Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Akrasia wrote: »

It would have been very easy to question the legitimacy of that vote given the illegal campaigning of the two main anti EU campaigns. The biggest political donation in UK history bring under investigation as coming from an illegal source is a good place to start....

The leave campaign was full of lies and misinformation so the referendum vote should not be considered proper informed consent and should have been rerun

It's a pity the referendum wasn't binding. The courts would have thrown out the result for the numerous illegalities - the right wing press would have reacted with apoplectic rage to this of course, but the whole process would have been moved on.

Rory Stewart's reaction was notable:

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1168266343793221632

briany wrote:

I believe Dominic Grieve has already been threatened with deselection by his local constituency. Given his relative outspokenness on Brexit, his chances of holding his seat are pretty low, so he doesn't have much to lose by voting his conscience.

He has been saying this for a while.

Tories who are deselected could stand as Independent Tories surely?

Well they should try anyway.

By deselecting them, he's majority will be gone in Parliament

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That fella Rory Stewart is something else. He had an interview with James O'Brien on the Full Disclosure podcast and I confess I hung on to his every word.

He will go far. But it may take a while.

He's in the wrong party. He's way too sensible and moderate to be a Tory.

Boris is unable to stop the leaks from disgruntled Tory MPs.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-crisis-govt-analysis-suggests-chaos-at-dover-in-event-of-no-deal-departure-11800263

This report was compiled over the last fortnight and its assumptions are based around current government policy.

The government refused to comment.

maebee wrote: »

Boris is unable to stop the leaks from disgruntled Tory MPs.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-crisis-govt-analysis-suggests-chaos-at-dover-in-event-of-no-deal-departure-11800263

I'm taking that with a pinch of salt.. Sky News is notorious for its rabid anti-Brexit line and the last I heard, the Government were prepared to wave lorries through if necessary.

None of our hauliers has expressed any concern at present.

Parliament can arrest and imprison the PM if he refuses to implement their ruling/law. They have their own Sergeant at Arms and prison, I think.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

I'm taking that with a pinch of salt.. Sky News is notorious for its rabid anti-Brexit line and the last I heard, the Government were prepared to wave lorries through if necessary.

None of our hauliers has expressed any concern at present.

And how are you waving Lorries through to France when the stoppage will be at Calais? If I have it correct the vehicles will be checked in France and thus there will be a wait for ferries to be offloaded, which means ferries cannot be loaded or leave the UK. So the problem is not waving them through in Dover, it is having to wait for them to clear in France before they leave the UK.

As for the hauliers not reporting any concern,

Rod McKenzie, managing director of policy and public affairs at the Road Haulage Association, told Sky News: "The sort of delays that Sky News is reporting at the moment would be crippling to many sections of the British industry and the supply chain on which we all depend.

"For example the things that we get in the shops, perishables, foods and so forth, we simply cannot afford to have them sitting in a traffic jam for 48 hours.

"And the same is true for Britain's manufacturing industry and so many parts of the economy. We must keep any delay to an absolute minimum to try and keep the short straights, Dover, Calais and all the other ports working as efficiently as possible to ensure our economic future."

As for the Brexit Party, the problem Johnson has is that they will only back them in a pact if they go for no-deal. If it looks like they will pivot to the WA, as many have said he would, then they will oppose him. Even if he gets it through somehow and calls an election, Farage will run against him on a ticket that he has betrayed the electorate and it isn't really Brexit.

The Withdrawal Agreement is exiting the EU in law, but it doesn't end Brexit. They will still be talking about Brexit for at least the transition and probably longer.

Enzokk wrote: »

And how are you waving Lorries through to France when the stoppage will be at Calais? If I have it correct the vehicles will be checked in France and thus there will be a wait for ferries to be offloaded, which means ferries cannot be loaded or leave the UK. So the problem is not waving them through in Dover, it is having to wait for them to clear in France before they leave the UK.

Right, so when the article says:

Presently, vehicles from EU countries face a delay of around two minutes.

Any delay such as those suggested by the analysis could lead to shortages of goods on shelves and medical supplies in hospitals.

It's talking about the trucks travelling to France, many of which are empty anyway because we import far more goods from the EU than we send there.

maebee wrote: »

It doesn't matter which news outlet it was obtained by. The fact is that it is an analysis by Boris Johnson's government.

I haven't seen any confirmation of that yet.

The Yellowhammer leak was claimed to be genuine but this article says that:

Previously, ministers sought to dismiss concerns over leaked documents, especially those related to so-called Operation Yellowhammer preparations for no-deal, as they were written under the May government and apparently did not adequately reflect the increased preparations under the new administration.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Right, so when the article says:



It's talking about the trucks travelling to France, many of which are empty anyway because we import far more goods from the EU than we send there.

I am not sure, the problem will be in the UK for trucks leaving to the EU and for trucks coming in. I am no expert, but when two people within the industry basically confirms the same concerns then it would be something to try and hand wave their concerns away. Another quote from the article,

Kevin Green, communications director of the Freight Transport Association, told Sky News: "We have been asking those questions for some time without any response so our concern is that we're going to get much closer.

"And a lot of these issues are caught up in the negotiations and probably won't get agreed until very close to the deadline and then there clearly won't be any time to respond, and delays and impacts will be very worst of the estimates."

You said no hauliers reported any concerns and yet in the article there is quotes from two people in the industry registering their concern. Do you see the problem isn't who is reporting the story but the contents it contains?

Water John wrote: »

Parliament can arrest and imprison the PM if he refuses to implement their ruling/law. They have their own Sergeant at Arms and prison, I think.

I know of no such provision. Please give your sources for this and tell me when this supposed power has been exercised.

Enzokk wrote: »

I am not sure, the problem will be in the UK for trucks leaving to the EU and for trucks coming in. I am no expert, but when two people within the industry basically confirms the same concerns then it would be something to try and hand wave their concerns away. Another quote from the article,



You said no hauliers reported any concerns and yet in the article there is quotes from two people in the industry registering their concern. Do you see the problem isn't who is reporting the story but the contents it contains?

No, I said:

None of our hauliers has expressed any concern at present.

The company I work for imports goods and materials from the EU and I have spoken to them to ask about any difficulties they anticipate. These are working hauliers.