The Brazilian Rainforest?

Graces7 · 28-08-2019 12:46PM

careless sherpa wrote: »

Indeed, but bogs are a massive carbon trap and stopping the industrial stripping of peat like that is something that could happen immediately and have an immediate impact. The fact that it continues does not auger well

agree totally, OK?OK!

Danzy · 28-08-2019 12:47PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Too many people eating red meat apparently is the problem.

There's not much we can do.

The EU dictate environmental restrictions for European farmers and consumers, then propose the Mercosur deal with Brazil and similar when they knew rainforest burning would be encouraged by the deal.

Much like phasing out single use plastics, we need to phase out our dependence on anything that comes from the Amazon rainforest.

Not that counties like China will give a damn, or the US!

Grass fed beef, as we do, is sustainable, as much as any food is, meanwhile the Amazon is being burnt for Soya production*, encouraged by the EU Mercosour deal which also rewards Brazilian beef which operates with no enforced medical, environmental, Labour or food standards.

Macron and Tusk maybe fighting with Bolsanoro over the fires but they are also sending him more matches than he can hope for.

* Don't get me started on almond milk and several other milk alternatives. How anyone can drink that and claim to be environmentally conscious is staggering.

Graces7 · 28-08-2019 12:48PM

kneemos wrote: »

England is mostly green fields, despite the huge population. Mostly urban though,less in the way of one off houses and small towns and villages.

It wasn't when I left it nearly 20 years ago! I hunted green space all the way up to Orkney! Tried Cornwall after Sheffield area..

Ireland is much greener and more wild space. Especially Donegal and north and west Mayo

Feisar · 28-08-2019 12:53PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Wise words that at least some of us heed. My fridge and freezer are at least 20 years old and I did not replace my car when it died .. never got the washing machine plumbed in . You soon adapt.

Aren't you retired living on an island though? Easy saying you don't need a car.

Not trying to delve into your circumstances however can I presume you have a pension of some description to live on? The finances that support that come from the current economic system of more more more. Some of your pension fund may be in BMW shares for example.

I'm not having a go at you personally, please don't see it like that. However you are a great example of someone living fairly simply but peel back the layers and you are just as complicit as the rest of us.

Graces7 · 28-08-2019 12:56PM

kneemos wrote: »

Burn peat or oil?

At least peat is local

Exactly so. Folk on the islands and in remoter areas have depended on peat and rightly, and the amount we burn makes little impact and yes less damage than the cost in every way of bringing in coal or oil. Locally bought coal is Polish and then there are freight costs.

It is bought from my neighbour so the money stays in the island economy. esb heating is beyond many of us. My solid fuel stove here heats the water and radiators. He has two small fields they has cut for generations. Most of the year they are still supporting the environment of course.

By all means stop the large scale stripping.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 28-08-2019 12:58PM

kneemos wrote: »

Burn peat or oil?

At least peat is local

So that excuses local extraction of the carbon sink we can have some control over? Even local small scale turf cutting is having a detrimental affect on our native ecology and is adding to the carbon issues. As long as they get cheap fuel these people don't give a damn about our environment or sustainably. They'll dress it up and pedal it's benefits but it's all about themselves and to hell with the consequence - that's for somebody to sort out somewhere far from our shores.

kneemos · 28-08-2019 12:58PM

Feisar wrote: »

Aren't you retired living on an island though? Easy saying you don't need a car.

Not trying to delve into your circumstances however can I presume you have a pension of some description to live on? The finances that support that come from the current economic system of more more more. Some of your pension fund may be in BMW shares for example.

I'm not having a go at you personally, please don't see it like that. However you are a great example of someone living fairly simply but peel back the layers and you are just as complicit as the rest of us.

Not really simple living on an island. Everything comes in by air or boat.

gozunda · 28-08-2019 12:59PM

Xcellor wrote: »

So oxygen quotas will be a bit hard to police.

Hows about quotas on carbon producing foods. The so called responsible nations should lead by example. Rank all foods based calorific content versus carbon produced. Everyone gets a quota and if you exceed that you pay extra taxes. Extra taxes raised go to Brazil + developing nations to restore rainforests.

Problem solved! :cool:

Nope. You forgot about the carbon foot print of your cheap quinoa berries imported from Guatemala, lentils from Canada or whatever plant food you consume etc which we don't produce here.

I do love the fact that Brazil gets paid to continue doing what its doing while we get taxed even more than at present- and are obliged to eat cheap imported crap to do so. Sounds fair though tbh ...

