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Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

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  • Options
    #1472
    Centurion1001
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Centurion1001


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Quite the opposite. For some reason, normal, sensible posters are avoiding a thread which is essentially a bunch of climate change denying conspiracy theorists piling on together to insult and bully a teenage girl for daring to have good intentions and a platform to advocate for a better world.

    No sensible people could be bothered to hang around for long in such a toxic environment so it turns into a ‘safe space’ for people of an extremely fringe world view to hang out together agreeing with each other to make themselves feel like they’re right and everyone else is wrong.

    When you so comprehensively lose the debate on climate change (because the evidence is overwhelming) you are left with focusing your frustration on individual boogeymen characters as ‘proof’ that all that evidence you can’t argue against doesn’t matter anyway because it’s all faked by the conspiracy

    If you'd look at my posts I haven't abused her or denied climate change. I've simply questioned the feasibility of what she and like-minded people are demanding. It would involve countless job losses and the standard of living to plummet.


  • Options
    #1473
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Centurion1001 wrote: »
    If you'd look at my posts I haven't abused her or denied climate change. I've simply questioned the feasibility of what she and like-minded people are demanding. It would involve countless job losses and the standard of living to plummet.

    I dont think you are the only poster on the thread!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #1474
    Centurion1001
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Centurion1001


    vladmydad wrote: »
    It’s very grating to see mega corporations and celebrities push an issue for which they are responsible for creating and making worse. Why doesn’t Greta give a speech at the Oscars next year and ask all the celebrities to stop flying private jets. We should start a hashtag #stopflyingprivate and aim it at these smug entitled control freak celebrities.


    These are the same people who lecture us about feminism and equality and then turn around and work with the likes of Woody Allen and Roman Polanski. Do as I say not as I do is their mantra.


  • Options
    #1475
    Centurion1001
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Centurion1001


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I dont think you are the only poster on the thread!

    I'm not claiming to be. But he made a blanket statement that anyone not in favor of Thunberg is some knuckledragger like your man calling her a c**t. I'm merely saying that isn't true.


  • Options
    #1476
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    They need to put the foot down and get moving :)
    The wind has turned against them and they are entering a bit of a storm, or at least a low pressure system.
    Probably shoulda take a more southerly course.
    https://www.windy.com/track-team-malizia-and-greta-on-their-journey-across-the-atlantic?41.706,-41.572,4


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  • Options
    #1477
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Why is everyone critical of her a "climate change denier" ?
    I can't stand her but I realise there is a serious issue with climate change.

    But if people want it to change - THEY need to change - change their lifestyles.
    GT and her movement will all boil down to money and tax.

    I don't see how paying more tax will solve the problem, that money will just go into corrupt pockets..
    Fair play to her she doesn't fly - but look at the entourage she is bringing with her - who I hear will fly back to Europe after it's done.
    Would have been less carbon if she'd just flown with her dad in the 1st place.

    So meanwhile as all the media get behind her - they all ignore Boyan Slat - someone who is actually DOING something - not just hissy fitting and moaning about it.

    Meanwhile - SUV sales rise.
    More people travelling - continuing to rise - all those cheap ryanair flights!

    It's easier to post on social media your virtue signalling, it's harder to actually :

    * drive less - stop getting SUV monsters - you don't need them in Dublin
    * Have less kids
    * Eat less meat
    * Stop buying a new ****ing iPhone every 6 months ....
    * Stop buying sweat shop clothes made by slave kids in China every month .. be frugal
    * Use the poxy clothes line !! stop using dryers - they eat energy!!

    lots more stuff ...





    edit - oh yeah, when will she be off to Beijing since China will be soon the worlds worst polluter - will she be lecturing them ??


  • Options
    #1478
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I accept this poster has been permabanned but it encapsulates a lot of the posting as the thread has progressed. This is really getting under the skin of people of a particular bent.

    That post was completely unacceptable - but no it does not "encapsulate a lot of the postings" & etc . You personally may disagree with other posters opinions - that does not mean they are wrong. If on the other hand you believe a post unacceptable then probably best thing is to report it.


  • Options
    #1479
    quokula
    Registered Users Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭quokula


    Centurion1001 wrote: »
    If you'd look at my posts I haven't abused her or denied climate change. I've simply questioned the feasibility of what she and like-minded people are demanding. It would involve countless job losses and the standard of living to plummet.

    You did reply to someone linking an article saying it was a good "summary" despite it being laced with the usual climate-denial bull**** lines like "actually more CO2 is good for plants", "warm is better than cold", "doubling CO2 will only cause 1 degree of warming", "the IPCC's report is distorted" etc which are statements that vary from blatantly untrue, to sequiturs designed to distract from the real issue. All of course are backed up by links to "facts" from the Cato institute, a Koch brothers propaganda machine that previously defended big tobacco.


