The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

partyguinness · 14-08-2019 05:01PM

Funnily enough if Dublin keep up this dominance the clamor to split the county may actually come from within Dublin itself rather than outside it. You can only have about 30 on the squad so lads may start getting fed up and want to split.

Just a mad notion. Be gentle.

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:01PM

kilns wrote: »

first time you mentioned the year, care to share the link as i cannot find those figures from GAA

It's on the GAA annual accounts. Have you not been burnt already doubting people? You want to do it again?

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:03PM

bruschi wrote: »

tell you what, why dont you back up your claim that Mayo spend their development funds on the senior team
And then expand on your claim about how Kerry ignore mass participation.

I've broken out the questions that I previously asked you to make it easier for you.

On Kerry, here is an article that sets out how they concentrated on the development squad approach since 2010:

https://www.buzz.ie/gaa/kerry-got-football-factory-working-250604#

Here is another on how Clifford is a product of the development squad approach:

https://www.the42.ie/david-clifford-kerry-2-4748999-Aug2019/

It all comes together with their new Centre of Excellence and the links with IT Tralee.

On Mayo, you just need to look at the annual report on squad expenses. Mayo are always top of the list with four or five dual counties around them, because of the expenses they pay out to players.

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:04PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Who was laughing at Dublin?

Before the millions were pumped into Dublin, they couldn't win a Leinster Championship. After the millions were pumped in, they couldn't lose one.

Its hardly a surprise.

In every sport, the team with the most money 9 times out of 10 win the most. There are a few exceptions to this of course, but as I say 9 times out of 10, the team with most money wins whether its advantages with coaching, resources, strength and conditioning, numbers, and the like.

The huge Dublin GDF is like a Premier League soccer team with 10 times the spend over everyone else in the transfer market. If one player is underperforming, no trouble, just transfer in the latest starlet who came through the hugely inflated GDF system.

But the Examiner article said that it was down to improving volunteer coaching and exceptional players.

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:06PM

Gachla wrote: »

My suggestions have been given to my county board. What's important now is to convince others to also go to their county boards. Showing up the lies and deflection from Dublin supporters is a small way of starting the move to change things.

Did you send them by email?

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:06PM

blanch152 wrote: »

But the Examiner article said that it was down to improving volunteer coaching and exceptional players.

"I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

Game, set and match.

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:06PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Did you send them by email?

Still doubting the GDO's exist?

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:07PM

Gachla wrote: »

"I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

Game, set and match.

"There’s a real coaching culture in Dublin now, similar to what Ulster had when I was coming through, playing football. It comes back down to the quality of people you have involved.

The Dublin development squads aren’t better resourced than any other in the country but I know the people involved in their current U15 and U16 squads and the level of coaching those kids are getting exposed to is phenomenal. Just the level of attention to detail, the level of individual development they’re getting.

Ger Lyons is overlooking them. Again, he’s a volunteer, a teacher out in Lucan, but who has coached teams out in UCD with John Divilly and won Sigersons."

It is all down to the quality of the volunteer coaching, game, set and match.

D9Male · 14-08-2019 05:09PM

The reason why Dublin clubs aren't winning club All Irelands is because they are so hard to win. It is a knock out competition with no back door and by their very nature talent is spread more thinly at club level.

Kerry clubs have only won six club AI championships ever for instance.

Club football is beautifully chaotic still. Thank god.

But Dublin clubs are doing a lot better in recent decades. 8 out of 12 Leinster titles is unprecedented. They had won only 12 of the previous 35.

And 4 of the last 12 All Ireland titles. Compared to 4 of the previous 35.

bruschi · 14-08-2019 05:09PM

blanch152 wrote: »

On Kerry, here is an article that sets out how they concentrated on the development squad approach since 2010:

https://www.buzz.ie/gaa/kerry-got-football-factory-working-250604#

Here is another on how Clifford is a product of the development squad approach:

https://www.the42.ie/david-clifford-kerry-2-4748999-Aug2019/

It all comes together with their new Centre of Excellence and the links with IT Tralee.

