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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • #6122
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    cjmc wrote: »
    I have a horrible thought that Johnson has somehow pulled of an amazing political coup


    I too share this disturbing feeling.


  • #6123
    MikeSoys
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭MikeSoys


    if there is checkpoints...for the agri sector could this be done in the marts and factories?
    ...allot cattle to those locations where the admin ssection can process?


  • #6124
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,689 ✭✭✭Infini


    Water John wrote: »
    A panel of Conservative recent staff was damning of Johnson and his chances in an election on Newsnight.

    Honestly I think that should be there an election and people start asking hard questions about his platform it's likely to end badly for him. He doesn't have time, has Farage siphoning his votes and his arguments are all hollow and devoid of any ground in reality. He's alienated himself from people by appointing that spiteful git Cummings along with a Leader of the House (Moggles) who literally doesn't care and looks like hes stuck 2 centuries behind everyone else while treating people with contempt and slandering a Doctor who's trying to make a valid point.

    The way they're acting now could cause a collapse in their vote and farage could end up siphoning votes to the point Labour and others clean house even more so if the opposition organises itself tactically to capture seats by not competing in areas with lower support or encouraging those voters to vote for their allied parties.

    When there is an election called it's likely it will be as important as a 2nd Referendum itself and there's a good chance it could dislodge the Tories and restore some credibilty and sanity.


  • #6125
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Unionsts would feel isolated if left alone.

    And also the UK can't be bound into a union that they want to leave.

    Just like Nationalists have for 100 years? The poor sausages.

    At least they'll keep the vote, will not be subject to sectarian gerrymandering and have their culture protected.


  • #6126
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Just like Nationalists have for 100 years? The poor sausages.

    At least they'll keep the vote, will not be subject to sectarian gerrymandering and have their culture protected.

    It's always there isn't it. I lost count of the amount of Irish when the unionists are mentioned over brexit I hear "f*** them"


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  • #6127
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,911 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Shelga wrote: »
    3 Brexiters, 3 Remainers on QT, all ripping into each other. 6 panelists is far too many, should be 3 or 4 in my opinion.

    It's about as civilised as sea lion feeding time at the zoo, as you can imagine. Emily Thornberry raised incredibly valid concerns about food and medicine shortages in the case of a no deal Brexit, and was jeered and scoffed at aggressively by Kwarteng and Tice, both vile individuals.

    What a toxic, horrible, brainwashed arena UK politics is at the moment.

    The panel and audience were more polarised than ever (probably not a coincidence now that Johnson and Cummings are in charge of the country).


  • #6128
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,885 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    cjmc wrote: »
    I have a horrible thought that Johnson has somehow pulled of an amazing political coup
    Forty Seven wrote: »
    I too share this disturbing feeling.
    It's quite normal. Everybody gets it. You're watching a charlatan reach the point where they actually have to do something and can't bluff any more. And when they continue to bluff, you think that they can't be that vacuous, there has to be a cunning plan behind the bluff and bluster. Unfortunately not. It's just bluff and bluster.

    Up to the point where he went to the Queen for the prorogation, he almost had me fooled too.


  • #6129
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    BBC go straight from a brexit discussion to a documentary about a Roma criminal gang from Poland running a slavery ring in the UK.


  • #6130
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,287 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Sorry Prawn, he was always a charlatan and a liar to me and his brother knows it too.
    Jo has made the supreme sacrafice to ensure the country isn't destroyed. His resignation along with the treatment of the 21 classic conservatives will resonate.

    Forty seven, I wouldn't refer to the Ozzbourns as a Roma criminal gang???


  • #6131
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,885 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Water John wrote: »
    Sorry Prawn, he was always a charlatan and a liar to me and his brother knows it too.
    Jo has made the supreme sacrafice to ensure the country isn't destroyed. His resignation along with the treatment of the 21 classic conservatives will resonate.
    I think you misunderstood me. The thing that I was almost fooled by was that he had a cunning plan.


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  • #6132
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,287 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    He is an empty vessel and its being filled by Cummings.

    PMQ was shockingly poor so too was his public performance today. The Tories bought a pig in a poke.


  • #6133
    maebee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭maebee


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7432741/Boris-Johnson-lost-words-taken-task-man-street-Yorkshire.html

    The man on the street has more of a grip on reality than the PM


  • #6134
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    It's always there isn't it. I lost count of the amount of Irish when the unionists are mentioned over brexit I hear "f*** them"

    It's not a "f**k them". It's a "welcome to equality".

    Unionists and those who are more Anglo-centric in culture will not and cannot be abandoned or mistreated in a UI. Why would they be?

    Just because unionism has its own issues treating others equally doesn't mean Nationalists will. Get off your high horse there Billy.


  • #6135
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Water John wrote: »
    He is an empty vessel and its being filled by Cummings.

    PMQ was shockingly poor so too was his public performance today. The Tories bought a pig in a poke.

    It's fantastic isn't it?


  • #6136
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,989 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    maebee wrote: »
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7432741/Boris-Johnson-lost-words-taken-task-man-street-Yorkshire.html

    The man on the street has more of a grip on reality than the PM


    That's weird, we were all told on the last page that that story is fake and never happened, because the Guardian reported it:
    Forty Seven wrote: »
    To be fair you will hardly going to get a report saying he was welcomed in Wakefield from the Guardian. The guy shouting at him has a strong Irish accent so can we really take this at face value? Wakefield voted strongly for leave. 66.3% in favour. The Guardian is incredibly biased.


  • #6137
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    BBC go straight from a brexit discussion to a documentary about a Roma criminal gang from Poland running a slavery ring in the UK.