    In any case, if you don't deny climate change you'd question the feasibility of doing nothing.


  • Options
    #1480
    Centurion1001
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Centurion1001


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Why is everyone critical of her a "climate change denier" ?
    I can't stand her but I realise there is a serious issue with climate change.

    But if people want it to change - THEY need to change - change their lifestyles.
    GT and her movement will all boil down to money and tax.

    I don't see how paying more tax will solve the problem, that money will just go into corrupt pockets..
    Fair play to her she doesn't fly - but look at the entourage she is bringing with her - who I hear will fly back to Europe after it's done.
    Would have been less carbon if she'd just flown with her dad in the 1st place.

    So meanwhile as all the media get behind her - they all ignore Boyan Slat - someone who is actually DOING something - not just hissy fitting and moaning about it.

    Meanwhile - SUV sales rise.
    More people travelling - continuing to rise - all those cheap ryanair flights!

    It's easier to post on social media your virtue signalling, it's harder to actually :

    * drive less - stop getting SUV monsters - you don't need them in Dublin
    * Have less kids
    * Eat less meat
    * Stop buying a new ****ing iPhone every 6 months ....
    * Stop buying sweat shop clothes made by slave kids in China every month .. be frugal
    * Use the poxy clothes line !! stop using dryers - they eat energy!!

    lots more stuff ...





    edit - oh yeah, when will she be off to Beijing since China will be soon the worlds worst polluter - will she be lecturing them ??

    60% of the coal burned in the world annually is burned in China. Let's see all the slacktivists travel there. By boat of course.


  • Options
    #1481
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    And of course how could I forget his lordship Elton John - don't worry folks he will pay for the carbon footprint caused by Harry and Markles private jet - the arrogance, does he think money will just fix it ?

    And I was actually happy that they announced they'd only have 2 children - if that idea can stick in the world of having less kids, we might get somewhere.

    sort out the overpopulation problem , climate change will sort itself out.
    IT's a long term solution.

    I don't want to have to pay much more tax so fat rich corrupt politicians can still drive around in their luxury SUVs and tick boxes pretending to do something about climate change.


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    #1482
    Centurion1001
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Centurion1001


    quokula wrote: »
    You did reply to someone linking an article saying it was a good "summary" despite it being laced with the usual climate-denial bull**** lines like "actually more CO2 is good for plants", "warm is better than cold", "doubling CO2 will only cause 1 degree of warming", "the IPCC's report is distorted" etc which are statements that vary from blatantly untrue, to sequiturs designed to distract from the real issue. All of course are backed up by links to "facts" from the Cato institute, a Koch brothers propaganda machine that previously defended big tobacco.


    In any case, if you don't deny climate change you'd question the feasibility of doing nothing.

    Oh God the Koch brothers! Will you mention the Rothschild's and Rupert Murdock next?


  • Options
    #1483
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    quokula wrote: »
    That medium article is a bunch of climate denying pseudoscientific drivel.You can believe that nonsense and think there's no problem with emissions, or you can have some kind of problem with the emissions caused by the crew of the boat Greta is taking (ignoring the tiny scale of them in proportion to the effect raising awareness will have and even in proportion to Greta's personal sacrifices in the rest of her life), but I don't see how you can reconcile those two positions without being a total hypocrite.

    Nope. Incorrect. The article denies nothing. It certainly questions gretas rhetoric of the IPCC data. There are certainly notable issues with a boat whose carbon footprint by necessity must include the heavy fossil fuel used in its manufacture and the flying of crew for said journey backwards and forwards across the Atlantic - producing many times more carbon than if greta and her father flew to New York - but dont let that stop your righteous rant.

    As to the personal "sacrifices' (sic) of saint greta - they are moot as she states she doesnt want these things and makes sure that as part of the campaign that we hear about them as nauseum.
    And instead of infering other posters might be hypocrites for pointing such things out - you may look to yourself first.


