gormdubhgorm wrote: » But you are confusing cause and effect - Kilkenny were not underachieving. St Kieran's college is thier academy of sorts and that was thier hurling school. Dublin were underachieving they were not being run properly overall - they had no plan no structure - basically a sleeping giant. Now they are and this has coincided with the best generation of players ever seen - so it is a perfect storm of sorts. Also as I have pointed out if it was solely due to funding - Dublin would be going for five in a row in the club football, club hurling and inter-county hurling. But that is not the case - why? because the players are not as good at those levels/codes, and throwing money at players does not make them beat all comers all of sudden. I know your argument is purely based on cutting funding. Which is fair enough. That is your point of view and it does have some validity considering the state of some counties. But the less enlightened posters on this thread go one step further and say Dublin 'brought titles' - and Jim Gavin has had nothing to do with Dublin's success. There are no praise for the players from such people - which is a bit pathetic It is just plain daft, and it demonstrates to me the level of hatred and jealousy some have towards a great man, a great team, and great people. Which is sad in many ways, but such is life. If Dublin wanted to buy a title they would have forward line with Clifford-Murphy in it etc. It would be Parnell's 2008 moneybags on an inter-county scale - players getting transfers to Dublin clubs - and playing for Dublin. Ironically if any person could be accused of the closest thing to buying players was Micko. At Kildare he got Lacey - from Tipp - his son O'Dwyer from Kerry (Kerry were even talking of wanting Karol back) etc Micko would get players from anywhere he could, using his charisma That is part of the reason why they rose so fast. O'Dwyer also got Sheehan to transfer to Laois from Kerry. And he got Thomas Walsh to transfer from Carlow to Wicklow. That is nothing akin to what Dublin are doing, they are doing it the natural way not poaching players. A special group of lads who played through the age groups together and happened click under a class manager.
rebel girl 15 wrote: » Pretty much the story of the success of the Cork ladies - Rockban, Rockchapel and Naomh Abán had won an Al Ireland intermediate, (Rocks also both winning junior titles, Donoughmore had won 2 senior AI but there was no mixing on the county team until Mary and Eamonn took over and broke down those club barriers Something similar was said about Galway hurling - one of the most competitive club championships, clubs getting into AI series but couldn’t get if together on the county stage
largepants wrote: » Ryan O'Dwyer, Declan Darcy, John Timmons, Mikey Quinn. Need me to go on?
BonnieSituation wrote: » Declan Darcy from Dublin who went down to Leitrim and improved them?https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/able-lieutenant-declan-darcy-looking-to-nail-proven-blueprint-1.3611756
Happyilylost wrote: » I think the point being made is trying to portray Dublin GAA as whiter than white is an exercise in futility. I'm sure if we closely examine the Dublin Hurling team over the years we'll find a few strays too.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » That is nothing akin to what Dublin are doing, they are doing it the natural way not poaching players. A special group of lads who played through the age groups together and happened click under a class manager.
blanch152 wrote: » No, I didn't say that Dublin are buying titles. I asked whether you wanted fair and even competition. If you do, then splitting Kerry and amalgamating other counties have to be on the agenda. If you don't, and are only fixated on Dublin, then there really isn't any point discussing things with you.
Beechwoodspark wrote: » I don’t want to focus on personalities. The main thing we need to debate is the sheer amount of money pumped into Dublin over the last 15 Not arguing the toss over whether someone is modest or not.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » A special group of lads thst went through the ages together? Sorry, but this very obviously factually inaccurate. We were told the same thing about the guys who were winning in 11 and 13. Most of those guys arent in the team now. What you have is another 'special group of lads who came through the ages together', and then another. Doesnt take a genius to work of that 3 special groups in a row, all of a sudden starts to make the word 'special' seem a bit suspect. If it is happening all the time then it isnt special. What is actually happening is the level of the players coming through has improved dramatically due to the level of professional coaching that the government and the rest of the gaa have co-funded for Dublin. No special group blarney, just the way it is now.
rebel girl 15 wrote: » That’s an outright lie to say he “diverted money” as that just sounds like there was something underhand going on.
kilns wrote: » Only for the small fact the 17 of the players who played in 2013 are still in the current squad
jmayo wrote: » If only you were so quick to chastise posters who effectively labeled a bunch of inter-county players of taking expenses fraudently. :rolleyes: The Dublin team of 2013 had average age of under 25. During the subsequent all Ireland s 2015-17 the average age of the Dublin team was 26.9 years. Not sure about 2018, but in the semi final last year the average age was 26.1 years. Up to 2018 just 6 players had started every All-Ireland under Jim Gavin.
