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Ireland's asylum hotel monthly bill tops €3.54m

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    #212
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Boggles wrote: »
    The exact same nonsense was peddled when the Eastern Europeans joined us.
    We have just moved on to Africans now.
    It's boring, you need a new shtick.

    Eastern europeans as you call them joined the EU legally, and as such rightfully have the right to work and travel within the EU. This is no issue, nor has it ever been since expansion.

    Africans as you directly single out (forgetting about Asia & Mid-east) are not part of the EU and unlikely to be within the next 25-30yrs (pending the Barca' agreement progress).

    So what's your nonsense point, just allow in anyone from anywhere and hope for the best (as a global recession looms and brexit is ready to cost 100,000 jobs) because it's getting really, really boring and you need a new big sthick to bang.

    Why not take up concern melting icebergs, plastic bags or something else for a change. Unless of course you have some 'open door' agenda to peddle.


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    #213
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Eastern europeans as you call them joined the EU legally, and as such rightfully have the right to work and travel within the EU. This is no issue, nor has it ever been since expansion.

    Africans as you directly single out (forgetting about Asia & Mid-east) are not part of the EU and unlikely to be within the next 25-30yrs (pending the Barca' agreement progress).

    So what's your nonsense point, just allow in anyone from anywhere and hope for the best (as a global recession looms and brexit is ready to cost 100,000 jobs) because it's getting really, really boring and you need a new big sthick to bang.

    Why not take up concern melting icebergs, plastic bags or something else for a change. Unless of course you have some 'open door' agenda to peddle.
    Oh no, you didn't!
    I put that particular poster on ignore ages ago when I realised that this is exactly what he was trying to peddle. Anyone who doesn't agree with his open-door views are called ...... guess what? ...................... yep, a racist.


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    #214
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,861 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    mfceiling wrote: »
    I was doing a fit out in East point business park and the labourer was a Lithuanian guy with no english. He was knocking down old stud walls. There was one wall with live services that was to be left untouched. He was told not to touch the wall and 2 minutes later he demolished the wall, taking out a heap of phone lines, the power to the floor and it fell on a lad from Balbriggan twisting his knee and putting him out of work for 6 weeks.

    Because Irish people never do stupid things on building sites? :)
    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Eastern europeans as you call them joined the EU legally, and as such rightfully have the right to work and travel within the EU.

    Like I said it didn't stopped the same types peddling nonsense.
    Kivaro wrote: »
    Oh no, you didn't!
    I put that particular poster on ignore ages ago

    You have a lot of people on ignore.

    Strange that.


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    #215
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Boggles wrote: »
    Because Irish people never do stupid things on building sites? :)
    /quote]

    Do you work in the public sector behind a desk?


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    #216
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    There is one in a rural town close to my home house with 18 people. The hotel owner is actually a scumbag who was the type to be posting anti migrant messages on twitter and Facebook.

    I say "was" because now that he is being paid a small fortune he has morphed into Bono or some other similar type fruitcake.

    Money talks

    I've always said this was a money making scam. If property owners and Govt officials weren't enriching themselves off this then this whole refugee scam would have been shut down years ago.


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    #217
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    JohnMc1 wrote: »
    I've always said this was a money making scam. If property owners and Govt officials weren't enriching themselves off this then this whole refugee scam would have been shut down years ago.

    And the legal profession and charity industry as well.


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    #218
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    And the legal profession and charity industry as well.

    Yes. They've definitely benefited too.


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    #219
    SchrodingersCat
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Surely, you do not expect us to believe what an alliance of 104 NGOs across Europe is publishing?
    It would be the same as if a poster of the opposite spectrum posted a link to a far-right site.

    By the way, regarding the source of your information:
    It is an organisation that protects and advances the rights of refugees, asylum seekers, and displaced persons.

    The first paragraph on the page tells you where the statistics come from.

    Since January 2017, the International Protection Office (IPO) is responsible for receiving and examining applications. The IPO publishes brief monthly statistical reports on international protection applications.

