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Third Irish forestry fund.

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    #272
    Shaun73
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Shaun73


    There have been references to Deloitte and Touch.

    An excerpt from the VEON announcememt of 2 July (VEON website):

    "The portfolio was independently advised by Deloitte and marketed in a competitive tender process."


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    #273
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,928 ✭✭✭Tow


    Most of the banks and utilities bulk mailing are printed/sent by a company down the road from them, in Sandyford Industrial Estate. At this stage Limerick would have made no difference, if sent, they should have arrived on Monday across the country and still no sign on Tuesday.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



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    #274
    MGHolmes
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭MGHolmes


    Trust in God !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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    #275
    dan1981
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭dan1981


    Tow wrote: »
    Most of the banks and utilities bulk mailing are printed/sent by a company down the road from them, in Sandyford Industrial Estate. At this stage Limerick would have made no difference, if sent, they should have arrived on Monday across the country and still no sign on Tuesday.

    These are not utility bills being posted, these are financial transactions and actual cheques.

    I’m not saying the delay is acceptable, but it would be helpful if we could have some common sense where we can.


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    #276
    Count Hairyfoot
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Count Hairyfoot


    Just rang Veon again. Yes they were definitely posted on Friday. Absolutely no doubt about it. Posted from Limerick apparently.


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    #277
    slippyg
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭slippyg


    I'm living in Limerick and still haven't received anything. I find it very strange that a letter posted last Friday hasn't turned up by now.


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    #278
    antietam1
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭antietam1


    dan1981 wrote: »
    Not to the extent it's being discussed here. But I do suspect there are many Irish Forestry lurkers looking at this thread:

    Here's a thread from elsewhere: https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/investment-in-irish-forestry-funds.6699/page-14#post-1613216

    And I think the word you're looking for is 'fora' :)

    Thanks for that, I just posted there on Axa's positivity.
    Going for Kawphy shortly and will insert fora in every conversation.
    Have the prospectus in front of me, it is really annoying talking about a possible £28,500 for each share.


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    #279
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    This would be the first port of call I would think:
    http://www.odce.ie/
    But you may need to establish an "action group" to best pool together resources and make yourselves heard.


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    #280
    antietam1
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭antietam1


    Snail mail was never more apt.


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    #281
    tomgilboy
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭tomgilboy


    The Pony Express is alive and well in Limerick


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    #282
    Davo222
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Davo222


    They under sold the 10year plans and got away with it, saying there was a downturn in demand.
    So here we go again. Has any fund ever delivered?


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    #283
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    slippyg wrote: »
    I'm living in Limerick and still haven't received anything. I find it very strange that a letter posted last Friday hasn't turned up by now.

    It doesn't work like that - post goes to a central sorting office and then onwards.


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    #284
    IrForestryQ
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭IrForestryQ


    Maybe Veon and co did there best with regards all this and the shock of the financials just makes us befuddled and perplexed as to why we got this return.

    If the checks come Im letting this so and moving on with my life and think of it as a good learning experience. We should resign ourselves as happy that we are getting what we are getting.

    I'll probably congratulate the management of there work and just let it go. No point wasting anymore time thinking of what may or may not happened. This whole thing has given me sever anxiety.


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    #285
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    All Righty wrote: »
    For the research I've done in relation to forests (here & in Europe), timber prices, Sikka Spruce pests I have major concerns.

    As an actual user of timber commercially, I can attest that the pricing of timber has only gone one way, and will only continue to go one way - and that is up.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #286
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    IrForestryQ wrote: »
    Maybe Veon and co did there best with regards all this and the shock of the financials just makes us befuddled and perplexed as to why we got this return.

    If the checks come Im letting this so and moving on with my life and think of it as a good learning experience. We should resign ourselves as happy that we are getting what we are getting.

    I'll probably congratulate the management of there work and just let it go. No point wasting anymore time thinking of what may or may not happened. This whole thing has given me sever anxiety.

    Money in a saving's account is a waste of time, and is currently shrinking. It is literally worth less over time: it's not even keeping even.

    Buy something with it: I don't care what it is: Gold, Art, Classic Cars. At least you'll have the enjoyment of the asset.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #287
    ForFsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭ForFsSake


    antietam1 wrote: »
    Not sure I believe what you post, I don't know you so pardon me.

    All his/her other posts have slated the funds performance and the decision too sell so I believe. Think they just have had enough and want to move on.

