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The death knell of the Irish Language

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Once Mary Lou McDonalds & Michelle O'Neill get their Irish Language act through up North, then the whole island will be fluent within a few years ;)

    ....mind you, I'm not sure if either of them can speak it?

    In fairness the Irish Language Act just goes to show just how silly and ridiculous people can be over nothing more than which sounds are made to communicate.

    The Act itself is silly, trivial and regressive, surely all that matters in the Assembly is that everybody actually speaks a common language, why are they so worried over a bloody secondary language???

    And this nonsense has kept the Assemby suspended since January 2017.......if ever you needed proof that humans are idiots/crazy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    In fairness the Irish Language Act just goes to show just how silly and ridiculous people can be over nothing more than which sounds are made to communicate.

    The Act itself is silly, trivial and regressive, surely all that matters in the Assembly is that everybody actually speaks a common language, why are they so worried over a bloody secondary language???

    And this nonsense has kept the Assemby suspended since January 2017.......if ever you needed proof that humans are idiots/crazy.

    Your desire to see people as robots is really quite strange. Language is important becasue people deem it to be so. You remind me of the man that came up with and sold Soylent food replacement paste because he felt that a normal diet was "innefficient". He could not understand peoples attachment to a varied and interesting cuisine. He was obsessed with an intirely functional view of food, and you seem to have the same attitude to language. The vast majority of people however have a very different attitude and you will have to learn to live with this. It is very arrogant indeed to say that others are idiots/crazy because they do not share your strange point of view.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    Your desire to see people as robots is really quite strange. Language is important becasue people deem it to be so. You remind me of the man that came up with and sold Soylent food replacement paste because he felt that a normal diet was "innefficient". He could not understand peoples attachment to a varied and interesting cuisine. He was obsessed with an intirely functional view of food, and you seem to have the same attitude to language. The vast majority of people however have a very different attitude and you will have to learn to live with this. It is very arrogant indeed to say that others are idiots/crazy because they do not share your strange point of view.

    Robots? Don't believe I said anything about robots at all. Am I making my own points here or are you making them for me? Please stay on point.

    I love diversity, particularily when it comes to food, big foodie me, I'll try anything.

    Never said anybody was stupid/crazy for not sharing the same view as me (again putting words in my mouth, it's hilarious), want to be pretty exceptional circumstances for me to say that anyway.

    But to suspend an entire Assembly for over 2.5 years over a language, that's pretty fúckin ridiculous on all sides!

    Ps, why is my point of view "strange", yet it seems your suggesting that the views of others should be respected. Bit hypocritical, if that's what you're suggesting?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Robots? Don't believe I said anything about robots at all. Am I making my own points here or are you making them for me? Please stay on point.

    I love diversity, particularily when it comes to food, big foodie me, I'll try anything.

    Never said anybody was stupid/crazy for not sharing the same view as me (again putting words in my mouth, it's hilarious), want to be pretty exceptional circumstances for me to say that anyway.

    But to suspend an entire Assembly for over 2.5 years over a language, that's pretty fúckin ridiculous on all sides!

    Ps, why is my point of view "strange", yet it seems your suggesting that the views of others should be respected. Bit hypocritical, if that's what you're suggesting?

    You’re stating that language should be an irrelevance while also saying you love diverse food then if language is so irrelevant you fail to wonder why a certain faction up there are so threatened by a language. As it somehow threatens their identity. Their words.

    Can’t find or discern your stance on this at all tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    On the other hand, if SF do get the Irish language act passed (before they allow) the assembly to resume, would many converse in Irish when it was back in session?
    And what of the rest of the assembly who don't speak Irish, Mary Lou, Michelle O'Neill included.....

    I would have thought the best way for SF to get their Irish act though would be (inside Stormont) with a little help from the SDLP and the alliance Party.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    On the other hand, if SF do get the Irish language act passed (before they allow) the assembly to resume, would many converse in Irish when it was back in session?
    And what of the rest of the assembly who don't speak Irish, Mary Lou, Michelle O'Neill included.....

    I would have thought the best way for SF to get their Irish act though would be (inside Stormont) with a little help from the SDLP and the alliance Party.