    The IPO is the Irish government office for the processing of asylum applications.


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    #220
    SchrodingersCat
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    Here is an interesting statistic here that I found. In 2018, ~70% of asylum application appeals were affirmed, i.e. not overturned.
    Applicants for asylum went up from 1,448 in 2014 to 3,673 in 2018. Overall, they are down from a peak of 11,000 in 2002.

    http://www.protectionappeals.ie/website/rat/ratweb.nsf/page/MXKY-BD3BPP9152412-en/$File/IPAT%20Annual%20Report%202018.pdf

    To recap from before, ~30% of asylum applications are successful.


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    #221
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Costs are expected to rise by over €45 million (or 58%) next year.
    Here is an interesting statistic: The main reason for the cost increase is an expected 40% rise in asylum cases this year, following on from a 20% increase last year.
    No problem, money grows on trees.
    A relaxation of rules on asylum seekers' right to work and more State-owned direct provision centres are among a number of proposals being recommended to cope with an 'upsurge' in refugee claims.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0815/1069049-direct-provision-review/
    An open invitation of sorts. Don't worry about the effects of Brexit (-100k jobs), lack of housing and the DowJones taking a dive this month (flirting with a new global recession), sure'll be grand.


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    #222
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Costs are expected to rise by over €45 million (or 58%) next year.
    Here is an interesting statistic: The main reason for the cost increase is an expected 40% rise in asylum cases this year, following on from a 20% increase last year.
    No problem, money grows on trees.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0815/1069049-direct-provision-review/
    An open invitation of sorts. Don't worry about the effects of Brexit (-100k jobs), lack of housing and the DowJones taking a dive this month (flirting with a new global recession), sure'll be grand.

    I'm not opposed to immigration, a certain amount of it paying attention to the right mix of skills we need is good for the economy and society - but the way we're handling it is crazy.


    Half the country will be Deliveroo cyclists and Subway sandwich artists living in 12 bed dorm rooms by mid-way through the next decade.


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    #223
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Boggles wrote: »
    Because Irish people never do stupid things on building sites? :)

    Irish people have and will do stupid things on building sites but it's becoming more prevalent now that you must speak English to work on site. All safety meetings are null and void if you have people on site who don't understand that an area contains live electrical services or that an area is out of bounds due to it not being safe to work in. It's common sense that a person working in a country that speaks English must have some grasp of the language...Mind you nowadays common sense isn't that common.


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    #224
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    magma69 wrote: »
    The "what about our own homeless" crowd generally don't give a monkey's about our homeless and do **** all to help the homeless. It's about bashing asylum seekers.

    I suppose you could say that about any argument, really.

    • The people complaining about the cost of the new children's hospital don't give a monkey's about sick children and do **** all to help sick people. It's about bashing the government.
    • The people complaining about the cost of bailing out the banks don't give a monkey's about people with sub-prime mortgages and do **** all to help people in arrears. It's about bashing the white collar employees.
    • The anti-water tax protesters didn't give a monkey's about private ownership of resources or low income families and do **** all to help people who are struggling with their bills. It was about them bashing people with high wages.
    • The people criticizing the recent proposal to build in Dublin bay don't give a monkey's about the environment or natural beauty of the bay, and do **** all to help the environment. It is about them bashing people looking for affordable housing.



    Do you see what the problem is there? I mean, you have a point, but it's being used to redirect the conversation. This is prime ad-hominem, using a sweeping statement about people, and criticizing their motives, not their arguments.

    The debate should be able to stand on its own merits.

    And of course, when someone responded to an ad-hominem attack by giving evidence that the attack was false, that was dismissed by another poster with
    nthclare wrote: »
    Whoopi doo

    Because facts in this case didn't suit their agenda.


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    #225
    SchrodingersCat
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Not having a go but what jobs?

    There's very few unskilled jobs for people with no grasp of English. A lot of these migrants could find themselves being hugely exploited by unscrupulous employers in a job that offers no security and minimum wage.

    I keep hearing the "let them work" argument. How many jobs have we currently for someone who speaks little to no English?

