The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

blanch152 wrote: »

The seven All-Irelands between 2003 and 2009, the golden era of competitiveness according to you, were all won by either Tyrone or Kerry.

It would only have taken a few kicks of the ball to say the same about 2013-2019 with Dublin and Mayo being the two. The fact that this Dublin team are just that little bit better than any of the teams of the last 60-70 years makes the four-in-a-row exceptional and is cruel on Mayo. However, as Daragh O'Se put it in the Irish Times, the scoreboard tells the story.

The standard of football this decade, certainly as played by Dublin, is far higher than the standard of football played by those Kerry and Tyrone teams.

Looking back, 2012 and 2014 were the two years that Mayo let it slip.

2016 as well they blew it that year.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah but you were missing the key point no Leinster team contested an all-Ireland final from 2002-2010 what does that tell you about the standard of Leinster?

Plus it is even worse when you consider the back door started in 2001, in football.

I remember Jarlath Burns used to say Down would win Leinster! (Used to rile me up - but he was probably right)

So was it good just because it was competitive and the standard was lower?
Rather than less competitive with a higher standard now from Dublin ?

Meath and Kildare should be taking a real hard look at themselves they are some of the causes for non-competitive leinster now.

I agree with you on that. Both Meath and Kildare are rich counties with a good playing population. Their County boards should have the level of influence to maxmise funding from all sources. Kildare have had some underage success and now after taking Jack O Connor look like they mean business

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Mayo will need to re-build, but the reliance on older players, or the lack of younger ones, is often exaggerated. I don't think they'll be winning Sam soon, but Mayo shouldn't totally fade away.

Like every other county, they will revert to the norm. That should mean two or three Connacht titles a decade and the occasional tilt at an All-Ireland like Don Quixote.

blanch152 wrote: »

Like every other county, they will revert to the norm. That should mean two or three Connacht titles a decade and the occasional tilt at an All-Ireland like Don Quixote.

Two or three would not be a great return outside the 1970s.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Tyrone had a poor year in 2004. They lost to Mayo in the quarter finals.

I had forgotten that they went out to Laois in 2006. That result is bizarre looking back on it.

I think Tyrone were always poor the year they were defending. Meath knocked them out in 2007 too.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah but you were missing the key point no Leinster team contested an all-Ireland final from 2002-2010 what does that tell you about the standard of Leinster?

Plus it is even worse when you consider the back door started in 2001, in football.

I remember Jarlath Burns used to say Down would win Leinster! (Used to rile me up - but he was probably right)

So was it good just because it was competitive and the standard was lower?
Rather than less competitive with a higher standard now from Dublin ?

Meath and Kildare should be taking a real hard look at themselves they are some of the causes for non-competitive leinster now.

Of course the reason was that Dublin were of lower standard. Now they've gone to unreachable heights and it's desperate as a spectacle. I think I speak for everybody outside Dublin that they'd much rather Dublin were worse so we could return to the days when leinster was a fantastic competition.

Meath and Kildare are top 12 teams and are doing decent. If we had your population, your funding and many of your special advantages I reckon we'd be better then Dublin. So jump down off that high horse.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Charlie McCreevey was a great man for helping out Kildare

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/lilywhites-tackle-200000-deficit-172693.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/minister-sees-promised-land-1.195588?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fminister-sees-promised-land-1.195588

https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=433.45

https://www.the42.ie/snapshot-charlie-mccreevy-on-the-bench-for-kildare-u21s-878045-Apr2013/

Big supporter of the K club as well

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mccreevy-used-1-6m-loan-for-a-luxury-k-club-home-26593982.html

What exactly do any of those links prove apart from the fact Kildare have always struggled financially. If only AIG would sponsor them or if the GAA would give them 20M.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Since 2013 to this year Dublin have won 2 u20/21's and Kildare have one 1 in 2018.

Since 2013 - Dublin have not even contested an AI minor final

Since 2013 to this year Kildare have won 4 out of 7 Lienster Minor titles. - Dublin 2 - and Meath 1


So things are bubbling underneath in the last few years so.
I think Kildare had the players to do more a few years ago - but the management ruined them - when that defensive football was in vogue

The most relevant underage grade is u20/21. Dublin have been very dominant in Leinster over the last 10 years and by far the most succesful in the AI series. You can cherry pick last year but Dublin have on average the best u21/u20 team coming through.

On the hurling, why do you keep denying that Dublin hurling hasn't been more successful since the doping began? Even a blind man can see hurling in the capital has been more successful. It's now at a decent base where if built on Dublin could well win a hurling AI.

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

If Dublin are weak they get a football review committee, de Bert pumping money into underage, professionally trained coaches and organisers in every club, huge support and a plan in place for increased participation, huge money thrown at them by the GAA etc etc.

