The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

snotboogie wrote: »

Once you reach a certain critical mass you can compete, plenty of countries with under 10 million can consistently compete with nations with around 100 million. The issue in GAA is that the counties with the critical mass to compete with Dublin either have a huge portion of their population who won't play GAA (Antrim, Down and Derry) or where football is a minority sport (Cork, Galway and Limerick). Kildade and Meath should provide some hope going forward.

I would say football is the majority sport in Galway.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I don't see Bastic being like Fenton with any amount of training.
Do you see how fast Fenton is for a start - much lighter on his feet, Bastic not the same type of player at all never will be.

The point is often made about McCauley who is probably the most relevant to your argument - that because he is unorthodox he is more likely to cause trouble for backs.
You could argue he would not be as good with training.

Plus have you noticed that the silky skills of Bernard Brogan (played great in Omagh) was dropped completely for EOG on the bench v Mayo the last day?

The only logical reason is that Gavin wanted an awkward lump on the bench v Mayo not a Brogan type player.

Plus you should have mentioned Jack McCaffery, He used to do a lot of weight training - but tailed it back because he felt it was slowing him down.

If you look at Vinny Murohy his game suffered because of too much bulk - was far better lighter less muscle.

What Dublin do is tailor training individually to players strengths like Jack Mc.
There is no point in trying to get the likes of Bastic to do skills training not his strength.
I assume other counties have cottoned on to this and it is not a 'one size fits all' training that you seem to advocate?

If bastick was getting the professional coaching fenton got throughout his youth he would be a much imporved player, unquestionably.
He doesnt have to be an identical player to fenton to make a relevant comparison and that is just disingenuous.

As for mccauley being unorthodox... If that is the case then sack all the coaches and you will have 26 unorthodox players to 'surprise' the opposition with...

Re mccaffrey. At this point the coaching has already gone in. Fine tuning his weight training program to take advantage of his pace is not the same thing at all - that happens in the intercounty setup. We are talking about his technique being developed from 12 up. Im sure you already know this. It is clear you are more interested in trying to stifle the points with poor comparisons etc than discussing the point

odyssey06 wrote: »

The central budget doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere.
Has its size got nothing to do with the number of fans Dublin bring to the game - both to Croke Park and on TV?

It seems to be entirely reasonable, after investing serious money in redeveloping a stadium in the capital city, to have games there and look for big attendances. How could the GAA have paid off Croke Park without those Dublin fans? Not a chance.

No way there'd be enough fans & money floating around in last 15 years for pay for the redevelopment of Croke Park, bailing out Páirc Uí Chaoimh, co-funding stadium work around the country and a 25,000 Dublin stadium (which was scuppered by the dysfunctional property market in Dublin and NAMA).
If Dublin hadn't been NAMA'd, and had built a stadium on new site, you can be sure that's where they'd be playing their games and that's where the gate money would be going.

While it's true about large Dublin crowds at the leinster championship helping to pay off Croker as yourself why there were huge crowds. You'd have a leinster final with 60k Dubs and 20k from Laois. Or 30k from Kildare and 50k from Dublin. You'd have a quarter final with 25k from Meath and 55k Dublin. Leinster final between meath an louth about 25k from each.

The crowds were huge in Leinster both from Dublin and other counties because it was competitive. So it wasn't just Dublin funding it, it was the teams who competed with Dublin and made it a spectacle. Those 20k+ crowds from the likes of meath, laois, Kildare, Westmeath etc have dropped to 1-5k attending matches in Croker vs Dublin. That's a huge loss in revenue from outside Dublin. The 50-60k Dublin fans who used to attend leinster matches has dropped to 20-35k depending on the fixture and the stage.

Basically massive drops and loss of revenue all round. Leinster GAA would be far richer now if they had invested heavily in other counties not just Dublin and kept some semblance of a spectacle.

It would also have helped that before Dublin became an unstoppable juggernaut they wouldn't have every close match gifted to them by the officials. Meath 2007, Kildare 2011, Wexford 2011 spring to mind. If Dublin had of won Leinster in 05, 06, 08, 09, 12, 13 it wouldn't have seemed so bad. Instead they have won every year bar 10.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

While it's true about large Dublin crowds at the leinster championship helping to pay off Croker as yourself why there were huge crowds. You'd have a leinster final with 60k Dubs and 20k from Laois. Or 30k from Kildare and 50k from Dublin. You'd have a quarter final with 25k from Meath and 55k Dublin. Leinster final between meath an louth about 25k from each.

The crowds were huge in Leinster both from Dublin and other counties because it was competitive. So it wasn't just Dublin funding it, it was the teams who competed with Dublin and made it a spectacle. Those 20k+ crowds from the likes of meath, laois, Kildare, Westmeath etc have dropped to 1-5k attending matches in Croker vs Dublin. That's a huge loss in revenue from outside Dublin. The 50-60k Dublin fans who used to attend leinster matches has dropped to 20-35k depending on the fixture and the stage.

Basically massive drops and loss of revenue all round. Leinster GAA would be far richer now if they had invested heavily in other counties not just Dublin and kept some semblance of a spectacle.

It would also have helped that before Dublin became an unstoppable juggernaut they wouldn't have every close match gifted to them by the officials. Meath 2007, Kildare 2011, Wexford 2011 spring to mind. If Dublin had of won Leinster in 05, 06, 08, 09, 12, 13 it wouldn't have seemed so bad. Instead they have won every year bar 10.