On Mayo, you just need to look at the annual report on squad expenses. Mayo are always top of the list with four or five dual counties around them, because of the expenses they pay out to players.

an article on how they improved their development squads and building a centre of excellence.

Now show me where they redirected their funding to "ignore mass participation".

Mayo have large squad expenses. Please outline where "Any funding they get from Croke Park is concentrated into the senior team"

gormdubhgorm · 14-08-2019 05:09PM

Gachla wrote: »

Dublin have won nearly 90 titles since 2005. This was done off the back of millions of euro pumped into their systems. Dublin GDO's admit the influence they system has had on standards. It's across the board improvements. The game is up, the armument has been won. Dublin have bought success. The only argument now is what should be done about it. Many of us are already onto our county boards, the number will continue to grow.

I thought it was 80 yesterday we have gone up 10 in a day.

That is very impressive.
Your agenda you are peddling is becoming clearer by the day.

Plus there was no break down of those actual titles and how they were won - and in what sports.
Are you counting - O'Byrne Cups, handball wins or what?

The argument has not being won as I have already shown YOU REFUSE to accept a myriad of other variables as to why Dublin have improved.

Funding is your sole reasoning - plainly that is just not true.
I have explained that time and time again but you refuse to look at them -

1) Regression of other counties - either mismanagement or previous over-achievement

2) Dublin's severe underachievement for decades

3) Leadership management improvements in Dublin

4) Structure planning in Dublin

5) Focus on underage in Dublin

6) Inspiration from the winning of the dramatic 2011 all-ireland final - drove a generation on for example.

None of this factors in your mind.

You have fallen into the trap peddled by some half baked journalists with an agenda.

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:10PM

blanch152 wrote: »

"There’s a real coaching culture in Dublin now, similar to what Ulster had when I was coming through, playing football. It comes back down to the quality of people you have involved.

The Dublin development squads aren’t better resourced than any other in the country but I know the people involved in their current U15 and U16 squads and the level of coaching those kids are getting exposed to is phenomenal. Just the level of attention to detail, the level of individual development they’re getting.

Ger Lyons is overlooking them. Again, he’s a volunteer, a teacher out in Lucan, but who has coached teams out in UCD with John Divilly and won Sigersons."

It is all down to the quality of the volunteer coaching, game, set and match.

The GDO's coach the coaches! They get the players from an early age. It's was a game changer, they said so themselves.

"I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

Your arguments have been busted.

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:11PM

bruschi wrote: »

an article on how they improved their development squads and building a centre of excellence.

Now show me where they redirected their funding to "ignore mass participation".

Mayo have large squad expenses. Please outline where "Any funding they get from Croke Park is concentrated into the senior team"

If you want to be pedantic, you have a point, but my overall point that Dublin concentrate efforts on juvenile participation, while Kerry fundraising focuses on building centres of excellence for development squads, and Mayo fundraising goes into senior squad expenses remains valid.

gormdubhgorm · 14-08-2019 05:11PM

D9Male wrote: »

The reason why Dublin clubs aren't winning club All Irelands is because they are so hard to win. It is a knock out competition with no back door and by their very nature talent is spread more thinly at club level.

Kerry clubs have only won six club AI championships ever for instance.

Club football is beautifully chaotic still. Thank god.

But Dublin clubs are doing a lot better in recent decades. 8 out of 12 Leinster titles is unprecedented. They had won only 12 of the previous 35.

And 4 of the last 12 All Ireland titles. Compared to 4 of the previous 35.

But this Dublin team has not even required a back door - plus they have had more games to play at a higher level than club.
That should make a five a row even more impressive?

ToBeFrank123 · 14-08-2019 05:12PM

blanch152 wrote: »

But the Examiner article said that it was down to improving volunteer coaching and exceptional players.

Do you not think its a mystery how volunteer coaching hugely improved in Dublin after about 2005?

Actually its no mystery - they had GDOs helping them.

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:13PM

Gachla wrote: »

The GDO's coach the coaches! They get the players from an early age. It's was a game changer, they said so themselves.

