Ireland v Wales 07/09/2019

lawred2 · 05-09-2019 04:21PM

aloooof wrote: »

I see your point. But realistically, they are they least meaningful collection of games that are played in any 4-year cycle. (Or, at a minimum, the results are the least meaningful from any group of games in any 4-year cycle).

Would you rather Ireland had beaten England in the 6 Nations or last Saturday week?

The world cup warm ups are clearly a farce.

But no Union is going to publicly denigrate them when they are going to produce full houses in Dublin, London and Cardiff..

aloooof · 05-09-2019 04:26PM

lawred2 wrote: »

The world cup warm ups are clearly a farce.

But no Union is going to publicly denigrate them when they are going to produce full houses in Dublin, London and Cardiff..

The attendance for Ireland Italy was far from a full house, was it maybe 30,000 max? I think they'd have gotten that attendance anyway, regardless of ranking points at stake.

lawred2 · 05-09-2019 04:28PM

aloooof wrote: »

The attendance for Ireland Italy was far from a full house, was it maybe 30,000 max? I think they'd have gotten that attendance anyway, regardless of ranking points at stake.

I wasn't really thinking about Italy. I'd expect a much better attendance this Saturday in Dublin.

They might get the same attendance regardless but I doubt unions are going to want to take the chance.

aloooof · 05-09-2019 04:30PM

lawred2 wrote: »

I wasn't really thinking about Italy. I'd expect a much better attendance this Saturday in Dublin.

They might get the same attendance regardless but I doubt unions are going to want to take the chance.

So would I, but I'd expect that anyway for the last warm-up game, and against Wales, before a RWC.

aloooof · 05-09-2019 04:45PM

Interestingly, World Rugby actually use the term "friendlies" themselves, from here which I'm surprised at:

Points exchanges are doubled during the World Cup Finals to recognise the unique importance of this event, but all other full international matches are treated the same, to be as fair as possible to countries playing a different mix of friendly and competitive matches across the world.

There are probably unintended consequences I haven't thought through, but I don't think attendance is one of them, given the timing of these games.

cavemeister · 05-09-2019 05:25PM

I was reading earlier that the Japanese are tracking a Typhoon that is on course to hit Tokyo the first week of the RWC - If matches get cancelled due to the storm, rugby rules state the game is a draw and both teams get 2 points - If this happens, there could be a massive impact i.e. NZ v Italy.

RE: This weekend, I reckon both teams will play to about 80% of ability to avoid injury - Dull match but Ireland to win by 5

thebaz · 05-09-2019 06:59PM

yerrahbah wrote: »

Hoping Kleyn has a stormer as a two fingered salute to certain members of the press.

Although unless he scores two tries, beats fifteen defenders and steals five lineouts then we will get the anonymous line thrown around

people , including the press, are totally justified to have an opinion on whether Kleyn selection is fair, is he more deserving of selection over Toner and Dillane , I too think not.
Apart from his selection , happy with team for Sat.

Henry Ford III · 06-09-2019 05:25AM

thebaz wrote: »

people , including the press, are totally justified to have an opinion on whether Kleyn selection is fair, is he more deserving of selection over Toner and Dillane , I too think not.
Apart from his selection , happy with team for Sat.

Having an opinion is all well and good. Realising the significance or otherwise of that opinion is also highly relevant.

For right or wrong Kleyn is selected and Toner and Dillane aren't.

No amount of posting here or elsewhere, however sincere, is going to change that.

Tikki Wang Wang · 06-09-2019 05:28AM

tototoe wrote: »

Seriously, who cares about BOD being dropped. He's such a complete pain in the hole as a pundit these days, he deserves less sympathy now than he did then and that wasn't very much.

It's 2019 FFS.

WHOOOOOSCH !

thebaz · 06-09-2019 08:19AM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Realising the significance or otherwise of that opinion is also highly relevant.

Don't get this bit - people are entitled to ther opinion of whether the selection of Kleyn is fair or not - simple as.

But I do agree that selection is made and opinions won't chnage that decision , maybe by airing opinions now, they might help with future strategy of selecting NIQ players over home-grown.

BoardsMember · 06-09-2019 08:24AM

I can't see the approach to selection ever changing from the coach picking his strongest possible team/squad. I don't see IRFU imposing more stringent NIQ criteria than that passed down from World Rugby. So I wouldn't expect a whole lot of change from the 3/5 year rule.