RoyalCelt wrote: » Didn't some of your footballers grow up in Meath? Didn't some of your hurlers come from Tipp and elsewhere? Not sure why you are acting that Dublin are different to any other county in this regard.
Strumms wrote: » Dublin have won.... 7 titles out of the last 30 which they challenged for... They are on a roll now and have won 4 in a row... They have a very exceptional set of footballers and a great desire and drive. It’s a team for the ages. It won’t always be. Money is not a factor The factors are..drive, desire, effort, efficiency, hard work, dedicationDo other counties not put in similar effort ? Maybe but it’s paying greater dividends in Dublin... Instead of criticizing, embrace it, it’s a team for the ages.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Yes. And in the case of counties with logistical issues far more. But these counties are scraping by with funds they mostly raise themselves. They don't have the unlimited resources to train the next generation and its the next generation who dictate future success.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » If the average age was 25 in 2013, you'd expect the average age to be 31 in 2019 if it was the same group of players. In reality its now something like 27. Which indicates a significant turnover in players. It would be even worse if compared to 2011. There's actually nothing wrong with this. All the top teams turn over players on an ongoing basis. But to claim its essentially the same team is disingenuous.
blanch152 wrote: » Three special groups in a row? What a load of nonsense, to be expected. Where did you get the idea there were three special groups? Making up ridiculous arguments doesn't get you anywhere. That is up there with your claim that Aslan playing at half-time is an unfair advantage to Dublin. Many of the lads in 2011 and 2013 had been on the road for a long time and had been repeatedly and rightly accused of underachievement. Dublin, with their population, history and structure, should normally be winning 2-4 football All-Irelands every decade. If they are badly organised or badly managed, they have a decade like the 1990s or 2000s when they win one All-Ireland in 20 years. The early part of this decade saw a reversion to the norm, with Dublin winning 2 All-Irelands in four years. What happened since, though is a once-in-a generation set of players arriving in 2015. Look at the players replaced from the 2011. With all due respect to the likes of Ger Brennan, Kevin Nolan, Denis Bastick, Barry Cahill and Bryan Cullen etc. they are no Johnny Cooper, Jack McCaffrey, Brian Fenton, Ciaran Kilkenny, Paul Mannion, and latterly Con O'Callaghan. These latter players are all-time greats compared to the 2011 names. It is not surprising that the 2015 team is better than the 2011 team given the players that have appeared on it. That is very similar to what happened in 1978 when Micko took the best of his 1975 team and married it with a once-in-a-generation infusion of young talent. It is also not surprising that the 2015 team has largely stayed together and that the likes of Ciaran Reddin, Conor McHugh, Colm Basquel, Andrew McGowan, Shane Carthy etc. have not been able to get on the team, (even though they are good enough for inter-county football). Those players are mid-20s and can't force the other older all-time greats out of the team. Comerford is another example, he looks a better keeper than anything that Mayo have, but in front of him is possibly the greatest ever Gaelic footballer, and certainly the greatest goalkeeper of all time. This is a very special group of players. 16 of the 26 who lined out in the 2015 final are still there. Most of the others from that 26 are still with the panel. They are led by the greatest Dublin manager, again all due respect to Kevin Heffernan. By the 2020s, we should see a reversion to the norm and Dublin winning 2-4 All-Ireland during that decade.
Strumms wrote: » Dublin have won.... 7 titles out of the last 30 which they challenged for... They are on a roll now and have won 4 in a row...
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Not true look at Cork they let themselves fall to divison 3, Meath let themselves slide. Kildare had a great crop of players who were not brought on because of poor management - tactics which did not get the best out of the players. Compare the Galway teams dire tactical approach v Corofin it is night and day. To say that Dublin's rise has not being aided in part by poor planning and management and foresight in other counties is just living in denial. It was there for all to see.
Chalk McHugh wrote: » Some stamina ye have lads to go over the same aul stuff, hour after hour, day after day, week after week. It never seems to end. Admirable staying power it must be said. Most certainly a marathon and not a sprint.
blanch152 wrote: » By the 2020s, we should see a reversion to the norm and Dublin winning 2-4 All-Ireland during that decade.
