blanch152 wrote: » The seven All-Irelands between 2003 and 2009, the golden era of competitiveness according to you, were all won by either Tyrone or Kerry. It would only have taken a few kicks of the ball to say the same about 2013-2019 with Dublin and Mayo being the two. The fact that this Dublin team are just that little bit better than any of the teams of the last 60-70 years makes the four-in-a-row exceptional and is cruel on Mayo. However, as Daragh O'Se put it in the Irish Times, the scoreboard tells the story. The standard of football this decade, certainly as played by Dublin, is far higher than the standard of football played by those Kerry and Tyrone teams. Looking back, 2012 and 2014 were the two years that Mayo let it slip.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Most would have said Kerry/Tyrone based on previous form. But you are right you would not have been considered mad if you thought in Armagh/Galway In the next decade I assume it will just be people saying Kerry/Dublin (if Dublin keep Jim) after that it will be pot luck Whichever form team emerges: - maybe Cork, maybe Tyrone if they change manager, and Donegal will be there or there abouts. Mayo will have to rebuild - Galway need an attacking manager - Meath need a few forwards.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Yeah but you were missing the key point no Leinster team contested an all-Ireland final from 2002-2010 what does that tell you about the standard of Leinster? Plus it is even worse when you consider the back door started in 2001, in football. I remember Jarlath Burns used to say Down would win Leinster! (Used to rile me up - but he was probably right) So was it good just because it was competitive and the standard was lower? Rather than less competitive with a higher standard now from Dublin ? Meath and Kildare should be taking a real hard look at themselves they are some of the causes for non-competitive leinster now.
Edgware wrote: » I agree with you on that. Both Meath and Kildare are rich counties with a good playing population. Their County boards should have the level of influence to maxmise funding from all sources. Kildare have had some underage success and now after taking Jack O Connor look like they mean business
Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: » Mayo will need to re-build, but the reliance on older players, or the lack of younger ones, is often exaggerated. I don't think they'll be winning Sam soon, but Mayo shouldn't totally fade away.
blanch152 wrote: » Like every other county, they will revert to the norm. That should mean two or three Connacht titles a decade and the occasional tilt at an All-Ireland like Don Quixote.
gaffer91 wrote: » This thread seems to be veering a little off topic again- the question isn't whether things were more or less competitive 15 years ago than today. The outcome is actually not the ultimate issue. If Dublin maintained their funding/ population and home pitch advantages for every game, but only finished the season in the qualifiers every year, these unfair leg- ups would still need to be rectified.
rebel girl 15 wrote: » Ladies club football is wrong and if you are only counting senior and not other grades it’s two AI and 4 Leinsters afaik - Foxrock lost last year’s final but you have to go back to 93 and 94 for the last time they won a senior All Ireland, which is what you have for the men’s competitions. 2 senior club All Ireland - Ballyboden x2, 4 senior Leinsters but could be more 1 intermediate All Ireland - Clontarf plus at least 4 Leinster 3 junior All Ireland plus at least four Leinsters
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Well I suggest an EU type contribution thing on percentage basis of turnover for example. The whinging would stop.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » The home advantage thing? Well someone has to get 'home' advantage as the HQ has to be in a county somewhere in Ireland. Maybe HQ could be moved brick by brick to the midlands - easy to get to. Alternatively I do not see building another 80k stadium as feasible. Moving all dublin games outside Croke park would be fun for fans - but it would hit the GAA financially and Croke Park will be viewed as a white elephant.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » The answer to this would be to amalgamate other counties that are struggling. They do it with clubs all the time.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Population is no guarantee of advantage - but it does make it more likely.
gaffer91 wrote: » Such funding would have to account for ALL funding, including sponsorship. And would have to take into account long term averages i.e Dublin would have to be underfunded for many years to make up for their overfunding over the last few years. The only whinging really is from Dublin fans when people point out their advantages- justified criticism of one team having all the advantages isn't whinging. Hey I'm not saying I have all the answers to dealing the Croke Park issue. Dublin should still be forced to play more games away from home but there is still the obvious problem of the final and how demand is facilitated for that. The semi final will cease to be a problem in a few years when no-one is bothered going to the semis so you could easily house the <50000 attendance in Cork or Limerick.No the first thing is to split Dublin, ideally into 4 teams. Amalgamation can be considered some years after that. A rivalry would quickly develop between the four teams and it's definitely something that supporters all across the country could get behind, including in Dublin.The main reasons for Dublin's recent success is of course their 'financial doping' combined with population. The effects of the financial doping are likely to be long lasting so the best way to deal with this is to disperse the doping effects among several different teams rather than just one. Obviously it would have been better to prevent this situation developing in the first place but we have to deal with things as they are. Population is an advantage- whether people take full benefit of it or not is another matter.
Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: » Tyrone had a poor year in 2004. They lost to Mayo in the quarter finals. I had forgotten that they went out to Laois in 2006. That result is bizarre looking back on it.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Charlie McCreevey was a great man for helping out Kildarehttps://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/lilywhites-tackle-200000-deficit-172693.htmlhttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/minister-sees-promised-land-1.195588?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fminister-sees-promised-land-1.195588https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=433.45https://www.the42.ie/snapshot-charlie-mccreevy-on-the-bench-for-kildare-u21s-878045-Apr2013/ Big supporter of the K club as wellhttps://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mccreevy-used-1-6m-loan-for-a-luxury-k-club-home-26593982.html
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Since 2013 to this year Dublin have won 2 u20/21's and Kildare have one 1 in 2018. Since 2013 - Dublin have not even contested an AI minor final Since 2013 to this year Kildare have won 4 out of 7 Lienster Minor titles. - Dublin 2 - and Meath 1 So things are bubbling underneath in the last few years so. I think Kildare had the players to do more a few years ago - but the management ruined them - when that defensive football was in vogue
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Meath and Kildare should be taking a real hard look at themselves they are some of the causes for non-competitive leinster now.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » If Dublin are weak they get a football review committee, de Bert pumping money into underage, professionally trained coaches and organisers in every club, huge support and a plan in place for increased participation, huge money thrown at them by the GAA etc etc. Now Dublin have by far surpassed every one of the chasing pack, but everybody else has to "take a long hard look at themselves"? The onus is on Kildare and Meath have to figure out a way to compete with other sports for players, and compete in Leinster without all this support and funding Dublin get. Im not sure how you can't see that as an issue regardless of the colour of your jersey. "Let them eat cake" springs to mind!
RoyalCelt wrote: » The most relevant underage grade is u20/21. Dublin have been very dominant in Leinster over the last 10 years and by far the most succesful in the AI series. You can cherry pick last year but Dublin have on average the best u21/u20 team coming through.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » But Dublin should be dominating according to all the financial doping theorists yet this proves in the last 6 Dublin have not dominated at underage Galway have great underage teams but they are not making use of thier talent Corofin have won three of the last four AI clubs and what have Galway done, Poor negative tactics, poor team selection. It is like like giving a Ferrari to learner driver they end up crashing -That is what happened to Galway football under Walsh. Give a Ferrari to a top class driver and they will break records.- That is what is happening with Jim Gavin and the Dubs Management is key in the GAA because it is not professional like soccer.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Kildare and Meath could amalgamate happens at club level where parishes no longer get the numbers - the 'Lilly-Royals' that name alone should bring in the big shampoo companies!
RoyalCelt wrote: » On the hurling, why do you keep denying that Dublin hurling hasn't been more successful since the doping began? Even a blind man can see hurling in the capital has been more successful. It's now at a decent base where if built on Dublin could well win a hurling AI.
gaffer91 wrote: » Such funding would have to account for ALL funding, including sponsorship. And would have to take into account long term averages i.e Dublin would have to be underfunded for many years to make up for their overfunding over the last few years. The only whinging really is from Dublin fans when people point out their advantages- justified criticism of one team having all the advantages isn't whinging. Hey I'm not saying I have all the answers to dealing the Croke Park issue. Dublin should still be forced to play more games away from home but there is still the obvious problem of the final and how demand is facilitated for that. The semi final will cease to be a problem in a few years when no-one is bothered going to the semis so you could easily house the <50000 attendance in Cork or Limerick. No the first thing is to split Dublin, ideally into 4 teams. Amalgamation can be considered some years after that. A rivalry would quickly develop between the four teams and it's definitely something that supporters all across the country could get behind, including in Dublin. The main reasons for Dublin's recent success is of course their financial doping combined with population. The effects of the financial doping are likely to be long lasting so the best way to deal with this is to disperse the doping effects among several different teams rather than just one. Obviously it would have been better to prevent this situation developing in the first place but we have to deal with things as they are. Population is an advantage- whether people take full benefit of it or not is another matter.