Cookiemunster · 06-09-2019 08:25AM

thebaz wrote: »

Don't get this bit - people are entitled to ther opinion of whether the selection of Kleyn is fair or not - simple as.

But I do agree that selection is made and opinions won't chnage that decision , maybe by airing opinions now, they might help with future strategy of selecting NIQ players over home-grown.

You can't select NIQ players. Kleyn, Stander and Aki are all IQ. There aren't many left to qualify under the current rules, but I can guarantee that future national coaches will continue to pick players who qualify to play on their ability above their place of origin.

thebaz · 06-09-2019 08:43AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

but I can guarantee that future national coaches will continue to pick players who qualify to play on their ability above their place of origin.

I understand that , but it doesn't make it right - every country is doing it too- France/Engalnd and NZ - the big countrys really shouldn't have to - that is my opinion and that of many others including Luke F.

sydthebeat · 06-09-2019 08:44AM

Der durk errr jerbs..

If you're good enough, you play. If you're not, you don't.

thebaz · 06-09-2019 08:46AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Der durk errr jerbs..

If you're good enough, you play. If you're not, you don't.

that will be great comfort to Dev and Dillane -

Sabre0001 · 06-09-2019 08:47AM

Lowe's comments not exactly overflowing with enthusiasm, but I've no doubt that he'll give 100% when he's called up: https://www.the42.ie/james-lowe-4796720-Sep2019/. Cracking player to have (despite hating that he's playing in blue

; what a signing, in his prime!)

baaba maal · 06-09-2019 09:12AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The maddest thing is NZ back to 1st despite not having played in three weeks. And England overtaking Wales despite not playing last weekend. The rankings are a joke.

I don't get this to be honest. Literally nobody had any problem with the rankings when NZ were maintaining a six point differential on the next best team year after year- it is only now that that differential has vanished that we are seeing how the system works. In a RWC year, with that backdrop, and a series of competitive games just prior to the tournament, you are going to get this volatility in the rankings. It really doesn't matter that it changes so often as whatever ranking system is adopted is at the mercy of the results. I quite like the fact that three or four different countries have briefly held it recently as this is a fair reflection of the competition between them.

Cookiemunster · 06-09-2019 09:16AM

thebaz wrote: »

I understand that , but it doesn't make it right - every country is doing it too- France/Engalnd and NZ - the big countrys really shouldn't have to - that is my opinion and that of many others including Luke F.

I've no problem with people having an issue. I'm not 100% comfortable with it myself, but I know the rules and I accept them.

Luke Fitz however has made an idiot of himself. They're are 3 qualified players out of 31. Two of them are from SA and only one of those two is likely to be in the first choice 23, yet he posts on twitter saying that we should be wearing SA jerseys.

The simple fact is it's not going to change. It'll happen with less regularity when the 5 year rules comes in, but it will continue to happen.

Faugheen · 06-09-2019 09:21AM

Luke Fitzgerald is the type of person I could imagine voting for Brexit.

His obsession with foreign players playing with the provinces is weird as f*ck, and it’s further highlighted by the Kleyn decision.

I’ve no issue with Kleyn being from South Africa, the issue I have is that I think Toner is a better choice. But alas.

Squidgy Black · 06-09-2019 09:29AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Luke Fitzgerald is the type of person I could imagine voting for Brexit.

His obsession with foreign players playing with the provinces is weird as f*ck, and it’s further highlighted by the Kleyn decision.

I’ve no issue with Kleyn being from South Africa, the issue I have is that I think Toner is a better choice. But alas.

One of the best responses I seen on Twitter to one of his rants was "when are you joining Gemma outside Google".

Cookiemunster · 06-09-2019 09:29AM

baaba maal wrote: »

I don't get this to be honest. Literally nobody had any problem with the rankings when NZ were maintaining a six point differential on the next best team year after year- it is only now that that differential has vanished that we are seeing how the system works. In a RWC year, with that backdrop, and a series of competitive games just prior to the tournament, you are going to get this volatility in the rankings. It really doesn't matter that it changes so often as whatever ranking system is adopted is at the mercy of the results. I quite like the fact that three or four different countries have briefly held it recently as this is a fair reflection of the competition between them.