    They already passed a vote in the assembly supporting an ILA, the DUP blocked it with a petition of concern.

    An Irish language act was promissed in the Belfast and St Andrews agreemernts, it has never been delivered because the UK Government has decided that it is a devolved issue and the DUP have abused the petition of concern to block it. I don't see how anyone can expect the institutions to function when the terms of the agreements that set them up remain unfulfilled and are being blocked in bad faith by one of the parties to those agreements.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    You’re stating that language should be an irrelevance while also saying you love diverse food then if language is so irrelevant you fail to wonder why a certain faction up there are so threatened by a language. As it somehow threatens their identity. Their words.

    Can’t find or discern your stance on this at all tbh.

    Well language certainly isn't irrelevant, it's a great way to communicate.....provided of course the people communicating speak a common language, otherwise things get a bit confusing.

    Wouldn't it be great/convenient if everybody on earth were able to speak a common language.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    You’re stating that language should be an irrelevance while also saying you love diverse food then if language is so irrelevant you fail to wonder why a certain faction up there are so threatened by a language. As it somehow threatens their identity. Their words.

    Nationalists generally tie language to national identity, intensifying the association when their sense of identity is threatened. No surprise then that the Irish language has become a battleground in the North, or that one of Donald Trump's first acts as president was to delete the Spanish version of the White House website. Those who believe that a certain language is linked to the "soul of a nation" and that other languages are offensive interlopers (or whatever variant of that rhetoric they've imbibed) are likely to become impassioned whenever the topic crops up.

    That said, Irish nationalists are often in an odd position of championing a "national language" that relatively few Irish people speak fluently, if at all. In the 2016 Census, 70 percent of the population reported that they can't speak or never speak Irish. Just 1.7 percent of people use it daily outside the education system. So even for ardent Gaelgoirs, most of their actual lived life is conducted through the medium of English.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Wouldn't it be great/convenient if everybody on earth were able to speak a common language.

    It would be amazing, you could go anywhere and talk to anybody and never feel felt out of a conversation again


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You’re stating that language should be an irrelevance while also saying you love diverse food then if language is so irrelevant you fail to wonder why a certain faction up there are so threatened by a language. As it somehow threatens their identity. Their words.

    Can’t find or discern your stance on this at all tbh.

    In fairness, while I'm all for languages and expression, there are times when a language needs to be practical.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Well language certainly isn't irrelevant, it's a great way to communicate.....provided of course the people communicating speak a common language, otherwise things get a bit confusing.

    Wouldn't it be great/convenient if everybody on earth were able to speak a common language.

    So you want to go on holiday and have the staff serving you to speak the language you do.


    You’re not even funny you sound like like brits that go on holiday to Spain and complain there’s too many foreigners and too much bloody foreign food


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    So you want to go on holiday and have the staff serving you to speak the language you do.

    It would be nice to be able to ask them about the area in a common language and also talking to locals would be more fun if your shared the same language. I accept it can't happen without learning on your side and that's ok but a common language would make for a more enjoyable time


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    So you want to go on holiday and have the staff serving you to speak the language you do.


    You’re not even funny you sound like like brits that go on holiday to Spain and complain there’s too many foreigners and too much bloody foreign food

    Nope, wrong again hahaha

    I said a common language (infact I actually said it twice in the comment you responded to), I never said they should speak 'my language'. Did you see where I said common language twice? I'll accept your apology in advance :-)

    I love your responses, I never know how you're going to twist my words next. Lets see what rabbits you pull out of the hat this time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Nope, wrong again hahaha

    I said a common language (infact I actually said it twice in the comment you responded to), I never said they should speak 'my language'. Did you see where I said common language twice? I'll accept your apology in advance :-)

    I love your responses, I never know how you're going to twist my words next. Lets see what rabbits you pull out of the hat this time.

    Non answer isn’t an answer.


    I’ll ask again. You ignored it earlier.

    Chinese is the coming language and their economy is about to dominate the world.

    Are you ok learning Chinese?
    One world.

    All speaking one language. Does it matter the language it is?

    It’s going to be Chinese.