Now Dublin have by far surpassed every one of the chasing pack, but everybody else has to "take a long hard look at themselves"? The onus is on Kildare and Meath have to figure out a way to compete with other sports for players, and compete in Leinster without all this support and funding Dublin get. Im not sure how you can't see that as an issue regardless of the colour of your jersey. "Let them eat cake" springs to mind!

He can see it he just can't admit it. He doesn't want the incoming 5 in a row to be downplayed so the Dublin defense force has gone full voltron.

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

If Dublin are weak they get a football review committee, de Bert pumping money into underage, professionally trained coaches and organisers in every club, huge support and a plan in place for increased participation, huge money thrown at them by the GAA etc etc.

Now Dublin have by far surpassed every one of the chasing pack, but everybody else has to "take a long hard look at themselves"? The onus is on Kildare and Meath have to figure out a way to compete with other sports for players, and compete in Leinster without all this support and funding Dublin get. Im not sure how you can't see that as an issue regardless of the colour of your jersey. "Let them eat cake" springs to mind!

Kildare and Meath county boards - could amalgamate happens at club level where parishes no longer get the numbers - the 'Lilly-Royals' that name alone should bring in the big shampoo companies queuing up as sponsors!

Plus Meath let themselves drop into div 2 for over a decade I suppose that was Dublin's fault as well was it?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Kildare and Meath could amalgamate happens at club level where parishes no longer get the numbers - the 'Lilly-Royals' that name alone should bring in the big shampoo companies!

They could amalgamate for sponsorship purposes but if you go down this route you'd have to amalgamate everybody in Leinster to give the Dubs a close game. Far easier to split Dublin.

Your county is going to keep increasing at a faster rate then outside Dublin. If you think its bad now just imagine how big the gap will be in 30 years. The great thing is it's only a matter of time until you are either split or counties refuse to play you. Enjoy your success while it lasts.

It will be a gold mine for the GAA having a Dublin Derby.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Such funding would have to account for ALL funding, including sponsorship. And would have to take into account long term averages i.e Dublin would have to be underfunded for many years to make up for their overfunding over the last few years.

The only whinging really is from Dublin fans when people point out their advantages- justified criticism of one team having all the advantages isn't whinging.



Hey I'm not saying I have all the answers to dealing the Croke Park issue. Dublin should still be forced to play more games away from home but there is still the obvious problem of the final and how demand is facilitated for that.

The semi final will cease to be a problem in a few years when no-one is bothered going to the semis so you could easily house the <50000 attendance in Cork or Limerick.



No the first thing is to split Dublin, ideally into 4 teams. Amalgamation can be considered some years after that. A rivalry would quickly develop between the four teams and it's definitely something that supporters all across the country could get behind, including in Dublin.

The main reasons for Dublin's recent success is of course their financial doping combined with population. The effects of the financial doping are likely to be long lasting so the best way to deal with this is to disperse the doping effects among several different teams rather than just one. Obviously it would have been better to prevent this situation developing in the first place but we have to deal with things as they are.



Population is an advantage- whether people take full benefit of it or not is another matter.

Once you pass Stillorgan Cuala is the only club with a senior set up. Shankill are working at juvenile level and Patrick Morans at junior level. Soccer and rugby still take a lot of players
throughout Dublin.

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

It doesn't matter who the driver is, you shouldn't be giving a Ferrari to anybody when you are giving their competitors Ford Cortinas.

Ah but you can do up a ford cortina and give it a decent engine..
Some people do not maintain thier cars and let it fail the NCT.
Look at the work Tyrone put in compared to Meath and Tryone are under occupation.
Tyrone have all these centres and acadamies

https://www.the42.ie/tyrone-garvaghey-project-1124677-Oct2013/

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You were doing so well - I was agreeing with you until you you said a rivalry would quickly develop between the four teams - not true one bit.

It's absolutely true a rivalry would develop. People wouldn't lose interest because the championship has become a lot fairer and more competitive. The rivalry that exist between different parts of Dublin would play well in the inter-county competition.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

More likely attendances would plummet - sponsors would run for cover - and opposition teams will not care about beating these new entities.
The GAA would be in financial meltdown.

Attendances are plummeting because of Dublin's unfair advantages providing a platform for their dominance. The GAA will soon be in financial meltdown because of it- Just think, they may not even have the money to give Dublin millions more than everyone else some day soon! Steps to deal with this problem would probably have the opposite effect.

Opposition teams would care as the much coveted Sam Maguire trophy would still be there for the taking.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus the logistics would be a nightmare.
It would be much easier to amalgamate smaller counties - as the current admins could run different parts of the new entities.

Logistics would be very easy- certain clubs would fall under Dublin North, others under Dublin South, East and West (or whatever the four way split is).