Danzy · 28-08-2019 01:04PM

What really grinds my gears is that transport emissions were excluded from carbon calculations.

gozunda · 28-08-2019 01:05PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Too many people eating red meat apparently is the problem. There's not much we can do.
The EU dictate environmental restrictions for European farmers and consumers, then propose the Mercosur deal with Brazil and similar when they knew rainforest burning would be encouraged by the deal. Much like phasing out single use plastics, we need to phase out our dependence on anything that comes from the Amazon rainforest. Not that counties like China will give a damn, or the US!

No dont think that is the problem tbh.

The rest yes. The bulk of the soya crops and cattle farmed in Brazil are currently exported to China. The daft thing is that the EU is now attempting to push their Emissions on to other countries - pretty much with what is happening here.

We produce high quality and high welfare agricultural products for Europe - they consume it and then tell us we're bad for producing it in the first place. If that's not bad enough - we are then encouraged to put people out of work here and import the same products but with a much higher carbon footprint and appalling ethical and environmental standards.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 28-08-2019 01:05PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We've no wilderness in Ireland and very few national parks. Pretty much the whole island is farms, towns, cities and dispersed housing. How is that in the least bit underpopulated???

I strongly agree Ireland needs wilderness and trees and kilometres of parks, that we don't have now unfortunately. We have the Dublin mountains and Killarney National Park and that's pretty much it.

We're a giant farm outside of urban/built up areas. Think I said this on other posts. We need our trees back. It built the Royal Navy a few hundred years ago.

England also relied on India so much. They had no magic formula. They took from others to make themselves better.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 28-08-2019 01:05PM

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Did you ever go to Kerry west Cork or up the west coast? Obviously not.

Those aren't examples of wilderness in a global sense. They aren't far from roads and towns. Many of them are used for grazing.

Danzy · 28-08-2019 01:08PM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Those aren't examples of wilderness in a global sense. They aren't far from roads and towns. Many of them are used for grazing.

Which much of the wildflower and wildlife here depend upon for survival.

Not all one nor the other.

gozunda · 28-08-2019 01:18PM

Xcellor wrote: »

Most of the poorer nations get the bulk of their calories from plants. They certainly aren't eating brazillian steak. If they were we'd be in even bigger problems...

I'll call bollox to that. 53 million head of cattle in Ethiopia. 75 million dairy farms in india - most with just a few animals. It's not about the 'bulk' of calories - it's about availability of foodstuffs and a balanced diet. Pre-famine people became dependant on potatoes for the bulk of their calories and look what happened then.

Meat and dairy make up a small but very important part of the majority of the peoples diet across the globe. Sad to say but unfortunately this is what these discussions boil down to - endless vegan advocacy based on misinformation. For christ sake there never even been has been a single indiginous group that had a restricted plant based diet no matter what the rubbish been pushed at us. And that's the truth.

Xcellor · 28-08-2019 01:21PM

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. You forgot about the carbon foot print of your cheap quinoa berries from Guatemala, lentils from Canada or whatever plant food you consume etc which we don't produce here.

I do love the fact that Brazil gets paid to continue doing what its doing while we get taxed even more than at present- and are obliged to eat cheap imported crap to do so. Sounds fair though tbh ...

So Ireland is incapable of producing its own vegetables grains and legumes? Netherlands seems to be able to grow a lot more than we do. Small country too.

So you would be against exporting beef to China then?

gozunda · 28-08-2019 01:37PM

Xcellor wrote: »

So Ireland is incapable of producing its own vegetables grains and legumes? Netherlands seems to be able to grow a lot more than we do. Small country too. So you would be against exporting beef to China then?

Our topography, climate and soils dictate much of what can be produced here. The commercial production of much arable and horticultural produce is not suitable for Irish conditions. I can tell you that as someone who is qualified in this area and have been involved in extensive field trials.

The Netherlands use a high input model reliant on vast areas of plastic or glass covered production units. These production units are artificially heated - often with fossil fuels and require massive inputs of artificial fertilisers and pesticides to ensure continuous cropping and availability all year round.

The fact is that Brazil is currently cutting down rainforest and exporting the bulk of its agricultural produce to China. That is what's happening. The issue is not that they need to import food including soy and meat to feed their population - it is that the rainforest is being destroyed to facilitate those imports.

Irish Guitarist · 28-08-2019 01:38PM

I've seen first hand how little anyone cares about nature in Ireland. I used to take walks by the River Barrow and every so often I'd see fuckers from Waterways Ireland cutting down trees for no discernible reason. You could take a walk and be amazed at the beauty of somewhere, then a couple of days later every tree for a mile or more would be gone.

This has been happening for years but they're now pretending that it's an oversight and the council pretends they're going to punish them. In reality no one gives a shit.

https://carlow-nationalist.ie/2019/03/15/waterways-ireland-says-sorry-for-felling-trees/

I've had arguments with people on Facebook who support this. These are the same people who spout nonsense about being environmentalists on their pages.