RoyalCelt wrote: » They could amalgamate for sponsorship purposes but if you go down this route you'd have to amalgamate everybody in Leinster to give the Dubs a close game. Far easier to split Dublin. Your county is going to keep increasing at a faster rate then outside Dublin. If you think its bad now just imagine how big the gap will be in 30 years. The great thing is it's only a matter of time until you are either split or counties refuse to play you. Enjoy your success while it lasts. It will be a gold mine for the GAA having a Dublin Derby.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » It doesn't matter who the driver is, you shouldn't be giving a Ferrari to anybody when you are giving their competitors Ford Cortinas.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » On the hurling Cuala are the one Oasis in Dublin hurling - but it has not translated to success. In fact the Dublin hurlers have dipped since Dalo-Keeny is trying to rebuld after Cunningham. Dublin have really struggled to compete with KK and Galway in Leinster. That was why the win v Galway was greeted with such joy. Then what did they do? Lost to laois! The Dub players mush have been weighed down with cash that day?
gormdubhgorm wrote: » You were doing so well - I was agreeing with you until you you said a rivalry would quickly develop between the four teams - not true one bit.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » More likely attendances would plummet - sponsors would run for cover - and opposition teams will not care about beating these new entities. The GAA would be in financial meltdown.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Plus the logistics would be a nightmare. It would be much easier to amalgamate smaller counties - as the current admins could run different parts of the new entities.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » I notice you are still continuing with your mantra the 'financial doping' is the main reason for success for Dublin - when I suspect you know perfectly well it is not. Players cannot be purchased in the GAA so the phrase financial doping is moot for a start. Also you refused to recognise the efficiency of Dublin GAA - how they were underachieving after mismanagement - now they have not only returned to the mean where they should be - they have surpassed it through a superb group of players, and manager.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » For you yourself have said population should give Dublin an advantage alone - yet between 1983-2010 Dublin only won two AI's in 17 years If you follow your logic Dublin's population advantage, playing at home, finances etc should have yielded far more. You have to admit that. Yet you seem to ignore it.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » You also have not answered the reason why 'financial doping' as you put it has not translated to success in Senior inter-county hurling. Not even a final contested for Liam McCarthy. Plus not only that the pool of competition in hurling is smaller so the financial might of Dublin should surely see Dublin win Liam much easier than the Sam in football? .
gormdubhgorm wrote: » So therefore it is only reasonable to conclude that it is not as simplistic as you like to make it appear. There are many more variables besides finances.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » That is before we even get to club football which Corofin dominate currently - Dublin club football has underachieved. How do you explain that? A Longford team , Roscommon team and Wicklow team beating Dublin club champions in football. It was not a decade ago those defeats happened either they were in close proximity. Mullinaghta 2019 beat Kilmacud C.https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mullinalaghta-stun-kilmacud-crokes-to-take-leinster-crown-1.3725212 Rathnew 2017 beat Vinnieshttps://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/stafford-salvo-stuns-vinnies-on-dream-day-for-rathnew-36313294.html Brigids 2013 beat Ballymunhttps://www.the42.ie/st-brigids-ballymun-kickhams-2-835832-Mar2013/ .
gormdubhgorm wrote: » The fact you do not praise the players and management. Suggests to me you have an inherent bias - which is making you blinkered to the other variables you have not listed. Your logic just does not 'add up'.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » You would just have to amalgamate based on political boundries - population etc. So if Kerry win in the next few years what will you be saying? Also you will also note Dublin did not win the last two league titles. Plus counties around Ireland seem to love when the Dubs are on tour. I did not hear anyone cursing having to play them. You have to admit your own county made a joke of itself 13 years in div 2 one of the most populous counties in the country. Near Dublin for work no excuses. They were not even second or third in leinster for years!
RoyalCelt wrote: » You'd be at the level of Laois every year if you didn't get singled out for special money treatment 16 years ago.
Cuala are not Dublin champs so clearly not the only Oasis. Dublin were 1 point off making the leinster final this year vs wexford. If they'd beaten kilkenny by a point instead of drawn it would have been a Wexford Dublin final. The reality is you are right up there with the top teams. Only issue is there's about 7 teams around your level making it very hard to be the champs in Leinster or the AI.
And this is a good thing. The day Dublin start dominating the hurling and the football together is the day the association dies. Fortunately it will probably take over 20 year's before Dublin could dominate hurling too. Fortunately.
Now I know you'd probably say oh aren't they a joy to watch, we should consider ourselves lucky to watch this great Dublin hurling team. But I'll say bollix, I want the good old days back.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Pure speculation. Not true it took a last minute peno to get an undeserved draw v Wexford for a start in Parnell. Why would it take 20 years if money is the answer. They have never contested an AI intercounty final in my lifetime. Surely 15 years of 'financial doping' would have reaped real rewards at this stage? Only a league against a depleted KK in 2011 and a leinster title against a disinterested Galway 2013 to show for it. Plus the Dublin hurlers are really dependent on the tight Parnell pitch outside of it they really struggle. Also surely hurling needs more decent county teams it only has six/eight at push? The Dublin hurling team a joy to watch? First time I heard that said. The good old days when Dublin were underachieving? Anybody But Dublin?
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