"I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

Your arguments have been busted.

You actually need to read the article in full. I posted several extracts from it which completely demolish your argument. And those extracts came from non-Dubs!!! Just look at this one short statement from the article:

"The Dublin development squads aren’t better resourced than any other in the country"

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:14PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I thought it was 80 yesterday we have gone up 10 in a day.
That is very impressive.
Your agenda you are peddling is becoming clearer by the day.

Plus there was no break down of those actual titles and how they were won - and in what sports.
Are you counting - O'Byrne Cups, handball wins or what?

The argument has not being won as I have already shown YOU REFUSE to accept a myriad of other variables as to why Dublin have improved.

Funding is your sole reasoning - plainly that is just not true.
I have explained that time and time again but you refuse to look at them -

1) Regression of other counties - either mismanagement or previous over-achievement

2) Dublin's severe underachievement for decades

3) Leadership management improvements in Dublin

4) Structure planning in Dublin

5) Focus on underage in Dublin

6) Inspiration from the winning of the dramatic 2011 all-ireland final - drove a generation on for example.

None of this factors in your mind.

You have fallen into the trap peddled by some half baked journalists with an agenda.

GDO's working in Dublin for 2 decades admit the major impact the professional coaches have had. Are you calling them liars? I have already gone through the expensive structures in Dublin GAA and how much they cost. The game is up, you've lost the argument.
The titles won are Leinster, National league and All Ireland titles.

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:14PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Do you not think its a mystery how volunteer coaching hugely improved in Dublin after about 2005?

Actually its no mystery - they had GDOs helping them.

Read the article, that is not what they say.

"A lot of clubs started to get their act together and put in a big shift in their nurseries and juvenile sections. They began to coach the coaches so the skills were being coached correctly and that there’d be a unity of purpose running right throughout the club."

That was before any GDOs came along.

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:16PM

Gachla wrote: »

GDO's working in Dublin for 2 decades admit the major impact the professional coaches have had. Are you calling them liars? I have already gone through the expensive structures in Dublin GAA and how much they cost. The game is up, you've lost the argument.
The titles won are Leinster, National league and All Ireland titles.

Those same GDOs say that population, playing in Croke Park, the exceptional players like Kilkenny and Fenton coming through, and the quality of the volunteer coaches were bigger factors.

Population can be sorted by county amalgamations, no Dub is insisting on playing in Croke Park, exceptional players will eventually move on and hard work at county level will improve the volunteer coaches.

kilns · 14-08-2019 05:16PM

Gachla wrote: »

It's on the GAA annual accounts. Have you not been burnt already doubting people? You want to do it again?

Apologies for not responding quicker as the 2007 figures are not on the GAA website and tried in vain to find them on google so a link would be appreciated. Can you tell me which county it was?

D9Male · 14-08-2019 05:17PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But this Dublin team has not even required a back door - plus they have had more games to play at a higher level than club.
That should make a five a row even more impressive?

More impressive than what?

A 5 in a row at club level would be a lot more impressive.

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:18PM

blanch152 wrote: »

You actually need to read the article in full. I posted several extracts from it which completely demolish your argument. And those extracts came from non-Dubs!!! Just look at this one short statement from the article:

"The Dublin development squads aren’t better resourced than any other in the country"

"I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

This quote is the one that matters. This is the one you were staking your house on. The GDO's were just visiting the children in primary schools, they had no impact on elite player development. Your argument has been blown to smithereens!

gormdubhgorm · 14-08-2019 05:18PM

Gachla wrote: »

Dublin were never in an All Ireland club final, they've won two in the past few years. Dublin football clubs have won 4 All Ireland's since 2007, they won one in the 30 years before that. This is a common theme.