    I think its unfair to say that they have no grasp of English. Take Syria for example. English is taught in schools in Grade 1 in primary school. Secondly, for the first 8 months before they can work, Asylum seekers are given additional English lessons while they are under Direct Provision in Ireland.


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    #226
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    SchrodingersCat wrote: »
    I think its unfair to say that they have no grasp of English. Take Syria for example. English is taught in schools in Grade 1 in primary school. Secondly, for the first 8 months before they can work, Asylum seekers are given additional English lessons while they are under Direct Provision in Ireland.

    Totally fair point. I'm talking about unskilled migrants with no english arriving here and somehow we're being told we need them to fill the gaps in the labour market.


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    #227
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,861 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Totally fair point. I'm talking about unskilled migrants with no english arriving here and somehow we're being told we need them to fill the gaps in the labour market.

    Who said that?


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    #228
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Boggles wrote: »
    Who said that?
    Are you claiming then they're mostly skilled with good literacy?

    It's not outlandish to presume most may need basic literacy and language training. That's actually a good thing if has high uptake (unlike Denmark which had to force language and custom/values training in it's ghettos).

    Again costs money and time, good trainers/teachers don't work for free.

    Most likely aren't Syrians anyway, even then not sure if they're anywhere close to fluent. Met a poor Syrian lad in the corner shop pointing to a packet of eggs last year, took 10mins to work out he wanted some eggs bought, no problem he looked underfed so handed them to him outside. Better a packet of eggs than a shandy anyway.

    Also hard to assume how they'll fill jobs, when losses are expected after Oct.
    oNI9gqH.png


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    #229
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,861 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Most likely aren't Syrians anyway, even then not sure if they're anywhere close to fluent. Met a poor Syrian lad in the corner shop pointing to a packet of eggs last year, took 10mins to work out he wanted some eggs bought, no problem he looked underfed so handed them to him outside. Better a packet of eggs than a shandy anyway.

    Jaysus, the fabricated story's are getting weirder.


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    #230
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    .........

    Most likely aren't Syrians anyway, even then not sure if they're anywhere close to fluent. Met a poor Syrian lad in the corner shop pointing to a packet of eggs last year, took 10mins to work out he wanted some eggs bought, no problem he looked underfed so handed them to him outside. Better a packet of eggs than a shandy anyway.

    Also hard to assume how they'll fill jobs, when losses are expected after Oct.
    oNI9gqH.png

    Fellow points at some eggs and it took 10 minutes to work out what he wanted?

    What did they think he wanted? Washing powder?

    Probably an Irish shop assistant.


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    #231
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Allinall wrote: »
    Fellow points at some eggs and it took 10 minutes to work out what he wanted?
    What did they think he wanted? Washing powder?
    Probably an Irish shop assistant.
    Indeed, the poor chap didn't have a single word of english, not one.

    It was all hand gestures pointing nodding and smiling. The first few minuites was all pointing at the shelves, then focusing on the eggs, then signalling him what eggs were, then checking the date - thumbs up, repeating the price in case he wanted that, the only feedback was more silent pointing and nodding.

    Was about to head onto the next isle to continue shopping, when it clicked the lad was looking for someone to purchase them for him (more pointing towards the shop till), no problem would buy anyone a box of eggs.

    Unlike the other 'professional operators' on the streets right outside: Roma lady rattling a container shouting 'change', and a junkie with dog on string and cardboard signage already looking too far stoned.


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    #232
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,861 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Indeed, the poor chap didn't have a single word of english, not one.

    Really? How did you know he was Syrian?
    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Met a poor Syrian lad


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    #233
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Boggles wrote: »
    Really? How did you know he was Syrian?
    Two houses in the very same close locality (aross the road from said shop, and 300meters away had a load placed in them the same month.

    There is also a basic process of elimination, whereby you can exculde many other likely nations.

    The question is, what sort of future beckons for him if it took an age to comprehend he was looking a box of eggs. Sure, he may do something worthwhile in 5/10yrs, but won't be paying for anyones pension anytime soon.


