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Mugging up the mountains

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    #92
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'd say pepper spray might be useful if it was a lone attacker, less so if there's more than one person.

    Pepper spray, or mace etc, are all classified as weapons here and you will get in more trouble than the person who stole the bike.

    There's plenty of stuff you can legally carry that will disorientate an attacker and won't get you a criminal conviction.


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    #93
    Wailin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭Wailin


    Such as?


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    #94
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Wailin wrote: »
    Such as?

    You have to lube your chain don't you so you carry a can of spray oil/wax or in case you get a puncture you can carry a CO2 canister. You need tools to work on your bike so a spanner or screw driver can be carried without issues.

    A lot of people who carry and use a weapon are attacked with their own weapon.


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    #95
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,611 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Just to be clear, this incident happened two to three years ago. Local Gardai have said they received no such report this year. Just let that sink in before people start strapping single barrel rifles to their top tubes.


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    #96
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Just to be clear, this incident happened two to three years ago. Local Gardai have said they received no such report this year. Just let that sink in before people start strapping single barrel rifles to their top tubes.

    Ok, I'm clearly missing something here. My impression was there was an incident in June and another over the weekend. Are you saying that the Gardai have no record of any such incidents and stated the same? Any chance of a link to the source of that? :confused:


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    #97
    Balders93
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Balders93


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Just to be clear, this incident happened two to three years ago. Local Gardai have said they received no such report this year. Just let that sink in before people start strapping single barrel rifles to their top tubes.

    I was robbed three days ago. I can't add links because I'm a new user here but if you find the Dublin Live article on it you'll read "Gardai confirmed to Dublin Live that a bike had been stolen in the Wicklow mountains on Satuday afternoon, adding that investigations are ongoing."


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    #98
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Just to be clear, this incident happened two to three years ago. Local Gardai have said they received no such report this year. Just let that sink in...
    Just to be clear, the latest incident happened a few days ago and Gardai were all over it.
    Maybe read the thread next time, before lecturing us? A link was provided earlier...
    worded wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/pretty-sinister-solo-cyclists-being-attacked-having-bikes-forcefully-stolen-on-popular-dublinwicklow-route-38434266.html

    rflynnr wrote: »
    In fairness my even older Trek still frequently struggles over Sally Gap. Sometimes with me actually on it. If you didn't know much about bikes you might well mistake it for something far more valuable than it actually is.
    I'm guessing the perps are unable to differentiate between aluminium, carbon fibre, and electric bikes until they get a closer look after the bikejacking. However the chances of hitting the jackpot are a helluva lot higher around Sally Gap compared to robbing bikes from random garden sheds in the suburbs.
    There's quite a few electrics up there these days, each one worth several grand.


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    #99
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Just to be clear, this incident happened two to three years ago. Local Gardai have said they received no such report this year. Just let that sink in before people start strapping single barrel rifles to their top tubes.

    Now that we've cleared up the timeline on this, Is it now OK to strap on the rifle?
    asking for a friend.


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    #100
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,907 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    also, is there such a thing as a double barrel rifle?


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    #101
    Mickiemcfist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Mickiemcfist


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    also, is there such a thing as a double barrel rifle?

    Yes for shooting Siamese deer.


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    #102
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,611 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    recedite wrote: »
    Just to be clear, the latest incident happened a few days ago and Gardai were all over it.
    Maybe read the thread next time, before lecturing us? A link was provided earlier...
    and I was talking to one Sargent who said they had not been reported too, another poster had apparently rang several of the local stations who all claimed to have no such reports and another clubmate who was in the Garda station mentioned last night in regards organising an event said the Super there had no such report this year.

    I can't find the article your referring too but the two I seen sound identical to the ones reported a year ago and have no actual facts in them bar this one guy on twitter.

    I am not lecturing, I am pointing out the stupidity of arming yourself for a crime that may never have even taken place. The statements in the article you link are from a councillor. Having seen the statements from councillors on stuff like this in my old estate, only to be followed by the local garda liaison officer coming in and pointing out that it was the safest estate in the country statistically, I take it with a pinch of salt.


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    #103
    Melodeon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭Melodeon


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    also, is there such a thing as a double barrel rifle?

    Absolutely!:
    489208.jpg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_rifle

    For your next purchase:
    https://www.purdey.com/guns-rifles/double-rifles

    They're inordinately expensive though, and as they're usually chambered for large dangerous game, are probably somewhat 'overkill' for use on the thin-skinned light skeleton of the lesser common scumbag.
    Unless you're aiming for the neck of course, which is the thickest/toughest known natural 'armour' in all of the animal kingdom. :D


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    #104
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    CramCycle wrote: »
    The statements in the article you link are from a councillor. Having seen the statements from councillors on stuff..
    Here's another link, but as you've already decided you're not going to believe any of them anyway, I can't help you.


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    #105
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,907 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i suspect they don't make bike carriers for them though.


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    #106
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Melodeon wrote: »
    For your next purchase:
    https://www.purdey.com/guns-rifles/double-rifles


    Now that you mention it, it does come with a mounting bracket....