    You up for it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Non answer isn’t an answer.


    I’ll ask again. You ignored it earlier.

    Chinese is the coming language and their economy is about to dominate the world.

    Are you ok learning Chinese?
    One world.

    All speaking one language. Does it matter the language it is?

    It’s going to be Chinese.

    You up for it?

    Hahaha there you go again, there wasn't even any question marks in your previous post, or did I miss one?

    Haha this is genuinely entertaining, you have some imagination. Which question of yours did I ignore today?

    Yep sure chinese, why not man, I'm up for it, whatever works.

    Now see look I did you the courtesy of answering your question and I didn't twist anything you said either. That's how decent people behave.

    Lets see will you answer my question:

    Did you see where I said "common language" twice in the one post earlier as opposed to my language?

    .......I get the feeling I won't be disappointed :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,072 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Non answer isn’t an answer.


    I’ll ask again. You ignored it earlier.

    Chinese is the coming language and their economy is about to dominate the world.

    Are you ok learning Chinese?
    One world.

    All speaking one language. Does it matter the language it is?

    It’s going to be Chinese.

    You up for it?

    While I'd be all up for learning Chinese, the Chinese are learning English at a ferocious rate, and soon there will be more English speakers in China than in the "western" world (currently estimated at 250million and rising with a working knowledge of the language)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    English is the language of the web and the business world,
    millions of asians are learning chinese,
    it would help our economy if 50 per cent of students studied a modern language.
    French, german , or spanish.
    Maybe give 70 extra points if you get a c or b in leaving cert in a modern
    language.China is not going to invade britain or the uk,
    they just want us to buy their products.
    Its hard to buy tv,s or some pc,s or iphones without buying one made in china .
    The super powers are now china ,america,
    europe,
    theres no chance of major wars like world war 2 .
    There may be trade wars or regional wars like syria vs iran
    .
    china does not need us to learn chinese,
    just buy all the pc,s ,laptop,s , phones we make.
    Irish is like a legacy app, like windows xp, its no longer useful or relevant
    to most young people .
    It will be spoken by a minority and it will continue to decline.
    The decline of rural ireland is not good news for the prospects of the vitality of the irish language.
    Theres probably young people out there who do not know what
    myspace is .
    It was the no 1 social media website before facebook came along.
    It closed down a few years ago
    if an app or subject is no longer used or liked by young people
    it is doomed to a slow decline .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Upforthematch


    riclad wrote: »
    Irish is like a legacy app, like windows xp, its no longer useful or relevant
    to most young people .
    It will be spoken by a minority and it will continue to decline.
    The decline of rural ireland is not good news for the prospects of the vitality of the irish language.
    Theres probably young people out there who do not know what
    myspace is .
    It was the no 1 social media website before facebook came along.
    It closed down a few years ago
    if an app or subject is no longer used or liked by young people
    it is doomed to a slow decline .

    Go way out of it with all the negativity.

    Comparing irish to windows xp? That's a new one. Was there long before it and will be there long after it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,584 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    With brexit a lot of our future is now more distinctly European. Learning German or French etc is going to be much more vital.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    With brexit a lot of our future is now more distinctly European. Learning German or French etc is going to be much more vital.

    Who know for certain? The Eurozone is the slowest growing region in the world and has been for quite a long time. With the crisis in Italian politics at the moment, who knows what way the EU will go.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Who know for certain? The Eurozone is the slowest growing region in the world and has been for quite a long time. With the crisis in Italian politics at the moment, who knows what way the EU will go.

    You’re switching back to complaining about Europe now Jan? It was catholic teachers hitting you just a few weeks ago


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    You’re switching back to complaining about Europe now Jan? It was catholic teachers hitting you just a few weeks ago

    Naw, catholic teachers are / were grand, but as with all teachers and all groups of people you get the odd bad one. You would know nothing about that of course.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Naw, catholic teachers are / were grand, but as with all teachers and all groups of people you get the odd bad one. You would know nothing about that of course.