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    #234
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,861 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Two houses in the very same close locality (aross the road from said shop, and 300meters away had a load placed in them the same month.

    There is also a basic process of elimination, whereby you can exculde many other likely nations.

    The question is, what sort of future beckons for him if it took an age to comprehend he was looking a box of eggs. Sure, he may do something worthwhile in 5/10yrs, but won't be paying for anyones pension anytime soon.

    I'd say he'll be grand, mainly because he doesn't exist.


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    #235
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Boggles wrote: »
    I'd say he'll be grand, mainly because he doesn't exist.
    Maybe in your mind, if it somehow suits your agenda to think so.

    He existed/exists and is by all accounts was/is hungry, appeared malnourished and somewhat abandoned, if left resorting to some sort of casual sign-language to ask shoppers for basic goods.

    On the plus side, eggs are likely one of the single best sources of nutrition there is, and perhaps the best choice inside a small supermarket.
    If you were getting dumped in a foreign land with no resources or ability to thrive, souring a simple box of eggs under your arm is as good a move as any.


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    #236
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,861 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Maybe in your mind, if it somehow suits your agenda to think so.

    :D

    Too much.


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    #237
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Just because one person doesn't see it, that doesn't make it untrue....


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    #238
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »
    Met a poor Syrian lad in the corner shop pointing to a packet of eggs last year, took 10mins to work out he wanted some eggs bought, no problem he looked underfed so handed them to him outside. Better a packet of eggs than a shandy anyway.

    Nice story. This reminded me of a similar one that I was involved in.
    I was sitting in the park reading a restaurant review in my Irish Times newspaper when I realised that I was feeling a bit peckish. Finishing off my cup of tea, I took a wander down to my local corner shop were there were three well fed Syrian twelve year old children sitting outside in the sun. As I made my way past, I couldn't help but notice that one of them was reading our very own James Joyce's Ulysses. I continued to make my way but now staring in disbelievement, I clumsily knocked the book from his hands. Picked it up while muttering an apology. I saw that he had made notes on the headers of the pages. In these, he was comparing the parallels of the novel to Homer’s Odyssey. His eyes made contact with me and beamed 'That's all right, old chap. apology accepted' and took the novel from my hands.
    Meanwhile, noticing my ungainliness, the second Syrian broke into a full rendition of the H.M.S. Pinafore opera to ease the awkwardness. I turned and quickly entered the shop. Still speechless, I pointed at some eggs which the shop keeper bagged and I paid for without needing to say a word. Passing by the Syrians a second time, the third one called after me. Turning around, he handed me my newspaper which I had dropped in our encounter just two minutes prior. I thanked him profusely, apologiesed again and shuffled back to the safety of my seat in the park.
    After I sat, I opened my box of eggs. To keep myself entertained while slurping on my protein filled lunch I leafed through the Irish Times to the Cryptic Crosaire Crossword. Much to my amazement, the crossword had been freshly completed. The bastard had penciled in all the answers while I was in the shop.

    The point of my story is that at worst, your story is complete bollocks. At best, it is anecdotal evidence.


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    #239
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    McHardcore wrote: »
    The point of my story is ...
    That your story is largely unreadable gibberish? Congrats to anyone (not me) who decided to read that whole random, and pointless blurb of word vomit.


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    #240
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,633 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Gatling wrote: »
    It's costs between 250- 500 million per annum to house asylum seekers here ,
    And that's before medical and educational supports and then there's the free legal aid bill too

    **** me. Honestly given our debt mountain every single asylum seeker should be sent home and no more taken in. Such a waste of money and so many Irish homeless themselves.


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    #241
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I was glad to see a positive story from the Irish asylum seeking system in Ireland.

    It just shows that there is great potential human resources coming from places like syria, where young smart hard working families are begging for an opportunity to thrive, despite language and public perception obstacles. Fair play to those that supported this family.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/student-who-came-to-ireland-from-syria-with-little-english-gets-602-leaving-cert-points-1.3990071


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