What are you talking about you must have missed Corofin, Mullinaghta, Rathew - Roscomon St Bridgid's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Senior_Club_Football_Championship

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mullinalaghta-stun-kilmacud-crokes-to-take-leinster-crown-1.3725212

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/stafford-salvo-stuns-vinnies-on-dream-day-for-rathnew-36313294.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/st-brigid-s-strike-late-to-claim-first-all-ireland-title-1.1329091?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fgaelic-games%2Fgaelic-football%2Fst-brigid-s-strike-late-to-claim-first-all-ireland-title-1.1329091

You only see what you want to see and you have yet to list these 80 titles which you now call nearly 90.
Or are you like your man Drumm from Anglo-Irish picking it out of yer arse?

Take the blinkers off good man.

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 05:19PM

Gachla wrote: »

"I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

This quote is the one that matters. This is the one you were staking your house on. The GDO's were just visiting the children in primary schools, they had no impact on elite player development. Your argument has been blown to smithereens!

Sorry, "the development squads were not better resourced than any other county". Which bit of that did you not understand?

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:21PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Read the article, that is not what they say.

"A lot of clubs started to get their act together and put in a big shift in their nurseries and juvenile sections. They began to coach the coaches so the skills were being coached correctly and that there’d be a unity of purpose running right throughout the club."

That was before any GDOs came along.

"The job was to increase the numbers and improve the quality of players. I was based on the southside, covering nine clubs, the likes of St Jude’s, Ballyboden, Thomas Davis, St Mark’s, St Killian’s, St Kevin’s. It would have been difficult, trying to work the club-school relationship when you were trying to cover that many clubs. I’d say 65 percent of my time back then would have been in the schools whereas now it would be 75 percent with the club [Kilmacud]."

"The big change came when the funding came through in 2004, 2005. All of a sudden you had 40-45 coaches. Instead of having to go around to 10 clubs, you only had to focus on one or two."

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:23PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Those same GDOs say that population, playing in Croke Park, the exceptional players like Kilkenny and Fenton coming through, and the quality of the volunteer coaches were bigger factors.

Population can be sorted by county amalgamations, no Dub is insisting on playing in Croke Park, exceptional players will eventually move on and hard work at county level will improve the volunteer coaches.

No, they say Dublin had other advantages and then talk about the massive role GDO's have played in improving standards.

kilns · 14-08-2019 05:23PM

So Gachla is claiming only Dublin have development squads to improve the best at their age group as these are the group of players this guy was referring to.

Are Dublin the only county with development squads Gachla?

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:23PM

kilns wrote: »

Apologies for not responding quicker as the 2007 figures are not on the GAA website and tried in vain to find them on google so a link would be appreciated. Can you tell me which county it was?

Here's the 2007 accounts:

kilns · 14-08-2019 05:26PM

Gachla wrote: »

"The job was to increase the numbers and improve the quality of players. I was based on the southside, covering nine clubs, the likes of St Jude’s, Ballyboden, Thomas Davis, St Mark’s, St Killian’s, St Kevin’s. It would have been difficult, trying to work the club-school relationship when you were trying to cover that many clubs. I’d say 65 percent of my time back then would have been in the schools whereas now it would be 75 percent with the club [Kilmacud]."

"The big change came when the funding came through in 2004, 2005. All of a sudden you had 40-45 coaches. Instead of having to go around to 10 clubs, you only had to focus on one or two."

And? One coach covering 9 clubs and you know where those clubs are and how many schools are in that catchment area??

Then more coaches were employed enabling more schools to be reached and the games developed

Gachla · 14-08-2019 05:26PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What are you talking about you must have missed Corofin, Mullinaghta, Rathew - Roscomon St Bridgid's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Senior_Club_Football_Championship

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mullinalaghta-stun-kilmacud-crokes-to-take-leinster-crown-1.3725212

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/stafford-salvo-stuns-vinnies-on-dream-day-for-rathnew-36313294.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/st-brigid-s-strike-late-to-claim-first-all-ireland-title-1.1329091?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fgaelic-games%2Fgaelic-football%2Fst-brigid-s-strike-late-to-claim-first-all-ireland-title-1.1329091

You only see what you want to see and you have yet to list these 80 titles which you now call nearly 90.
Or are you like your man Drumm from Anglo-Irish picking it out of yer arse?

Take the blinkers off good man.

Which part of my post is untrue?

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1