The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Between 96 and 2011 dubs played most games at Croke Park , population was big but weren’t winning all Ireland’s . No calls for dubs to be split then. Now People don’t like the fact that their team not winning and even worse the big bad dubs are winning. Same people of course who thought Kerry Kilkenny dominating was great even though they are not even from Kerry or Kilkenny

Yes exactly, exactly... Because unlike you lads, the rest of us dont mind if you have a few things in your favour, if that is what it takes for you to be in the shakeup and ultimatley making the game better then fine by us. The fact that it is gone too far that way and so needs recalibrating is obvious. However, unlike the rest of us, you have no interest in making the game better. The greater good doesnt feature on your radar. If the rest of the country had taken the attitude towards dublin that Dublin are displaying now, there would have been no extra money directed to dublin and no taxpayers money either. Dublin would have been left to their own devices and anyone querying it would have got the same sort of, frankly, self centred, small time attitude that you have just displayed.

Even now, it is only suggested that you split once. Both teams would still have 6 odd times the average population each, and both get to play in cp, so still loaded up with advantages. It is actually a sweet deal for dublin truth be told, but then, the rest of us dont mind that, as long as the thing is competitive, unlike yourselves.

Also, does it not stick in your neck a bit, that you can only beat kerry with 11 times their population and 17 times their funding? I dont mean that in a smart way, it is a genuine question. There must be dubs out there whose pride take a bashing at that and who cringe a bit when people talk about matching kerry.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Yes exactly, exactly... Because unlike you lads, the rest of us dont mind if you have a few things in your favour, if that is what it takes for you to be in the shakeup and ultimatley making the game better then fine by us. The fact that it is gone too far that way and so needs recalibrating is obvious. However, unlike the rest of us, you have no interest in making the game better. The greater good doesnt feature on your radar. If the rest of the country had taken the attitude towards dublin that Dublin are displaying now, there would have been no extra money directed to dublin and no taxpayers money either. Dublin would have been left to their own devices and anyone querying it would have got the same sort of, frankly, self centred, small time attitude that you have just displayed.

Even now, it is only suggested that you split once. Both teams would still have 6 odd times the average population each, and both get to play in cp, so still loaded up with advantages. It is actually a sweet deal for dublin truth be told, but then, the rest of us dont mind that, as long as the thing is competitive, unlike yourselves.

Also, does it not stick in your neck a bit, that you can only beat kerry with 11 times their population and 17 times their funding? I dont mean that in a smart way, it is a genuine question. There must be dubs out there whose pride take a bashing at that and who cringe a bit when people talk about matching kerry.

Have ye wrote the motion to Congress yet?

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It does make you wonder what they are actually spending it on. Like they have no fixed costs. Hotels and food are sponsored for them and they dont have to travel. Yet, they are the top spenders per game every year without fail. Mayo who have massive fixed costs and treat their teams relatively well, had to play almost double the number of games as they did before they managed to spend slightly more than them. Truely, I cant figure out what they spend it on.

Any links for all those sponsored hotel gigs plus the royalties for Aslan etc?

doc_17 wrote: »

Dublin were training down the country in the last few weeks. They had 2 coaches, an artic lorry and 4 jeeps with them. Takes some money to keep that show on the road.

People can say anything on the internet. I saw Mayo train with 4 coaches, 2 artic and 6 jeeps.

And would you split Dublin in 4 when north & south side teams dominate the championship?

As matter of interest was there every any debate about splitting Kerry during there previous years of dominance?

omega man wrote: »

But those Kerry and Kilkenny teams were naturally gifted with an abundance of talent whilst our lads (since 2011) are just genetically enhanced athletes doped up on cash...

Doped up on cash do you say?

More like hepped up on goofballs. Did you not see Jack leg it down to tunnel so he could get to the five Lamps and score some marching powder for the boys for second half?

Usually they'd have some in the doctor's bag

Great to see Kerry do well. I don't like seeing Dublin dominating but if we have finals as close as this then I'm pretty content. The only problem is that they beat all round them before the final and that doesn't work well in a championship format. Perhaps extend the round robin in some way to make sure we don't see Longford or Westmeath going out in the first round because of a Dublin draw.

gaffer91 wrote: »

The result of one game is irrelevant. .
.

Ok the result of one game is not enough for you.

What about these other ones? -

Hurling -

No league since 2011- no leinster since 2013 (even a final).
Beaten by Laois this year!

Football League -

Dublin beaten by Monaghan, Tyrone and Kerry. Lucky to win v the Rossies


Underage football -

U20 beaten by Cork this year

Minor beaten by Kildare in Leinster and hammered by Mayo in the QF this year.

