Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

PeadarCo

ath262 wrote:

from Sunday Telegraph, Suella Braverman of the 'Alternative Arrangements Commission' aka the magical Unicorn Factory, is still pushing ideas for replacing the backstop already rejected during the original negotiations with the EU. Including risking our single market status with some sort of 'all-island regulatory area'

This is an issue for Johnson. His own Brexit supporters are undermining him. It's one thing saying you need to get rid of the backstop, however it's another thing when his own supporters see that as just the start. It destroys any chance of the backstop going because the everyone knows a bigger change is desired which suits no one. I know Johnson has complained about remainers making a deal harder. However it says a lot when he can't even keep his own side on message.

SeaBreezes

PeadarCo wrote: »

This is an issue for Johnson. His own Brexit supporters are undermining him. It's one thing saying you need to get rid of the backstop, however it's another thing when his own supporters see that as just the start. It destroys any chance of the backstop going because the everyone knows a bigger change is desired which suits no one. I know Johnson has complained about remainers making a deal harder. However it says a lot when he can't even keep his own side on message.

I dunno, Ireland is the uks fifth largest trading partner and the first of those five it makes a profit on. I can see why it is important to the UK to try and keep us as trading partners we however Like being protected by EU standards.

trellheim

The backstop exists until better alternative arrangements are agreed to by both sides.

It is specifically written into the WA that both sides wish to find an alternative and will work to do so.

****************************

My view today : Why has Johnson NOT said "I can get a deal if Backstop is removed, I have the numbers to get a ratification through" .

-> All the EU does if this is not clear "well if its not the backstop itll be something else" ....

Now, Johnson must know this .... so therefore why has he not said it
*******************************

jochenstacker

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For those who don't watch, he makes several points.


1) Gordon Brown might have been spoofing or wrong about the EU making an offer to extend A50 next week


2) BUT Boris immediately threatening to deselect any Tory MP that votes for an extension means HE believes a vote on an extension is coming.


3) If the EU offer an extension and Parliament votes to accept it, they don't need Boris to physically ask for it - Parliament is sovereign, if they vote for it, it happens no matter what Boris says.


4) If an extension happens and Boris ejects even 2 rebels from the party, he loses his majority.


5) If an election is called, the Brexit party will take a chunk out of the Tories for failing to deliver Brexit.

It's a very long shot and I haven't heard anything about it on German media, so I'm sceptical.
It just would be too funny.
Or maybe it got buried, AfD just took 25% in Sachsen and Brandenburg, bit of a gloomy atmosphere here.

lawred2

Next thing for the chop is the CTA no doubt. I don't believe that anything is sacrosanct for this lot any more.

PropJoe10

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Here you go. He starts 25 minutes in.

Edit: he wants the EU to "Come to heel". Christ almighty some of these guys are on another planet.

Is that Andrew Bridgen? He's absolutely shocking. Still living in British Empire land.

lawred2

The undemocratic CTA. Sure who voted for that?

trellheim

The latest wheeze : ( off Darren Grimes' twitter)

Assuming an A50 extension request forced through the Parliament, this will force Boris to ask for an extension request.

Right ... everyone listening at the back ?

THEN , as the EU28 ( !) must all agree to it, he will refuse .....

I swear to fk

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_


( yes I know I shouldnt read Darren Grimes but know your enemy and all that )

briany

trellheim wrote: »

The latest wheeze : ( off Darren Grimes' twitter)

Assuming an A50 extension request forced through the Parliament, this will force Boris to ask for an extension request.

Right ... everyone listening at the back ?

THEN , as the EU28 ( !) must all agree to it, he will refuse .....

I swear to fk

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_


( yes I know I shouldnt read Darren Grimes but know your enemy and all that )

In that case, Boris should just stand up and tell parliament, "I don't care what you voted for."

is_that_so

lawred2 wrote: »

Next thing for the chop is the CTA no doubt. I don't believe that anything is sacrosanct for this lot any more.

It actually originally goes back to the 1920s, it's reciprocal, so that's very doubtful. Johnson has said it will not change. A memorandum of understanding was signed in May this year.

L1011

is_that_so wrote: »

It actually originally goes back to the 1920s, it's reciprocal, so that's very doubtful. Johnson has said it will not change. A memorandum of understanding was signed in May this year.

The current thing of referring to "May's no mandate government", forgetting that Johnson has even less of a mandate, can and will be used to renege on that sort of agreement

lawred2

is_that_so wrote: »

It actually originally goes back to the 1920s, it's reciprocal, so that's very doubtful. Johnson has said it will not change. A memorandum of understanding was signed in May this year.

Johnson said it will not change

Right so..

VinLieger

I asked the question a few days ago when it seemed somewhat mote outlandish but now seriously what happens if they pass an extension vote or something else he doesnt like but he simply refuses to act on it?

is_that_so

lawred2 wrote: »

Johnson said it will not change

Right so..

I think it's safe on the grounds that he really doesn't need any more battles to fight and that it was something they agreed not the EU. It's not the same "foreigner" issue and we're a more "acceptable" one. Unwinding it would upset 100K people here never mind a much larger number in the UK.

ath262

from Sky News (also mentioned on C4 News) PM cancels Monday meeting with Brexit 'Gaukeward squad'

the excuse being given is a "diary clash", this meeting was supposed to reassure the rebels on progress on a deal with EU

CelticRambler

Heyyyy - no deal, no worries! The UK government is about to embark on a £100m publicity campaign. Free mugs and t-shirts for everyone.