  • Options
    #1484
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Quite the opposite. For some reason, normal, sensible posters are avoiding a thread which is essentially a bunch of climate change denying conspiracy theorists piling on together to insult and bully a teenage girl for daring to have good intentions and a platform to advocate for a better world.No sensible people could be bothered to hang around for long in such a toxic environment so it turns into a ‘safe space’ for people of an extremely fringe world view to hang out together agreeing with each other to make themselves feel like they’re right and everyone else is wrong.
    When you so comprehensively lose the debate on climate change (because the evidence is overwhelming) you are left with focusing your frustration on individual boogeymen characters as ‘proof’ that all that evidence you can’t argue against doesn’t matter anyway because it’s all faked by the conspiracy

    Bar a very small number of extreme posts - the majority of posters are not 'climate change denying conspiracy theorists" no hatter how much that suits your narrative. The only real bullying apparent is that of anyone who points out the issues with gretas ongoing pr campaign. I presume you are must be excluding yourself from the other "sensible people" if you are actually bothered to come down off your high horse to post here. Now rather than launching another attack of 'toxic sludge' on everyone one you disagree with - how about discusing the actual topic of the thread?


  • Options
    #1485
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    gozunda wrote: »
    Bar a very small number of extreme posts - the majority of posters are not 'climate change denying conspiracy theorists" no hatter how much that suits your narrative. The only real bullying apparent is that of anyone who points out the issues with gretas ongoing pr campaign. I presume you are must be excluding yourself from the other "sensible people" if you are actually bothered to come down off your high horse to post here. Now rather than launching another attack on everyone one you disagree with- how about discusing the actual topic of the thread?

    |Its the same tactic the left* will use, smear everyone as a climate change/flat earrther/creationist .... they use the same tactic when people have genuine criticism of Islam - they are just racist "islamaphobic" bigots ...


    * yes I'm aware I have just smeared the whole left .... not the sane classic left though...


  • Options
    #1486
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Every thread, left right. Sigh.


  • Options
    #1487
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Every thread, left right. Sigh.

    Well not quite. Apologies for being a little pedantic but I did a quick check - the term 'left' as referring to personal politics - appears about 8 times and 'right's about a dozen* times approx. But yes as in real life many of these issues do reflect political bias on a scale between the two extremes.


  • Options
    #1488
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Centurion1001 wrote: »
    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Why is everyone critical of her a "climate change denier" ?
    I can't stand her but I realise there is a serious issue with climate change.

    But if people want it to change - THEY need to change - change their lifestyles.
    GT and her movement will all boil down to money and tax.

    I don't see how paying more tax will solve the problem, that money will just go into corrupt pockets..
    Fair play to her she doesn't fly - but look at the entourage she is bringing with her - who I hear will fly back to Europe after it's done.
    Would have been less carbon if she'd just flown with her dad in the 1st place.

    So meanwhile as all the media get behind her - they all ignore Boyan Slat - someone who is actually DOING something - not just hissy fitting and moaning about it.

    Meanwhile - SUV sales rise.
    More people travelling - continuing to rise - all those cheap ryanair flights!

    It's easier to post on social media your virtue signalling, it's harder to actually :

    * drive less - stop getting SUV monsters - you don't need them in Dublin
    * Have less kids
    * Eat less meat
    * Stop buying a new ****ing iPhone every 6 months ....
    * Stop buying sweat shop clothes made by slave kids in China every month .. be frugal
    * Use the poxy clothes line !! stop using dryers - they eat energy!!

    lots more stuff ...





    edit - oh yeah, when will she be off to Beijing since China will be soon the worlds worst polluter - will she be lecturing them ??

    60% of the coal burned in the world annually is burned in China. Let's see all the slacktivists travel there. By boat of course.

    Her and her puppetmasters are only interested in punishing the white west, no interest in dealing with the real cause of the issue at all.


  • Options
    #1489
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    gozunda wrote: »
    Well not quite. Apologies for being a little pedantic but I did a quick check - the term 'left' as referring to personal politics - appears about 8 times and 'right's about a dozen* times approx. .

    I don't get you?


  • Options
    #1490
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    I don't get you?

    From.
    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Every thread, left right. Sigh.

    Did you mean something else?


  • Options
    #1491
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    gozunda wrote: »
    From.


    Did you mean something else?

    I meant every thread left right gets mentioned. You confirmed but said you were being pendantic?


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    #1492
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    I meant every thread left right gets mentioned. You confirmed but said you were being pendantic?

    Well no - you see it's only a handful of comments in this thread but yeah likley its going to get mentioned else especially where politics/ political belief is being called into play

    And only a tiny bit pedantic but only by reply - as I'm sure you agree there's nothing wrong with that ...