No minor since 2012 no u20/u21 win for two years


Club football -

Dublin football champs beaten by -
St Brigids rosscommon 2013
Corofin Galway 2015
Rathnew Wicklow 2017
Mullinalaghta Longford this year


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Also if you watch the games dublin played this year in the championship this are clearly creaking Cork (former div3) should of had a few goals more against Dublin.

Mayo would have beaten Dublin if they had a few top forwards like Kerry - it took Dublin to play at thier optimum to beat Mayo in an incredible 15/20 spell.
Dublin looked very vunerable during periods of the game.

Even former div2 side Meath showed how Dublin could be contained they just did not have the forwards to finish the other half of the job and keep it going.

---

All of the above poke serious holes in the argument that finances = success in the gaa.
I would understand if it was soccer where players can be transferred left right and centre for 100's of millions - but these are amateur with jobs and families.

It is talented players, management skills, hard work and mental strength (as proven sunday and in many finals) these are the key to Dublin team without those they would be nothing.
It cannot be brought it is priceless.
These are GAA people who are striving for excellence to be as good as they can be.
As a GAA fan, Irish person and not just a Dub, I feel blessed to be alive to see it.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Oh, I'm in favour of splitting them into four from the off.
Kerry didn't have any unfair population advantages, home pitch advantages, financial doping. Dublin have all those things.
It's the unfair advantages they have that are the problem, not just the end results.

Dublin has advantages and disadvantages. Vast numbers of people with no knowledge or natural affinity to GAA, or Dublin GAA if resident in Dublin but supporting other counties.
The heartland of Irish soccer and rugby.
The cost of facilities provision, buying pitches far far higher in Dublin.

Other counties have their own pluses and minuses eg GAA being the natural first choice.
That doesnt make them unfair.

There is no financial doping in GAA. The term has been transplanted from soccer and stripped of all meaning. None of what Dublin has done is financial doping in this or any other sport.

Talk of splitting is fantasy stuff. Dublin will never allow themselves to be compelled to be split by the GAA. They would challenge such a malicious act to the courts and win.

@gormdubhgorm- all of this nonsense has already been dealt with earlier in this thread- why not just go back and read the replies? But to humour you, and educate you, I'm happy to reply one more time

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hurling -

No league since 2011- no leinster since 2013 (even a final).
Beaten by Laois this year!

Already debunked. They beat Galway this year as well- stop cherrypicking games. Dublin hurling is coming from a much lower base than the footballers, as has been explained to you already- have a read back to help understand this.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Football League -

Dublin beaten by Monaghan, Tyrone and Kerry. Lucky to win v the Rossies

The league, right. Dublin have won 4 All-Ireland's on the trot and you're trying to argue their senior inter-county team isn't dominant. Madness.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Underage football -

U20 beaten by Cork this year

Minor beaten by Kildare in Leinster and hammered by Mayo in the QF this year.

No minor since 2012 no u20/u21 win for two years

.

You made this argument earlier in the thread and it's already been debunked as well- have a read back. Dublin have won much more underage titles than before the funding started.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Club football -

Dublin football champs beaten by -
St Brigids rosscommon 2013
Corofin Galway 2015
Rathnew Wicklow 2017
Mullinalaghta Longford this year

Club football is different than inter-county, granted, but Dublin have still been more competitive and won more titles since the financial doping started in the mid-2000s than in the years before.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also if you watch the games dublin played this year in the championship this are clearly creaking Cork (former div3) should of had a few goals more against Dublin.

Mayo would have beaten Dublin if they had a few top forwards like Kerry - it took Dublin to play at thier optimum to beat Mayo in an incredible 15/20 spell.
Dublin looked very vunerable during periods of the game.

Even former div2 side Meath showed how Dublin could be contained they just did not have the forwards to finish the other half of the job and keep it going.

Dublin hammered Cork by 13 points, Mayo by 12 and Meath by 17- and you're using these games as an argument of competitiveness? Hilarious.

Being an utterly dominant team doesn't mean you have do dominate every minute of every game.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

All of the above poke serious holes in the argument that finances = success in the gaa.
I would understand if it was soccer where players can be transferred left right and centre for 100's of millions - but these are amateur with jobs and families.

Money matters in sport in terms of achieving success- it's actually incredible that I even have to argue this in the 21st century.

There are countless examples, in every sport, including the GAA where this is true.

What you've done is cherry picked some examples that don't even stand up to the most basic scrutiny and tried to argue this means Dublin aren't unfairly advantaged- it's a pathetically weak argument.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is talented players, management skills, hard work and mental strength (as proven sunday and in many finals) these are the key to Dublin team without those they would be nothing.
It cannot be brought it is priceless.
.