£100 million is an awful lot to spend on new bolts for those stable doors ... :rolleyes:

BorneTobyWilde

If there was a General Erection surely more people would vote for the parties that campaign to Remain? It's just that they would vote partly for Lib Dems, Labour, and other remain parties. The Brexit Party would win a lot of seats, more than any individual Remain Party, but not as many as the combined Remain Parties .

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

lawred2

CelticRambler wrote: »

Heyyyy - no deal, no worries! The UK government is about to embark on a £100m publicity campaign. Free mugs and t-shirts for everyone.

£100 million is an awful lot to spend on new bolts for those stable doors ... :rolleyes:

How much is left of that 350m per week for the NHS?

A lot of juicy contracts being drawn up with no oversight whatsoever as far as I can tell.

PropJoe10

ath262 wrote: »

from Sky News (also mentioned on C4 News) PM cancels Monday meeting with Brexit 'Gaukeward squad'

the excuse being given is a "diary clash", this meeting was supposed to reassure the rebels on progress on a deal with EU

I can only assume that this is because Boris doesn't have any idea about either how he's going to deliver a deal, how he's going to propose to get rid of the backstop, or why he's ploughing on with no deal. Easier to avoid that to have to answer difficult questions that he clearly has no clue about.

VinLieger

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If there was a General Erection surely more people would vote for the parties that campaign to Remain? It's just that they would vote partly for Lib Dems, Labour, and other remain parties. The Brexit Party would win a lot of seats, more than any individual Remain Party, but not as many as the combined Remain Parties .

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

Theres alot to take into account, if brexit hasnt been delivered then yes the brexit party probably splits or steals the tories vote unless they agree on a non compete campaign. I cant see the tories agreeing to that so with first past the post this could mean a remainer majority if the brexit vote is split but nothing is guaranteed as its still seems that thanks to brexit fatigue that leavers are more motivated and active than remainers so nobody really can say what a GE would look like fought on Brexit.

Headshot

The recent Welsh by election should be the blue print for how the remaining parties need to work together and make sure that other remaining parties do not dilute the votes.

I just couldnt see the likes of the Conservatives or the Brexit party doing this and therefor their votes will be weakended

VinLieger

Headshot wrote: »

The recent Welsh by election should be the blue print for how the remaining parties need to work together and make sure that other remaining parties do not dilute the votes.

I just couldnt see the likes of the Conservatives or the Brexit party doing this and therefor their votes will be weakended

Farage has suggested it however I can't see the tories agreeing or the brexit party being competant or level headed enough to not screw it up on day one

Spanish Eyes

There is far too much complacency on the Remain side. They should be manning the barricades and blocking roads etc. at this travesty of democracy (prorogation).

Their lack of fight back is enabling the current sh it storm by Cummings et al.

What are they afraid of?

woejus

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If there was a General Erection surely ....

Is that a 2nd Referendum in your pants, or are you just glad to see me...

Mirafiori

VinLieger wrote: »

Farage has suggested it however I can't see the tories agreeing or the brexit party being competant or level headed enough to not screw it up on day one

I could see the Brexit Party volunteering not to run candidates against pro-brexit Conservative MPs. I can't see the Conservatives opting to give the Brexit party a clear run in any constituency, even strong Labour seats where the Labour MP is anti-Brexit. It would be very damaging to any local organisation, and it should be a principle that a prospective government would run a candidate in every constituency.

Funnily enough, though, the main parties never run candidates in Northern Ireland. Maybe the Brexit party could run some candidates there.

sabat

is_that_so wrote: »

It actually originally goes back to the 1920s, it's reciprocal, so that's very doubtful. Johnson has said it will not change. A memorandum of understanding was signed in May this year.

Not least because there are still hundreds of (Irish) people here who were born in the UK as it was then. Yet another legal circle that can't be squared...

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Next thing for the chop is the CTA no doubt. I don't believe that anything is sacrosanct for this lot any more.

No Chance, the Irish are not considered as "foreigners" by most people in Britain, they are just like the Scots or the Welsh (from another part of the UK).

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No Chance, the Irish are not considered as "foreigners" by most people in Britain, they are just like the Scots or the Welsh (from another part of the UK).

Yeah but we've been very uppity of late. Maybe we need a smackdown.

FrancieBrady

UUP trying to steal some ground of the DUP. Still sounds like 'trust us' to me.

A former Ulster Unionist Party leader has proposed the creation of a new North-South ministerial body as a means of monitoring and regulating trade across the Border after Brexit.

Lord (Reg) Empey has also proposed as an alternative to the backstop that the British government would indemnify the European Union against single market infractions.

He further proposed the creation of a new offence in British law for knowingly transporting non-compliant goods to the EU.

Lord Empey said he was putting forward the proposals in good faith in a bid to break the stalemate over the backstop.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-uup-suggests-proposals-to-replace-irish-backstop-1.4004058?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&fbclid=IwAR0jfBeHp6vOlM3mN8CBSTMbie0GAc7LLVBUE5udvEm0gF_MdWY7mFmpUZg

prawnsambo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

UUP trying to steal some ground of the DUP. Still sounds like 'trust us' to me.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-uup-suggests-proposals-to-replace-irish-backstop-1.4004058?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&fbclid=IwAR0jfBeHp6vOlM3mN8CBSTMbie0GAc7LLVBUE5udvEm0gF_MdWY7mFmpUZg

Mad how they still don't understand what they're dealing with. Everything would be a single market infraction.