    I am the same. I am hoping that the whole think gets scrutinised and maybe a newspaper could name and shame the directors if they believe their performance or behaviour warranted it. In general most people who cannot afford these type of investments will have little sympathy that we made a smaller profit than we hoped - for that reason its not much of a story. I think it is and deserves coverage but .......

    Other than that I intend to bank the cheque when it turns up and move on ..... though will always believe we got shafted!


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    #288
    McSqueelpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭McSqueelpipe


    IrForestryQ wrote: »
    Maybe Veon and co did there best with regards all this and the shock of the financials just makes us befuddled and perplexed as to why we got this return.

    If the checks come Im letting this so and moving on with my life and think of it as a good learning experience. We should resign ourselves as happy that we are getting what we are getting.

    I'll probably congratulate the management of there work and just let it go. No point wasting anymore time thinking of what may or may not happened. This whole thing has given me sever anxiety.

    This may well turn out to be the case. But, with the potential for there to be a significant gap between what was projected and what is likely to be delivered it needs to be challenged.


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    #289
    Cmfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Cmfitz


    Hi I could contracted them and this is what they advised.
    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€634.85 initial investment) in the Third Irish Forestry Fund Plc is €678.26 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Third Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €589.54 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Tenth Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €344.28 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Twelfth Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €321.26 per share.


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    #290
    antietam1
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭antietam1


    Of course we are going to move on, doesn't bother me to explore options see what other people think.


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    #291
    dan1981
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭dan1981


    Cmfitz wrote: »
    Hi I could contracted them and this is what they advised.
    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€634.85 initial investment) in the Third Irish Forestry Fund Plc is €678.26 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Third Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €589.54 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Tenth Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €344.28 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Twelfth Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €321.26 per share.

    Initial investment + dividend seems to be Shareholders Funds divided by redeemable preference shares as per my table on Friday. Perhaps less a small cost of about a fiver. So there we go....
    dan1981 wrote: »
    Page 12 seems to set out what the Shareholders Funds are after the sale. Does shareholder funds divided by the number of shares per fund indicate the potential return?

    If so....

    updatedfigs.png


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    #292
    Count Hairyfoot
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Count Hairyfoot


    This thread took an odd turn.

    So people now want to congratulate Veon and the team for taking a commission on the premature sale of THEIR asset and for ensuring Veon continue to get paid a management fee each year without having to deal with those pesky small investors, while the investors themselves are being screwed out of thousands.

    Yep thanks Paul - good job!


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    #293
    Movementarian
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭Movementarian


    Cmfitz wrote: »
    Hi I could contracted them and this is what they advised.
    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€634.85 initial investment) in the Third Irish Forestry Fund Plc is €678.26 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Third Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €589.54 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Tenth Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €344.28 per share.

    The dividend paid on a single redeemable preference share (€750 initial investment) in the Twelfth Forestry Growth Plan Plc is €321.26 per share.

    Is that dividend per annum?


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    #294
    dan1981
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭dan1981


    Movementarian wrote: »
    Is that dividend per annum?

    LOL


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    #295
    paris24
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭paris24


    All joking and moaning aside..... does anyone want to challenge this and if so how?


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    #296
    dan1981
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭dan1981


    paris24 wrote: »
    All joking and moaning aside..... does anyone want to challenge this and if so how?

    I outlined some avenues. I think we should wait until we have cheques but people want anything done those people will have to do something.

    I think it would be a mistake to allow exhaustion from the process last week (or the past 20 years!) cloud letting this go.


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    #297
    F.Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭F.Grimes


    ...


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    #298
    F.Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭F.Grimes


    dan1981 wrote: »
    I outlined some avenues. I think we should wait until we have cheques but people want anything done those people will have to do something.

    I think it would be a mistake to allow exhaustion from the process last week (or the past 20 years!) cloud letting this go.

    All joking aside! Totally agree and support


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    #299
    st1979
    Registered Users Posts: 936 ✭✭✭st1979


    Am reading this with interest. Am a farmer who 20yrs ago considered buying a share or 2 but didn't.
    Don't know if you were shafted or not with your return. But definitely the growth they originally spoke of was unachievable.
    I am only plucking figures from the air and already on this thread
    They bought land for 1k an acre. So that was costing 2 shares. Clearfell price today is 6-8k an acre. Then the land is left over to be sold on. This land has to be replanted with no subsidies forever more. I would imagine it's worth around 2k at that point.
    Government paid for the planting. And gave subsidy of around 100 an acre for 15 years. That was probably soaked up in administration fees of the fund and (probably) inflated maintenance costs of the forest and insurance etc.