Why would I care if NZ were no 1 or not? I actually don't care who's world no 1 or how many times it changes. It only counts (ridiculously) three years before a world cup when you need to be in the top 8 for the stupidly early world cup draw.

My issues are with the system where teams who haven't played in weeks can rise in the rankings and that Summer/Autumn tests and world cup warm ups have the same status as 6N/Rugby Championship games when it comes to ranking points. Thankfully though Pichot has simplifying the ranking system next on his list

D.Q · 06-09-2019 09:30AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Luke Fitzgerald is the type of person I could imagine voting for Brexit.

His obsession with foreign players playing with the provinces is weird as f*ck, and it’s further highlighted by the Kleyn decision.

I’ve no issue with Kleyn being from South Africa, the issue I have is that I think Toner is a better choice. But alas.

Luke Fitzgerald is an absolute clown.

So far up his own hole.

06-09-2019 10:09AM

thebaz wrote: »

Don't get this bit - people are entitled to ther opinion of whether the selection of Kleyn is fair or not - simple as.

Henry has been making a fair old effort recently to shut down any conversation he doesn't like the look of. Not sure what the point of a forum is if we can't discuss selection.

Henry Ford III · 06-09-2019 10:52AM

thebaz wrote: »

Don't get this bit - people are entitled to ther opinion of whether the selection of Kleyn is fair or not - simple as.

But I do agree that selection is made and opinions won't chnage that decision , maybe by airing opinions now, they might help with future strategy of selecting NIQ players over home-grown.

Entitled to hold an opinion - absolutely. Acknowledging the insignificance of holding that opinion - desirable.

Airing opinions will make no difference to future selection strategy.

Former Former · 06-09-2019 11:12AM

Kleyn, regardless of whether's he from South Africa or Southill, is an average enough player. Beirne is somewhere behind him.

Toner has almost 70 caps for Ireland accrued during our most successful period ever while he was competing with some top quality locks.

On paper, it should have been no contest.

So this means that either Toner is way below his marks in training or the coaches just decided that he's finished and he was never in with a shout in the first place (as Matt Williams has said). Personally, I think the latter, but it doesn't matter - he wasn't going to the RWC either way, so it's good that Kleyn is here to step in.

aloooof · 06-09-2019 11:16AM

Former Former wrote: »

So this means that either Toner is way below his marks in training or the coaches just decided that he's finished and he was never in with a shout in the first place (as Matt Williams has said). Personally, I think the latter, but it doesn't matter - he wasn't going to the RWC either way, so it's good that Kleyn is here to step in.

It's not an either or scenario tho. Surely it's far more likely that the coaches decided he wasn't in with a shout because he wasn't hitting his marks in training?

yerrahbah · 06-09-2019 11:22AM

thebaz wrote: »

people , including the press, are totally justified to have an opinion on whether Kleyn selection is fair, is he more deserving of selection over Toner and Dillane , I too think not.
Apart from his selection , happy with team for Sat.

Why is it not fair that Kleyn was selected?
Why is he not more deserving?

Kevski · 06-09-2019 11:23AM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Entitled to hold an opinion - absolutely. Acknowledging the insignificance of holding that opinion - desirable.

Airing opinions will make no difference to future selection strategy.

I’ve seen you post things along these lines before. It baffles me why you would come to a discussion forum and tell people that their opinions are insignificant.

Every person who posts here is aware that their opinions make no difference to selection strategy. The fact that you feel the need to highlight this is strange in itself. People are free to discuss as they like without you posting nonsense like this.

Henry Ford III · 06-09-2019 11:38AM

Kevski wrote: »

I’ve seen you post things along these lines before. It baffles me why you would come to a discussion forum and tell people that their opinions are insignificant.

Every person who posts here is aware that their opinions make no difference to selection strategy. The fact that you feel the need to highlight this is strange in itself. People are free to discuss as they like without you posting nonsense like this.

That's incorrect.

Henry Ford III · 06-09-2019 11:40AM

thebaz wrote: »

But I do agree that selection is made and opinions won't chnage that decision , maybe by airing opinions now, they might help with future strategy of selecting NIQ players over home-grown.

An example.

Ireland v Wales 07/09/2019

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