It is talented players, hard work, population advantages, financial doping and playing at home that are the keys to Dublin success.

Their success can be bought, it has been.

Even PED users have to work hard at the gym, in their chosen field etc- obviously I wouldn't accuse Dublin of using PEDs but their financial doping follows the same principle. The players still work hard but they are absolutely blessed with the money.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As a GAA fan, Irish person and not just a Dub, I feel blessed to be alive to see it.

You only feel blessed as a Dub because as your posts have shown, you are incredibly biased and blinkered. If it was any other county achieving this current level of success you would be absolutely disgusted because you are so pro-Dublin and anti every other county (if you weren't you would recognise the unfair advantages and want them equalised), even if they did it without the financial doping that Dublin have availed of.

As an Irish person and purported GAA fan, you should be disgusted at how the inter-county game of this great sport is being ruined by Dublin and their financial doping.

See how easy it was to put your tired arguments to bed once again? Please read this and reflect for once, don't just wade in with the same old debunked nonsense. I shouldn't even have to write this lengthy post because it's all already been explained on this thread, to you personally, you just choose not to comprehend it.

You have to love people who earnestly insist they would never accuse Dublin of using PEDs but just mention them anyway!

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The five in the 90's are listed in the article below.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/imports-are-making-the-natives-restless-in-kildare-26195208.html

My point in it was that McKenna was painting Kildare as whiter than white (excuse the pun) - as the victims Dubs fans with flags in a Clane pub etc.

But in reality they are not victims. Of call counties Kildare has a history of making teams from other counties endeavors. To do this they got a high profile manager from another county to bring these players in. It was done to an excessive level.
It was definitely going against the nature and intent of the GAA and in an underhanded/shadowy manner that caused a lot of disquiet. As a consequence it then led to the dominance of kildare in leinster for a short period and being a strong competitor outside leinster.

It was not the last time Kildare cynically worked around the rules of the gaa to get a player.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kildare-hurling-chief-lashes-transfer-farce-26872450.html

Seanie became the most high profile 'hurler' in Kildare for his minute on the pitch so he could get around the transfer rules.

If Dublin behaved in such an aggressive, shameless and blatant manner to get around GAA rules there would be uproar.

Yea Keane and Cahill were heavily involved in Kildares glory years as you suggested. 🙄

I've previously named several players from other counties who have played with Dublin. But maybe you couldn't make out the writing from that far up on your high horse.

Its only recently where some of your u21 panel was made up of players from Meath and Kildare players. Its might be hard to remember that from that gigantic pulpit.

And for the record there was uproar over the Johnson saga. And rightly so.

And Dublin have behaved in a disgraceful and aggressive manner too. Have you forgotten bite-gate and gouge-gate. Or was that all made too?

gaffer91 wrote: »

The population advantage has been unfair from the get-go. Just because they haven't historically taken full advantage doesn't mean it wasn't always unfair. It's got much worse over the years, Cork actually had a bigger population than Dublin when the GAA was founded.
Again, there's no point going around in this endless quote war style debates.
The facts are that Dublin have unfair population, funding and other advantages and this helps to win games and titles unfairly. That's all there is to this "debate".

Those arent facts. Dublins population is a fact. Its not possible for a fact to be fair or unfair.

Either Dublins population advantage is unfair and so are all the other population gaps between counties; or there is no unfairness to the differences in population.

Dublin's titles have come about through a process that is as fair as every other GAA title that has been won, and as deserved.

gaffer91 wrote: »

There are many unfair advantages and they've been detailed in this thread (and others) in some detail. I'm actually amazed somehow could be so blinkered as to not see them? They include funding, population, home stadium advantage among others.

The players are talented, but the money helps to find and develop them significantly more than would otherwise be possible.

Money matters in sport.

Population?

So if Cork play Louth they have an unfair advantage !

Funding ?

Any funding they have has to be spread incredibly thinly so much that population is a disadvantage.

Home stadium ?

It’s a facility that is able to facilitate the demand for tickets from supporters of them and the opposition. If It was in Cork would you be bemoaning them having it on their doorstep ? Has to be somewhere unless you can design a mobile stadium:eek:

What helps develop players up through the ages ?

Amateur volunteer coaches
Amateur but well run clubs
Parents (professional and full time)

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Because population is potential playing numbers. Just because a county is doing a relatively poor job of getting people to play, doesnt mean that will always be so, nor is it anybody elses fault but their own that these people do not play.
That is why the numbers used should be the total population

Grand theory that. We've less than 200 in our golf club but the county has a population of almost 200,000.

I must use your logic at our next AGM.