    Whatever you get this week may be the correct value. But you were never going to achieve 28k per share. You were misled the first day.

    I have neighbours planting good land worth over 10k an acre. Because they have the belief that they are going to make a fortune. As timber is worth 8k an acre and they get the calculator and compound that figure by 6% inflation by 30 years and that must mean they will have a clearfell value of 45k an acre plus 15 years of subsidy of 200 an acre. So they make 48k an acre in 30 years so over 1500 a year. Which is better than any farming return.

    The reality is their land went from being worth 10k to about 2 or 3k (more valuable than ifs land as it's not in the middle of nowhere but still) and we can all take a value for corn milk beef whatever and multiply it compound inflation.
    And their land will always have to be replanted with no future subsidy.
    As a farmer its like building houses on it. The land is never going to become available ever again to rent or buy to expand my dairy farm. It's forever gone.


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    #300
    F.Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭F.Grimes


    st1979 wrote: »
    Am reading this with interest. Am a farmer who 20yrs ago considered buying a share or 2 but didn't.
    Don't know if you were shafted or not with your return. But definitely the growth they originally spoke of was unachievable.
    I am only plucking figures from the air and already on this thread
    They bought land for 1k an acre. So that was costing 2 shares. Clearfell price today is 6-8k an acre. Then the land is left over to be sold on. This land has to be replanted with no subsidies forever more. I would imagine it's worth around 2k at that point.
    Government paid for the planting. And gave subsidy of around 100 an acre for 15 years. That was probably soaked up in administration fees of the fund and (probably) inflated maintenance costs of the forest and insurance etc.

    Whatever you get this week may be the correct value. But you were never going to achieve 28k per share. You were misled the first day.

    I have neighbours planting good land worth over 10k an acre. Because they have the belief that they are going to make a fortune. As timber is worth 8k an acre and they get the calculator and compound that figure by 6% inflation by 30 years and that must mean they will have a clearfell value of 45k an acre plus 15 years of subsidy of 200 an acre. So they make 48k an acre in 30 years so over 1500 a year. Which is better than any farming return.

    The reality is their land went from being worth 10k to about 2 or 3k (more valuable than ifs land as it's not in the middle of nowhere but still) and we can all take a value for corn milk beef whatever and multiply it compound inflation.
    And their land will always have to be replanted with no future subsidy.
    As a farmer its like building houses on it. The land is never going to become available ever again to rent or buy to expand my dairy farm. It's forever gone.


    Excuse my ignorance but how can land that was bought for €1k per acre, suddenly loss value because it was used for forestry for 20odd years?

    Much like the buildings you talked about you can knock the building down ( much like felling trees) and the land is usable again. It’s not gone forever


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    #301
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    st1979 wrote: »
    Am reading this with interest. Am a farmer who 20yrs ago considered buying a share or 2 but didn't.
    Don't know if you were shafted or not with your return. But definitely the growth they originally spoke of was unachievable.
    I am only plucking figures from the air and already on this thread
    They bought land for 1k an acre. So that was costing 2 shares. Clearfell price today is 6-8k an acre. Then the land is left over to be sold on. This land has to be replanted with no subsidies forever more. I would imagine it's worth around 2k at that point.
    Government paid for the planting. And gave subsidy of around 100 an acre for 15 years. That was probably soaked up in administration fees of the fund and (probably) inflated maintenance costs of the forest and insurance etc.

    Whatever you get this week may be the correct value. But you were never going to achieve 28k per share. You were misled the first day.

    I have neighbours planting good land worth over 10k an acre. Because they have the belief that they are going to make a fortune. As timber is worth 8k an acre and they get the calculator and compound that figure by 6% inflation by 30 years and that must mean they will have a clearfell value of 45k an acre plus 15 years of subsidy of 200 an acre. So they make 48k an acre in 30 years so over 1500 a year. Which is better than any farming return.

    The reality is their land went from being worth 10k to about 2 or 3k (more valuable than ifs land as it's not in the middle of nowhere but still) and we can all take a value for corn milk beef whatever and multiply it compound inflation.
    And their land will always have to be replanted with no future subsidy.
    As a farmer its like building houses on it. The land is never going to become available ever again to rent or buy to expand my dairy farm. It's forever gone.

    Partially true.

    You wouldn't use expensive arable 10k/acre land for forestry. You would use 2k/acre (or whatever). And, being replanted with the same crop in 30 years time, it's value would be no less then, at a minimum.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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