What about Meath in 2010?

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

If bastick was getting the professional coaching fenton got throughout his youth he would be a much imporved player, unquestionably.
He doesnt have to be an identical player to fenton to make a relevant comparison and that is just disingenuous.

As for mccauley being unorthodox... If that is the case then sack all the coaches and you will have 26 unorthodox players to 'surprise' the opposition with...

Re mccaffrey. At this point the coaching has already gone in. Fine tuning his weight training program to take advantage of his pace is not the same thing at all - that happens in the intercounty setup. We are talking about his technique being developed from 12 up. Im sure you already know this. It is clear you are more interested in trying to stifle the points with poor comparisons etc than discussing the point

I think you are talking through yer hat re -Bastic there has to be something to work with in the first place.

Having 26 unorthodox players would be stupid - Gavin seems happy now with MDM. And picks EOG ahead of Brogan. Brogan does not even make the squad v Mayo.
Managers like a mixture of players - personally I don't rate EOG - but Gavin sees the use in him.
You seem to think that all this training will produce loads of skillful players like Magic.
The players have to be there in the first place allied to a plan and a structure.
Some counties have the plan - no players
Some counties have a structure - no plan
Some counties have none of the three.

Dublin have all three.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It wasn't just a once off Iceland did it again in subsequent games.

This is how they did set up the plan - it was not an overnight success.

Some intercounty teams have no excuses in Ireland

What subsequent games? They got a comprehensive hiding in the next game from france and were out... The england win is their big claim to fame. Ours is beating italy in the group in 1994 - 25 years ago... Therein lies my point. You seem to think that the other top teams should be content with getting a big win once every 25 odd years. You werent happy when dublin were falling just short for all irelands, yet think everyone else should be happy with far less... It is the equivalent of offering us a nice shiny penny while you take all that troublesome paper money...
Who do you think you are fooling?

blanch152 wrote: »

The funding issue has already been addressed. Why do you think McKenna and his followers use historical figures from 2005?

Over the last two to three years, the funding for Dublin has decreased while the funding to the rest of the country has increased. The East Leinster initiative is one example of this.

On a per capita basis, Dublin are not the best funded.

Yeah there was guy on the GAA hour explaining that Dublin were actually underfunded so I would well believe it.

Dots1982 wrote: »

We will go on with the present structure until everyone even the majority of Dubs are bored with it and the sport essentially fails because it can’t attract a crowd.

A sport involving only Ireland should have max 10-12 elite teams.

32 teams is ****ing madness.

Yeah, but whose lifetime will that happen in by the time Clifford has retired as Kerry manager winning the coveted 7 in a row?

RoyalCelt wrote: »

While it's true about large Dublin crowds at the leinster championship helping to pay off Croker as yourself why there were huge crowds. You'd have a leinster final with 60k Dubs and 20k from Laois. Or 30k from Kildare and 50k from Dublin. You'd have a quarter final with 25k from Meath and 55k Dublin. Leinster final between meath an louth about 25k from each.

The crowds were huge in Leinster both from Dublin and other counties because it was competitive. So it wasn't just Dublin funding it, it was the teams who competed with Dublin and made it a spectacle. Those 20k+ crowds from the likes of meath, laois, Kildare, Westmeath etc have dropped to 1-5k attending matches in Croker vs Dublin. That's a huge loss in revenue from outside Dublin. The 50-60k Dublin fans who used to attend leinster matches has dropped to 20-35k depending on the fixture and the stage.

Basically massive drops and loss of revenue all round. Leinster GAA would be far richer now if they had invested heavily in other counties not just Dublin and kept some semblance of a spectacle.

It would also have helped that before Dublin became an unstoppable juggernaut they wouldn't have every close match gifted to them by the officials. Meath 2007, Kildare 2011, Wexford 2011 spring to mind. If Dublin had of won Leinster in 05, 06, 08, 09, 12, 13 it wouldn't have seemed so bad. Instead they have won every year bar 10.

Attendances in 1981 and 1982 were far worse. The Kerry team of the time were hugely professional, only needed to win three games to win some of their All-Irelands, teams like Clare gave up and conceded 9-21 which you wouldn't even see in a hurling game nowadays. There was no competition from Connacht or Ulster. Interest in gaelic football hit an all-time low in the summer of 1982 as Kerry went for a five-in-a-row. Despite the hundreds of thousands who say they were there to see the Seamus Darby push to win the game, it was the lowest final attendance since the second world war, and that includes years that half of Croke Park was closed for renovations.

Why would you be surprised to see a repeat of those attendance patterns when Dublin are going for a five-in-a-row?

The only precedent for what Dublin are doing is that Kerry team.

You have to have “professional” coaches to teach a child to use both feet and hands - mind absolutely boggles!

That’s just common sense - I’m not a professional coach but any session I do will always make players work on both sides. Not hard to put high coaching standards in place in counties for very little cost - problem is some coaches have lost the amateur ethos even at club level coaching, which is madness.

Posted this before but there was a fantastic initiative with hurling this year where the vast majority of counties were split and a lot more young fellas exposed to inter county games. Cork was split in four as far as I know - but it’s been the only competition to have all 32 counties playing in it.