Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Thats the EU fear...they keep saying "we don't want the UK to become the singapore of europe"

I havent heard anyone from the EU saying that...do you have a link?

Forty Seven wrote: »

He believes it will trap us into the customs union and there is no way to terminate it from our end. he also believes it will hamper other trade deals we may be able to make.

No, what does he have against the original NI backstop?

I expect it's going to be quite the blame game now with the border and resultant infrastructure.

I suggest to the government to consider re-locating the Mosney Accomodation Centre to the larger site that is available opposite the Carnbeg Hotel & Spa just outside Dundalk on the Armagh Rd, just 3km from the border.

News of such a move should be well received by the tabloid press in Britain and may concentrate the minds on that border.

All the Tories on newsnight are on message blaming all the other members of parliament but themselves for the current state of affairs..

Andrea Jenkyns being particularly toxic in her blame game

Forty Seven wrote: »

The Paras?

The Paras what?

cryptocurrency wrote: »

They could argue the GFA is two sides and the backstop isolates the other. Then they are back to both sides need an alternative to save GFA

This is a UK action that hurts the GFA. Ireland have done nothing but try and keep its status quo.

Ireland have given potential solutions in the backstop/NI only backstop. The UK has offered nothing and has just sat there giving out that other people have not done all the work for them.

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'd be very loathe to predict any outcome at this stage. There's one thing for sure though, Johnson is a polarising figure. A lot more than I thought he would be, and he's not exactly covering himself in glory at the moment.

Cummings is going to have to work his big brain very hard to try and turn the perception of Johnson around I think,

Wakefield's weary voters: 'Johnson never speaks to normal folk'

Like a touring pantomime villain, Boris Johnson swept into Wakefield to a chorus of jeers. A hastily-assembled crowd chanted “where’s your brother gone?” and waved EU flags as the prime minister bounded into the West Yorkshire city hours after the surprise resignation of his sibling and cabinet colleague.

Most people met his arrival with a weary sigh. “They promise you this and that and it never materialises. We’ve no reason to trust them,” said Clare Ramsden, 44, over a counter of golden-brown pastries at Thomas the Baker. “They’re sat in their office dictating to you, and he [Johnson] has got all this money but he never speaks to normal folk.”

The article goes on to speak to voters and you can see why Labour has been reticent to go for Remain, but I feel the time has come to tell the truth to the voters. If they think Farage will be good for them in the long run then let them suffer.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Quit, or refuse. Paint himself as a do or die brexiteer and the rest of parliament against the people

I don't think Johnson should be calling for a election after the reception he got today in Leeds,

https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1169661176105639937?s=20

That is Yorkshire where he apparently will win the vote. I am sure a waffling rich old Etonian is exactly the person to pull the people out of the misery of the last 9 years.

Forty Seven wrote: »

Just saw Leo looking very dejected telling a crowd the bad news on the BBC. He said there will be checks on the border.



How likely are we to see the troubles back if the border becomes an issue?

I will take the word of the previous Chief Constable and the current one as well who said a return is likely. The blame will then be squarely on the doorstep of the liars and charlatans who ran the Leave campaigns.

Just to add to those thinking the Tories will easily win, they have a massive problem with their image and Rees-Mogg lying down in parliament like the proceedings bored him and him taking on Dr Nicholl will not have gone unnoticed. I hope enough people will realize the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg care only for themselves. I mean they should have had enough warnings already you would think.

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1169677021565374465?s=20

That is the Chief Medical Officer standing by Dr Nicholl after he compared him to the anti-vaxxer who lost his medical license due to his use of misleading information to advance his point of view. Rees-Mogg did this under Parliamentary Privilege so he cannot be sued, but he was challenged by Dr Nicholl to tell it to his face outside of parliament. To no surprise this was not taken up by Rees-Mogg.

The trilemma that Ivan Rogers tried to explain to May is still there:

You can have just 2 but not all 3 of the following:

1. No hard border in Ireland
2. No divergence between GB/NI
3. UK out of Customs Union

There's no way in hell they are going to want to stay in a Customs Union, so it's a choice between 1 and 2.