  • Options
    #1493
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I accept this poster has been permabanned but it encapsulates a lot of the posting as the thread has progressed. This is really getting under the skin of people of a particular bent.

    this has already been addressed more than once but seeing as it's not just a totally incorrect and lazy statement but also absolutely typical of the tactics not just in the thread but fundamental to the thought process behind putting a teenager at the forefront of a movement, let's call it out again:

    the rush to claim that every criticism of this debacle and of the broader idea of a teenage eco-messiah is abusive, disgusting, mysogynist, trumpian or even that it suggests a climate-change denial agenda is aggressively anti-intellectual, aggressively anti-discussion and is just blatant arrogance from a cabal completely unable to further an agenda that might involve views that don't align completely to their own.

    the post to which you refer was disgraceful and resulted in a ban quick-sharp. it is quite clearly not representative of any but the outlier posts in this several hundred post thread.

    your post attempting to define anything beyond what you agree with as encapsulated by it is also disgraceful and it underlines the unwillingness to engage with anything short of complete agreement that hamstrings all zealots.


  • Options
    #1494
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    gozunda wrote: »
    Well no - you see it's only a handful of comments in this thread but yeah likley its going to get mentioned else especially where politics/ political belief is being called into play.

    Maybe I'm out of the loop on this stuff. Didn't realise it was a political belief. So if someone is a Republican they have a default Republican view on climate change.


  • Options
    #1495
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    gozunda wrote: »
    Bar a very small number of extreme posts - the majority of posters are not 'climate change denying conspiracy theorists" no hatter how much that suits your narrative. The only real bullying apparent is that of anyone who points out the issues with gretas ongoing pr campaign. I presume you are must be excluding yourself from the other "sensible people" if you are actually bothered to come down off your high horse to post here. Now rather than launching another attack of 'toxic sludge' on everyone one you disagree with - how about discusing the actual topic of the thread?

    I know this particular thread is about Greta thurberg sailing the Atlantic, and on that singular issue I have reservations.
    But leaving aside that issue plenty of people, yourself included seem to be critical of all initiatives or ideas to reduce carbon emissions.
    If you are not a "climate change denying conspiracy theorist" (your words) how should we face this problem.
    Are there any suggestions you would support.
    It is very easy to sit on the sidelines and mock everything that people do, or alternatively despair at everything because Ireland is so small we can't possibly have an effect.
    I understand objections to a certain extent, rich people with private jets talking about reducing carbon emissions is galling. Hypocrisy is hard to take.
    So my question is straightforward, what would you like to see happen to help reduce carbon emissions.
    No one thing will solve everything but just one initiative that you would support.
    No whataboutery, just one thing you support.


  • Options
    #1496
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    joe40 wrote: »
    gozunda wrote: »
    Bar a very small number of extreme posts - the majority of posters are not 'climate change denying conspiracy theorists" no hatter how much that suits your narrative. The only real bullying apparent is that of anyone who points out the issues with gretas ongoing pr campaign. I presume you are must be excluding yourself from the other "sensible people" if you are actually bothered to come down off your high horse to post here. Now rather than launching another attack of 'toxic sludge' on everyone one you disagree with - how about discusing the actual topic of the thread?

    I know this particular thread is about Greta thurberg sailing the Atlantic, and on that singular issue I have reservations.
    But leaving aside that issue plenty of people, yourself included seem to be critical of all initiatives or ideas to reduce carbon emissions.
    If you are not a "climate change denying conspiracy theorist" (your words) how should we face this problem.
    Are there any suggestions you would support.
    It is very easy to sit on the sidelines and mock everything that people do, or alternatively despair at everything because Ireland is so small we can't possibly have an effect.
    I understand objections to a certain extent, rich people with private jets talking about reducing carbon emissions is galling. Hypocrisy is hard to take.
    So my question is straightforward, what would you like to see happen to help reduce carbon emissions.
    No one thing will solve everything but just one initiative that you would support.
    No whataboutery, just one thing you support.

    Could you state what the optimum surface temperature of the earth should be?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Options
    #1497
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Could you state what the optimum surface temperature of the earth should be?

    No, nothing to do with the question I asked.


  • Options
    #1498
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    joe40 wrote: »
    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Could you state what the optimum surface temperature of the earth should be?

    No

    Well how can we come up with a solution if we don’t know what our target is?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Options
    #1499
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Maybe I'm out of the loop on this stuff. Didn't realise it was a political belief. So if someone is a Republican they have a default Republican view on climate change.

    Not referred to. But politics frequently are. Hence left / right gets bandied about a lot.


  • Options
    #1500
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Well how can we come up with a solution if we don’t know what our target is?

    The target is reduction of carbon emissions.


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    #1501
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    joe40 wrote: »
    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Well how can we come up with a solution if we don’t know what our target is?

    The target is reduction of carbon emissions.

    To what end? You are avoiding answering. Why are we told we must reduce carbon emissions?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



This discussion has been closed.
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