    Which BBC are you watching?

    I'm watching BBC NI and they had an "On the air" cartoon then Sharon Osbourne on "Who do you think you are".


    Very very different.


  • #6138
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    That's weird, we were all told on the last page that that story is fake and never happened, because the Guardian reported it:


    He was accosted by an Irishman. I never said it was fake or never happened so kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth.



    I also stated that the guardian is biased. I stand by that assertation.


    I hope this clears up the weirdness that has come over you.


  • #6139
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    The trilemma that Ivan Rogers tried to explain to May is still there:



    There's no way in hell they are going to want to stay in a Customs Union, so it's a choice between 1 and 2.

    The tactic seems to be to insist they will not put up a hard border, while through their actions bringing about the very scenario that will make this an inevitability.

    Johnson won't speak of divergence - he may need the DUP - or talk positively about the backstop prior to an election. The only question is whether he would be willing to discard the DUP in the event of achieving a majority in Westminster and go for divergence via the NI-only backstop.

    Given we know the likes of Gove have opposed the GFA in the past, I think it's more likely they will break their promise on option 1 and bring in a hard border - while blaming it on everyone but themselves.
    The vast majority of brexit voters don’t know what the customs union is, and if they did, they would probably want to stay in it.

    This whole brexit nonsense is one big case of a fringe group taking a party hostage and a big chunk of their supporters succumbing to Stockholm syndrome

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #6140
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,287 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    You may disagree with the bias of The Guardian but its reporting is of a very high standard.


  • #6141
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    Which BBC are you watching?

    I'm watching BBC NI and they had an "On the air" cartoon then Sharon Osbourne on "Who do you think you are".


    Very very different.


    BBC scotland. It's a fly on the wall documentary about a roma gang from Poland operating a slavery ring with over 300 foreign nationals. It will have the leavers foaming at the mouth.


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  • #6142
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Water John wrote: »
    You may disagree with the bias of The Guardian but its reporting is of a very high standard.


    It is, I often use it to quote or refer to a story. Can't pretend it is not a refuge for the left though. It is the opposite of the Mail.


  • #6143
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,287 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    You had a slavery gang run by Irish Travellers too. Does that mean the UK will want to tear up the CTA?


  • #6144
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Akrasia wrote: »
    The vast majority of brexit voters don’t know what the customs union is, and if they did, they would probably want to stay in it.

    This whole brexit nonsense is one big case of a fringe group taking a party hostage and a big chunk of their supporters succumbing to Stockholm syndrome


    Agree with your first sentence. As for the second it is a case of the chicken and the egg. Under May we saw a rise in support for the Brexit party. The tories had no choice but to take their ground.



    I'm not sure a lot of folk on here really appreciate how much of this country is fuming at the lack of progress. Wait till question time goes north....


  • #6145
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,287 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    May had a choice, reach across to Lb and go for a soft Brexit, stay in SM and CU. No one had asked or suggested leaving these.


  • #6146
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Water John wrote: »
    You had a slavery gang run by Irish Travellers too. Does that mean the UK will want to tear up the CTA?


    You know as well as I do that they are global now. CTA wouldn't change anything.


  • #6147
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Water John wrote: »
    May had a choice, reach across to Lb and go for a soft Brexit, stay in SM and CU. No one had asked or suggested leaving these.

    EXcept the very document before the referendum sent to 9 million homes


  • #6148
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    MikeSoys wrote: »
    if there is checkpoints...for the agri sector could this be done in the marts and factories?
    ...allot cattle to those locations where the admin ssection can process?

    Don't think so. The Documentary on One had a programme about 'Benji, the Gay Bull' last Saturday. The bull was going to be slaughtered but some animal lovers tried to buy the bull to save him. The farmer couldn't sell it to them because they didn't have a herd number. I'd imagine, NI farmers could not sell into the Ireland/EU without a herd number. The bull was eventually sent to some place in the UK eventually, but prior to it going it had to go to some some place for veterinary inspection (only 2 places in the county) before it was allowed travel to the UK.

    I just can't see NI animals/milk being allowed into the ROI/EU system without undergoing the same inspections/traceability measures as are in the EU. Then of course, there will be tariffs coming into the EU.


  • #6149
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Water John wrote: »
    May had a choice, reach across to Lb and go for a soft Brexit, stay in SM and CU. No one had asked or suggested leaving these.


    That's just not true. It was well sold to the populace.


  • #6150
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    That's just not true. It was well sold to the populace.
    But of course the option of staying in the Single Market and/or the CU was also well sold to the public. May could just as readily have chosen a soft Brexit as a hard, and could with equal credibility have pointed to the referendum outcome as giving her a mandate to do so.

    This was very much a choice of May's. The way the referndum was set up and the campaign run, if "Leave" won the choice of Brexit strategy was always going to be made after the referendum by politicians, and the only constraint imposed by the referendumer result was that they could not choose "Remain".


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  • #6151
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Forty Seven wrote: »
    That's just not true. It was well sold to the populace.
    But of course the option of staying in the Single Market and/or the CU was also well sold to the public. May could just as readily have chosen a soft Brexit as a hard, and could with equal credibility have pointed to the referendum outcome as giving her a mandate to do so.

    This was very much a choice of May's. The way the referndum was set up and the campaign run, if "Leave" won the choice of Brexit strategy was always going to be made after the referendum by politicians, and the only constraint imposed by the referendumer result was that they could not choose "Remain".

    This referendum came about and was voted in because of immigration. There would be no support for the single market as it comes with free movement of people.


This discussion has been closed.
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