Danzy · 28-08-2019 01:40PM

Xcellor wrote: »

So Ireland is incapable of producing its own vegetables grains and legumes? Netherlands seems to be able to grow a lot more than we do. Small country too.

So you would be against exporting beef to China then?

There are key differences between agri in Ireland and the Netherlands, not just the soil or climate differences which we both know are significant in regard to cost.

In conjunction with the population market within a few hours drive. A hundred million people +. That alone is the game changer.

It makes the market unfeasible here, outside of small market or restaurants.

Dakota Dan · 28-08-2019 01:52PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Was in kerry recently. Climbed the reeks.

Must’ve been some feat to do it blindfolded.

Donnielighto · 28-08-2019 01:52PM

None of this matters really.

Population growth will mean that even if something is done to stop it now the pressures on resourcing mean that either now or in the future we'll go through this.

I don't think it's avoidable unless we're killed off some other way. Humans are heading for a large, and when it starts it will be sudden, population loss.

InTheShadows · 28-08-2019 01:52PM

Honestly I don't think there is any point in worrying about climate change. Mother nature will take us out eventually when the time suits be it astroid, a plague, super volcano etc... and that's if we don't start a nuclear war first. Not to mention nuclear power itself which has only been around a dot in our existence and we've already had numerous close calls.

Why should I care when our leaders definitely do not?

Dakota Dan · 28-08-2019 01:55PM

cjmc wrote: »

The future of the planet depends on it but I heard on TV that , even more than the Amazon, algae in the oceans produce more oxygen. So looking after them should be joint 1st on the to do for Earth list

If you heard it on the tv it must be true, surely.

Dakota Dan · 28-08-2019 01:58PM

Xcellor wrote: »

Most of the poorer nations get the bulk of their calories from plants. They certainly aren't eating brazillian steak. If they were we'd be in even bigger problems...

Their milk comes from dried powered milk manufactured from cows milk.

Mr. teddywinkles · 28-08-2019 02:01PM

Don't understand what our eu superiors thought was going to happen making that beef deal. Muppets

Dakota Dan · 28-08-2019 02:02PM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Those aren't examples of wilderness in a global sense. They aren't far from roads and towns. Many of them are used for grazing.

It’s a very small island country, what do you want the Sahara desert?

railer201 · 28-08-2019 02:21PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

Honestly I don't think there is any point in worrying about climate change. Mother nature will take us out eventually when the time suits be it astroid, a plague, super volcano etc... and that's if we don't start a nuclear war first. Not to mention nuclear power itself which has only been around a dot in our existence and we've already had numerous close calls.

Why should I care when our leaders definitely do not?

I think we should do everything we can to reverse climate change but at the same time looking at what is happening in Brazil and elsewhere I think we're just p1$$ing into the wind. Mother nature will take us out as you say.

Danzy · 28-08-2019 02:34PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Don't understand what our eu superiors thought was going to happen making that beef deal. Muppets

Don't forget the Soya.

The burning is all about the soya.

What has happened is exactly what they expected.

Graces7 · 28-08-2019 02:45PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

Honestly I don't think there is any point in worrying about climate change. Mother nature will take us out eventually when the time suits be it astroid, a plague, super volcano etc... and that's if we don't start a nuclear war first. Not to mention nuclear power itself which has only been around a dot in our existence and we've already had numerous close calls.

Why should I care when our leaders definitely do not?

We need to care because our leaders do not. Every major tyrant in history has prospered and grown in power via such attitudes as this.

And no such thing as Mother Nature

Many natural disasters are avoidable and man made

ToBeFrank123 · 28-08-2019 02:56PM

You cannot seriously put our peat production in the same league as Amazon deforestation.

The Amazon is being degraded by something like the size of Ireland every year. Countless animals, birds, etc are being slaughtered in the process including rare and endangered species.

Our peat production is minimal in comparison. A few insects at most if even. There's very few virgin bogs being cut, unlike virgin rainforest the size of countries.

I hate that people say we shouldn't do anything because of our own peat production. What a pathetic response to a serious issue.

Donnielighto · 28-08-2019 03:34PM

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

We need to care because our leaders do not. Every major tyrant in history has prospered and grown in power via such attitudes as this.

And no such thing as Mother Nature

Many natural disasters are avoidable and man made

They will happen anyway, nothing to do but delay. The lessons won't be learned until there is a disaster and even then they will be temporary lessons.

Pretty sure mother nature is referring to the world ecosystem. Not sentient but a thing.

The Brazilian Rainforest?

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