The tactic seems to be to insist they will not put up a hard border, while through their actions bringing about the very scenario that will make this an inevitability.

Johnson won't speak of divergence - he may need the DUP - or talk positively about the backstop prior to an election. The only question is whether he would be willing to discard the DUP in the event of achieving a majority in Westminster and go for divergence via the NI-only backstop.

Given we know the likes of Gove have opposed the GFA in the past, I think it's more likely they will break their promise on option 1 and bring in a hard border - while blaming it on everyone but themselves.

Forty Seven wrote: »

To be fair you will hardly going to get a report saying he was welcomed in Wakefield from the Guardian. The guy shouting at him has a strong Irish accent so can we really take this at face value? Wakefield voted strongly for leave. 66.3% in favour. The Guardian is incredibly biased.

If you had read the article you would have seen that when the reporters actually went out to talk to the people there was actually support for Johnson and Farage. If anything other than the line about him being jeered it showed that the town has not moved to Remain. That supports your cause right now to leave the EU, that seems to me to be very fair reporting from The Guardian.

In any case, so the proposals I believe the UK has come up on the backstop has been mentioned before, but here is a thread expanding what was apparently suggested by the UK.

https://twitter.com/adamfleming/status/1169642575130701829?s=20

https://twitter.com/adamfleming/status/1169642577424977921?s=20

https://twitter.com/adamfleming/status/1169642579668930561?s=20

Basically take the Trump sharpie and cross out any mention of the backstop like it didn't exist. Only the citizens rights, common electricity market and the CTA survives from the backstop. The border will sorted after they have left and any references to the future relationship in the backstop needs to go as well.

In return for this the UK expects a trade deal better than the recent one with Canada, minus the level playing field and dispute resolution mechanism. I hope Frost did all of this with determination and energy, because these items might seem out of reach unless you really believe.

Enzokk wrote: »

Cummings is going to have to work his big brain very hard to try and turn the perception of Johnson around I think,

Wakefield's weary voters: 'Johnson never speaks to normal folk'

The article goes on to speak to voters and you can see why Labour has been reticent to go for Remain, but I feel the time has come to tell the truth to the voters. If they think Farage will be good for them in the long run then let them suffer.

I don't think Johnson should be calling for a election after the reception he got today in Leeds,

https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1169661176105639937?s=20

That is Yorkshire where he apparently will win the vote. I am sure a waffling rich old Etonian is exactly the person to pull the people out of the misery of the last 9 years.

I will take the word of the previous Chief Constable and the current one as well who said a return is likely. The blame will then be squarely on the doorstep of the liars and charlatans who ran the Leave campaigns.

Just to add to those thinking the Tories will easily win, they have a massive problem with their image and Rees-Mogg lying down in parliament like the proceedings bored him and him taking on Dr Nicholl will not have gone unnoticed. I hope enough people will realize the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg care only for themselves. I mean they should have had enough warnings already you would think.

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1169677021565374465?s=20

That is the Chief Medical Officer standing by Dr Nicholl after he compared him to the anti-vaxxer who lost his medical license due to his use of misleading information to advance his point of view. Rees-Mogg did this under Parliamentary Privilege so he cannot be sued, but he was challenged by Dr Nicholl to tell it to his face outside of parliament. To no surprise this was not taken up by Rees-Mogg.

It won't make a difference to the Brexit zealots, as that line has long been crossed. Because they support brexit, a politician (or accountant or bricklayer or anything...) must know more about medicine than one of the nation's top neurosurgeons.

Shelga wrote: »

3 Brexiters, 3 Remainers on QT, all ripping into each other. 6 panelists is far too many, should be 3 or 4 in my opinion.

It's about as civilised as sea lion feeding time at the zoo, as you can imagine. Emily Thornberry raised incredibly valid concerns about food and medicine shortages in the case of a no deal Brexit, and was jeered and scoffed at aggressively by Kwarteng and Tice, both vile individuals.

What a toxic, horrible, brainwashed arena UK politics is at the moment.

It is a car crash and Bruce is out of her depth