Amalgamated counties such as Sligo/Leitrim/ Roscommon would be unable to beat the financially doped Dubs in the current state of affairs so it would be pointless. Better to split Dublin to level the playing field first.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I notice you are still continuing with your mantra the 'financial doping' is the main reason for success for Dublin - when I suspect you know perfectly well it is not.
Players cannot be purchased in the GAA so the phrase financial doping is moot for a start. Also you refused to recognise the efficiency of Dublin GAA - how they were underachieving after mismanagement - now they have not only returned to the mean where they should be - they have surpassed it through a superb group of players, and manager.

No, financial doping is the main reason but there are other reasons too, mostly unfair that I agree are also contributing.

Financial doping helps to develop players into better footballers than would be possible otherwise.

Money helps bring results in modern sport- this is obvious to 99.9% of people who follow sport, any sport, in the 21st century.

I recognise that Dublin are less likely to blow their unfair advantages than previously, but given how many they have, their current dominance is really all that should be expected.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

For you yourself have said population should give Dublin an advantage alone - yet between 1983-2010 Dublin only won two AI's in 17 years
If you follow your logic Dublin's population advantage, playing at home, finances etc should have yielded far more.
You have to admit that. Yet you seem to ignore it.

I don't have to admit anything of the sort because it's utter tripe. It's more likely that without their unfair advantages that Dublin would have had even less success.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You also have not answered the reason why 'financial doping' as you put it has not translated to success in Senior inter-county hurling. Not even a final contested for Liam McCarthy. Plus not only that the pool of competition in hurling is smaller so the financial might of Dublin should surely see Dublin win Liam much easier than the Sam in football?

.

Have you read this thread? Actually read it and absorbed it. Honestly. It's been pointed out countless times how the hurlers in Dublin have come on leaps and bounds since the financial doping started.

Have a read back there and contemplate this new information, before replying to this.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So therefore it is only reasonable to conclude that it is not as simplistic as you like to make it appear. There are many more variables besides finances.

Finance is the most important thing but I agree there are more variables- unfortunately these variables are all also stacked unfairly in Dublin's favour.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is before we even get to club football which Corofin dominate currently - Dublin club football has underachieved.
How do you explain that?
A Longford team , Roscommon team and Wicklow team beating Dublin club champions in football.
It was not a decade ago those defeats happened either they were in close proximity.

Mullinaghta 2019 beat Kilmacud C.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mullinalaghta-stun-kilmacud-crokes-to-take-leinster-crown-1.3725212

Rathnew 2017 beat Vinnies

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/stafford-salvo-stuns-vinnies-on-dream-day-for-rathnew-36313294.html

Brigids 2013 beat Ballymun

https://www.the42.ie/st-brigids-ballymun-kickhams-2-835832-Mar2013/

.

Club football is different to the inter-county game. Financial doping still has an effect but I agree not to the same extent.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The fact you do not praise the players and management. Suggests to me you have an inherent bias - which is making you blinkered to the other variables you have not listed.

Your logic just does not 'add up'.

The players are good but they've been massively helped by the money. It's also easier to find 15 players when you have one million + to choose from (Awaiting your response saying there is competition from other sports in Dublin, which is true in every other county).

Nothing less should be expected than the current dominance for the Dublin management though given how skewed things are in their favour.

I think you'll find that you're the biased one my little sky blue and navy friend. Please don't blitz straight back in with a response- try to read this post and others and actually digest them. It gets tiresome having to debunk the same half baked Dublin yarns over and over.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

You'd be at the level of Laois every year if you didn't get singled out for special money treatment 16 years ago.

Pure speculation.

Cuala are not Dublin champs so clearly not the only Oasis.

Dublin were 1 point off making the leinster final this year vs wexford. If they'd beaten kilkenny by a point instead of drawn it would have been a Wexford Dublin final. The reality is you are right up there with the top teams. Only issue is there's about 7 teams around your level making it very hard to be the champs in Leinster or the AI.

Not true it took a last minute peno to get an undeserved draw v Wexford for a start in Parnell.

And this is a good thing. The day Dublin start dominating the hurling and the football together is the day the association dies. Fortunately it will probably take over 20 year's before Dublin could dominate hurling too. Fortunately.

Why would it take 20 years if money is the answer. They have never contested an AI intercounty final in my lifetime.
Surely 15 years of 'financial doping' would have reaped real rewards at this stage?
Only a league against a depleted KK in 2011 and a leinster title against a disinterested Galway 2013 to show for it.
Plus the Dublin hurlers are really dependent on the tight Parnell pitch outside of it they really struggle.
Also surely hurling needs more decent county teams it only has six/eight at push?

Now I know you'd probably say oh aren't they a joy to watch, we should consider ourselves lucky to watch this great Dublin hurling team. But I'll say bollix, I want the good old days back.

The Dublin hurling team a joy to watch? First time I heard that said.

The good old days when Dublin were underachieving? Anybody But Dublin?