis' then no right minded person will see a problem with that.

Do you think the PM of Luxembourg goes whingeing to the EU that they don't as much Agri subsidies as Italy or France?

salmocab wrote: »

Do you think Dublin allocate the money?

No I presume the GAA

gaffer91 wrote: »

People have provided plenty of evidence, including Gormdubhgorm- have a look at his famous charts and read back on what myself and other posters have said on the matter to help yourself gain some insight.

I repeat... Dublin are engaged in financial doping. It's a good description of their funding advantage and the benefits that accrue from it. Dublin are financially doping. To the tune of millions of euro.

A split will happen or the game will die at inter- county level, which will be a hammer blow to the organisation. You will still be left with a Dublin subdivision to support however.

Those charts prove nothing. Repeating the same fake facts might convince some simpletons.

You have been asked to provide evidence of financial doping. You obviously cannot.
Not even one single cent.

A split is fantasy stuff. The last resort of a loser mentality that would be laughed at in every other serious sport.

salmocab wrote: »

Bryan Cullen was working with the Leinster academy, he was the offered a job with Dublin GAA they didn’t outbid Leinster. This is the type of hyperbole that drags this discussion into the gutter. Basically it’s a man gets job story. He doesn’t get paid more because he’s a well known figure.

There is no way that Leinster Rugby would have said: "right, see ya", there would have been a counter offer.
The point is that there aren't many other clubs that could afford to pay for his services.
I will concede though that he played for Dublin which could have influenced his decision

odyssey06 wrote: »

Theres nothing unfair about any of that. Not one title.
You can say it is unbalanced but nothing Dublin GAA has done is unfair.

And if you are serious about sharing sponsorship then fundraising and gate receipts must be shared also.

And counties must spend equally on both codes or there must be some balancing mechanism there else dual counties are disadvantaged.

And Dublin should still get the most GDF in the country.

I did not mean to sound like I was saying they were cheating, and you are correct they have not broken the rules.
They do have a huge advantage in many areas over others.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This is the contradiction in your post.
The fact is the GAA is not like soccer success cannot be bought.
There are not transfer systems where Dublin can buy Clifford and O'Shea, Keoghan, Menton, Michael Murphy.
Success has to be developed and nurtured with the talent available.
The root cause is not solely investment it is a number of varibles.

I agree it is not solely the issue, but it is a heavily contributing factor.
The investment they have allows them to get the absolute best out of the Talent they have.
This could be seen in nearly every game Dublin played this season. In the last 15 minutes, their opponents wilt, Dublin charge on.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Kerry have proven consistently successful winning 5 AI's between 1981-2000 and 6 AI's between 2001-2019.
The provincial system was weighted in their favour over the years especially in the pre backdoor - qualifier days.
In fact for long periods the Munster football final was seeded with Cork and Kerry finals
Dublin in contrast had to contend with a number of challengers Meath/Kildare/Offally (for a time) and later a Laois/Westmeath team on a high.

Your talking about 5 and 6 titles over a 20 year periods, Dublin have gotten 7 in the last 10.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I believe Dublin domination is not the real issue but an outdated competition structure. If the top 6 teams in the country played each other in a round robin (home and away) - top four play in a knockout semi finals it would be much better craic.

You could potentially be correct with this.

Regardless, something needs to change.
When the same team wins all the time, supporters get bored, and the situation gets worse for opposing teams knowing that it's near impossible for them to win.
People just wont bother playing, cause what's the point?


Disclaimer: I'm a Dub living on the Northside of Dublin

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Regardless, something needs to change.
When the same team wins all the time, supporters get bored, and the situation gets worse for opposing teams knowing that it's near impossible for them to win.
People just wont bother playing, cause what's the point?


Disclaimer: I'm a Dub living on the Northside of Dublin

This has happened before. From 1975 to 1986, Kerry won 8 out of 12.

Dublin are on 7 out of 9, similar levels of dominance.

Football recovered from the decade of dominance by Kerry, it will also recover from the decade of dominance by Dublin.