    1914_Raleigh_Military_Model_05.jpg


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    #107
    letape
    Registered Users Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭letape


    Cramcycle - I can’t for the life of me understand why you’re suggesting that this didn’t happen. Why would someone make it up, which Is what you’re saying.


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    #108
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,264 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    https://roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/guns/


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    #109
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,611 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    recedite wrote: »
    Here's another link, but as you've already decided you're not going to believe any of them anyway, I can't help you.

    I didn't say I didn't believe it, I said that it is identical to a similar report last year or the year before (Sargent said they had no such reports for two.three years), no local stations seem to have any knowledge of it bar twitter. It may have happened, it may not, only Ian on twitter knows for sure at this stage. And yet again, arming yourself for it seems preposterous in the extreme.

    Maybe the Sargent I talked to just hadn't been told, maybe the super at the station that it falls under missed it in the updates ?!? i honestly don't know, maybe someone has a bit of the auld Walter Mitty going on. I know which one seems more likely at this stage but happy to be shown that I am mistaken, I just won't over react to it though.

    None of this really matters as, some of the responses around here seem insane, pepper spray, improvising an allen key as a shiv (I extrapolated this from your bike repair tools could be used as a weapon). Christ on a bike, if completely true, we all know now, you see two young lads hanging out near the gap, turn around before you reach them. This said most of the young lads I see up there are too busy getting stoned or burning out the car they nicked from Rathfarnham that morning.


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    #110
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,611 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    letape wrote: »
    Cramcycle - I can’t for the life of me understand why you’re suggesting that this didn’t happen. Why would someone make it up, which Is what you’re saying.

    I didn't say he did, I just said the local gardai seem to know nothing about it. As for why would someone make it up, well, it is the internet. All I said was it may or may not be true, lets not overreact to something that possibly happened, and if it did, only twice in the last two years. I certainly won't be prepping myself to physically assault someone when I head over the gap next, at least no more than usual :eek:


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    #111
    dave_o_brien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭dave_o_brien


    letape wrote: »
    Cramcycle - I can’t for the life of me understand why you’re suggesting that this didn’t happen. Why would someone make it up, which Is what you’re saying.

    First of all, I do believe that this one happened, just to establish a basis.

    However, just to refer to a few unrelated stories and how the reporting of them often departs somewhat from reality as a result of individual misunderstanding, exaggeration and flawed memory, here are a few examples:

    I used to live in a part of Dublin City Centre where we got a letter from the residents committee advising us that a local resident had been followed home in her car, assualted on exiting her car and had her car stolen. The actual truth was that her ex-boyfriend had beaten her up and taken a car he had given her as a gift as "punishment". Scumbag and criminal, but the story was spread in a way that was scaremongering.

    A creche near my daughter's creche sent home a note advising parents that a strange man had been spotted outside the creche and there was a suspicion of his association with a reported child abduction nearby. The truth was he was doing maintenance on a roof nearby, happened to be parking at creche drop off time every morning for a few days in a row and was just making eye contact with parents as they passed. The gardaí got involved and had to advise all the parents that this man was investigated and had no known association with any child abduction, and that indeed they had no evidence of any child abduction in the area (except for one parental abduction where a mother brought her son on holidays without informing her ex-husband). It seems that the original creche just flat out made this part up.

    When I was in school, a mother complained of a strange man who had been spotted waiting outside the school around the time school finished. The man was spotted a few days later and confronted by a few angry mothers. Turns out his son was in my class. A man, collecting his child, at that time, was unheard of.

    There emerged stories of pretty much the exact thing described as occurring to Ian before; car used to drive cyclist into ditch, bicycle stolen and cyclist left stranded. From memory, there was an article in a red-top describing the danger of cycling through Wicklow on this basis, but the only location it had happened was France. It did mention a spate of car break-in's inflicted upon hikers in Kerry, but nothing, literally nothing, had been reported in Wicklow at the time. Instead other stories had been hobbled together to scaremonger.

    Now it has happened to Ian. That is sh*t. I'm glad he's doing ok, and hope the gowls who did this are caught.


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    #112
    Balders93
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Balders93


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I didn't say I didn't believe it, I said that it is identical to a similar report last year or the year before (Sargent said they had no such reports for two.three years), no local stations seem to have any knowledge of it bar twitter. It may have happened, it may not, only Ian on twitter knows for sure at this stage. And yet again, arming yourself for it seems preposterous in the extreme.

    Maybe the Sargent I talked to just hadn't been told, maybe the super at the station that it falls under missed it in the updates ?!? i honestly don't know, maybe someone has a bit of the auld Walter Mitty going on. I know which one seems more likely at this stage but happy to be shown that I am mistaken, I just won't over react to it though.

    None of this really matters as, some of the responses around here seem insane, pepper spray, improvising an allen key as a shiv (I extrapolated this from your bike repair tools could be used as a weapon). Christ on a bike, if completely true, we all know now, you see two young lads hanging out near the gap, turn around before you reach them. This said most of the young lads I see up there are too busy getting stoned or burning out the car they nicked from Rathfarnham that morning.