    Move the posts desperately all you want. Your own posting history tells its own story.
    I don’t understand your second statement. But I’m sure you’ll elaborate and share with the room


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    For all those posters who moaned about “not another thread of the alarming decline of spoken Irish” it certainly has generated a lot of debate, if much of this debate has been tit for tat spats, more heat than light.

    A couple of points: someone mentioned the lack of a written record of Irish literature. My understanding is that nearly all Irish folklore and poetry in music in times past was an oral tradition, because very few Irish speakers in an impoverished 18th and 19th century rural Ireland could read or write.

    Secondly - the long-standing belief that the majority of Irish spoke English until the famine is incorrect. I remember a historical geography lecturer when I was an undergrad in college teaching us that the large-scale shift from Irish to English speaking was much more gradual and took place largely between the 1650s, after Cromwell’s scorched Earth campaign, spreading out from the Pale and provincial towns, acelerating after 1750 and by the 1850s Ireland had become largely English speaking, as the aftermath of the famine was in full effect.

    English was an urban language and as the rural Irish poured in the Dublin and the other towns, they lost their Irish.

    When I was in Galway last week I was in the Galway museum and there was the statue of the Galwegian Irish language poet Padraig O’Connaire. The statue used to be outdoors on Eyre Square but was decapitated in 1999. Of note in reading about the statue and the poet was the total zeal Eamonn deValera had in enforcing his warped version of Irish revisionist culture on the newly independent fledgling State, with O’Connaire playing a key role in this movement.

    If everyday Irish is to be saved or revived properly, a completely radical rethink is needed as the legacy of the decades of enforced teaching to generations of schoolchildren and the cultural snobbery often associated with the language which has alienated many people.

    Look at Wales, spoken Welsh is in pretty rude health and Wales has been highly Anglicised for a lot longer than Ireland. We could learn lessons from Wales.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    I think Fine Gael don't care about the Irish language one bit. Perhaps Fianna Fail might do something? They did bring in the Language Act in 2003.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    But what has the Official Languages Act actually achieved over the past 16 years?

    It's essentially a "jobs for the Gaelgoirs" piece of legislation. It has done little to actually preserve the language.

    How many people do you know who have read all approx 270 pages of the Lisbon Treaty? Then ask yourself how many people have read the entire Lisbon Treaty in Irish. Is paying to translate the Lisbon Treaty for a handful of readers really doing anything to improve the state of the Irish language?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    But what has the Official Languages Act actually achieved over the past 16 years?

    It's essentially a "jobs for the Gaelgoirs" piece of legislation. It has done little to actually preserve the language.

    How many people do you know who have read all approx 270 pages of the Lisbon Treaty? Then ask yourself how many people have read the entire Lisbon Treaty in Irish. Is paying to translate the Lisbon Treaty for a handful of readers really doing anything to improve the state of the Irish language?

    Once again. Every single piece of European legislation is translated into the 27 other languages of the member states. Probably set down in Braille too.

    What’s your point?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Curious, I wonder is EU legislation translated into Welsh?......which is very widely spoken (when compared to Irish).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Once again. Every single piece of European legislation is translated into the 27 other languages of the member states. Probably set down in Braille too.

    What’s your point?

    My point, which I thought was obvious, is that translating legislation does nothing whatsoever to preserve or advance the Irish language.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    But what has the Official Languages Act actually achieved over the past 16 years?

    It's essentially a "jobs for the Gaelgoirs" piece of legislation. It has done little to actually preserve the language.

    How many people do you know who have read all approx 270 pages of the Lisbon Treaty? Then ask yourself how many people have read the entire Lisbon Treaty in Irish. Is paying to translate the Lisbon Treaty for a handful of readers really doing anything to improve the state of the Irish language?
    It is a fair point you make. I have no real issue with "jobs for the Gaelgoirs" type legislation or initiatives even though I am not really an Irish speaker (just the cupla focail from school).

    I'm not really too sure what can be done to improve the Gaeltacht. To be honest many rural areas and counties are struggling these days including my own. It really depends on the community themselves and the language groups etc. I know a few Irish speakers and they hate Fine Gael, see them as neglecting the language. I think Conradh na Gaeilge and other lobby groups usually tell supporters to vote for anyone but Fine Gael.


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