    The gardai who responded to me were based out of Bray if you really want to follow it up and get to the bottom of this. Agreed though that prepping to get into a fight is madness if you've been cycling for a couple of hours at that point and are wearing cycling shoes.


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    #113
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Chiparus wrote: »
    https://roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/guns/


    I like the Smith &Wesson "accidental discharge" illustration.
    Don't worry folks, this is only a fart, for illustrative purposes. The gun itself is perfectly safe!


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    #114
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,907 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    CramCycle wrote: »
    None of this really matters as, some of the responses around here seem insane, pepper spray, improvising an allen key as a shiv
    a mate who was in the army told me that the rule for engagement there was three to one - as in, don't attack an enemy soldier unless you outnumber them three to one.
    similar concept here; if you're mugged by more than one person, the likelihood of you being injured is reasonably small if you just hand the bike over. however, if you try to attack them, you're almost certainly going to end up injured, because you're outnumbered. because the other party is using the threat of violence to achieve their end - if you turn the threat into reality, it's open season on you.


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    #115
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    a mate who was in the army told me that the rule for engagement there was three to one - as in, don't attack an enemy soldier unless you outnumber them three to one.
    similar concept here; if you're mugged by more than one person, the likelihood of you being injured is reasonably small if you just hand the bike over. however, if you try to attack them, you're almost certainly going to end up injured, because you're outnumbered. because the other party is using the threat of violence to achieve their end - if you turn the threat into reality, it's open season on you.
    Quite right. However the point of pepper spray is that the attacker is literally blindsided (temporarily) allowing the victim to make their escape.
    Hence I would not really classify it as a "weapon" as such, though I can see that others might disagree. Its more of an exit strategy.


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    #116
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,611 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Balders93 wrote: »
    The gardai who responded to me were based out of Bray if you really want to follow it up and get to the bottom of this. Agreed though that prepping to get into a fight is madness if you've been cycling for a couple of hours at that point and are wearing cycling shoes.

    I actually forgot that once the other local stations are closed it hands over to Bray. Hope your doing alright, like yourself though, I won't be carrying an extra spanner due to a once off attack.


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    #117
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    a mate who was in the army told me that the rule for engagement there was three to one - as in, don't attack an enemy soldier unless you outnumber them three to one.
    similar concept here; if you're mugged by more than one person, the likelihood of you being injured is reasonably small if you just hand the bike over. however, if you try to attack them, you're almost certainly going to end up injured, because you're outnumbered. because the other party is using the threat of violence to achieve their end - if you turn the threat into reality, it's open season on you.

    Also worth remembering that the two muggers will most likely have had some exposure to violence and be prepared for the encounter. If you haven't, an isolated roadside is probably not the best place to start. Same goes for learning how to use an improvised weapon. Bikes are eminently replaceable for most of us, even if being n-1 for a while sucks. Serious injury could be considerably more expensive at many levels.


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    #118
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    Quite right. However the point of pepper spray is that the attacker is literally blindsided (temporarily) allowing the victim to make their escape.
    Hence I would not really classify it as a "weapon" as such, though I can see that others might disagree. Its more of an exit strategy.

    Don't know when you last cycled over the gap Rec, but calm days are rather rare and deploying pepper spray in heavy wind and/or rain requires skill and luck. Even cycling forward against the wind up there last Saturday morning was challenging enough.


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    #119
    Mickiemcfist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Mickiemcfist


    smacl wrote: »
    Also worth remembering that the two muggers will most likely have had some exposure to violence and be prepared for the encounter. If you haven't, an isolated roadside is probably not the best place to start. Same goes for learning how to use an improvised weapon.

    Yea this is seriously true, I've seen it a good few times where a normal guy takes a few years of boxercise or even MMA etc. and thinks they could take one or two rough scrotes. What they don't take into account is the fact that in these situtations, real fear can take over (shakes, awful decision making) & the safe set up they're used to when sparring feels like a million miles away.

    If there's ever a situation where you're about to enter a fight, decide if you could still manage to win if they had a concealed knife, if not, just give the bike/phone/car away.


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    #120
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    smacl wrote: »
    Don't know when you last cycled over the gap Rec, but calm days are rather rare and deploying pepper spray in heavy wind and/or rain requires skill and luck. Even cycling forward against the wind up there last Saturday morning was challenging enough.

    What do you do after you give them a few minutes of discomfort, up the gap there aren't many places to run to


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    #121
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    smacl wrote: »
    Don't know when you last cycled over the gap Rec, but calm days are rather rare and deploying pepper spray in heavy wind and/or rain requires skill and luck. Even cycling forward against the wind up there last Saturday morning was challenging enough.
    Stand upwind.
    Fail to plan - plan to fail.

    LollipopJimmy wrote: »
    What do you do after you give them a few minutes of discomfort, up the gap there aren't many places to run to
    10 minutes of fast descending, then hide or go into a cafe. Maybe you could also take the car keys or let the air out of their tyres before leaving the scene.
    If you're not up for that, you don't have to deploy the cs spray.


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