The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They are an exceptional core group of players - if those Dublin u12 players (2005) were moved to Mayo (and did not emigrate) Mayo would have a few all-ireland's won
Surely Mayo's coaching would not be that poor to 'ruin' them?
Or are you saying that Mayo GAA does not know how to coach players?

Moving them to mayo or anywhere else, doesnt change the fact that those players became the players they are today, due in no small part to the professional level of coaching they recieved throughout their youth. No other county can offer anywhere near that level of coaching, therefore they wouldnt have the same skillset if they were elsewhere. Saying they are simply an exceptional group of players, after this coaching has taken effect, doesnt prove what you seem to think it does - quite the opposite in fact.

It is even very obvious in the dublin setup itself, where the younger guys can tackle well, can use both feet well etc, whereas older players that were on the scene, like mcauley or bastick when he was there, or ger brennan were far less technical. Even alan brogan who was a top player, was far more reliant on his stronger foot than guys like scully or howard, who would be considered workhorses in the current team.

kilns wrote: »

I think this thread could go on and on forever as guys like tobefrank123 will never acknowledge anything reasonably good came could ever come out of Dublin

You said earlier:

So many things are cyclical and this is an example, Dublin benefitted from a perfect storm, an amazing group of players, a fantastic manager who facilitated them and the standards of other counties dropping.

All this may be true, can you yourself acknowledge the fact that Dublin also got significantly more help than any other county from the GAA, in terms of help with setting up professional structures and a bucket load of cash to fund those structures, or is that not considered part of the "perfect storm"?

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

My figures were slightly underestimated for Mayo.

Mayo v Armagh 18,500k
Mayo v Donegal 27k
Mayo v Kerry 31k
Mayo v Galway 19k
Mayo v Roscommon 20,500
Mayo v Dublin 82,500
Mayo v Down - can't find this but I think it was about 8k
Mayo v Meath - approx 25k
Mayo v NY - I think 10k

So roughly 240k in total.

They get about 45,000 in gdf per year. That's the grand total of 20 cents per person attending a Mayo game.

And you wonder how Mayo struggle to compete?

Always the focus on the Championship, not even the League, let alone the club scene.

Too many Mayo fans have a singular focus on their senior team's Championship performance to the exclusion of everything else.

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

You said earlier:

All this may be true, can you yourself acknowledge the fact that Dublin also got significantly more help than any other county from the GAA, in terms of help with setting up professional structures and a bucket load of cash to fund those structures, or is that not considered part of the "perfect storm"?

I agree with you there if Dublin had the same funding and lesser players/management structure to chose from - you would ironically hear less about the funding. As they would be less successful.

But as the players/management structure are top notch and really successful they are not praised and the funding becomes the focus!

That dichotomy amuses me no end.

But you mix funding with top notch players and management - the others are really playing catch up especially if they do not have thier own house in order.

All three of these can change for Dubin -

1) Dublin given less funding gradually

2) Dublin getting a head the ball manager who falls out with players

3) Players who are not that goof=d/players who fall out with management

Funding issue should be easily sorted, when Gavin steps down Dubs fans will be worried, when the old guard of players go Dubs fans will be worried.

Gachla wrote: »

If Ireland were the only one's with huge numbers of professional coaches while every other country had very little, then you would see us make big inroads and then you would be making a fair comparison.

OK well Iceland managed to do it on a European stage in soccer.
Population Iceland 357,100 v England 55 million. (15 times the pop difference)

What would they be the equivalent inter-country in Ireland
- Westmeath v Dublin (15 times the pop difference)

It can be done if there is a proper plan and proper management

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Would ya look at the players ya picked - not an Eoghan O'Gara in sight!

Bastic was never going to be a skillful player he would always have been a destroyer a fella who breaks tackles - breaks up play

McCauley is an unusual case his background was basketball - Ireland u19 and came to GAA late.
That is why he looks unorthodox and awkward at times.

Ger Brennan was a tiger of a player that was his style - never lost the ball much as far as I can remember - so you could argue he was under-rated technically.

If you are basing success on the amount of coaches how come Ireland have not succeeded in the soccer with thier Dutch imported coaches over a decade ago?

http://www.dutch-football.com/football/ireland/fai_wim_koevermans.shtml

https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/ruud-dokter-appointed-high-performance-director

They still lamp the ball as far as they can - you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

There has to be talent there to begin with.

Ogara another example yes. I know the skills of the other players, you dont have to describe them...
My point is, without the coaching these guys have unquestionably improved with, someone like fenton is probably a bit more like bastick, skillwise. Maybe still superior, but Im sure you get the logic.
Mccauley didnt get the coaching and you can tell - that is the relative point here, what he was doing besides doesnt matter.

Re ireland soccer, no real investment, a basketcase association etc. you know as well as I do there are seriously debilitating factors at play there. Also, 2 coaches arent going to do much for a national team. How many in dublin again?
Not that it matters here - they are two completely different cases...

Dots1982 wrote: »

Dublin are all powerful largely because of their population. Between 1990 and 2015 their population increase outstripped the entire present populations of big counties like Kildare and Meath.

Anyone who thinks cutting the funding will stop Dublin isn’t properly understanding the issue.

The current inter county competition structure is doomed. The drawn out debates here about funding are largely pointless.

Cork enjoys a similar population advantage in Hurling, well over double the population of the next county who takes the sport seriously (Galway) and three to five times the population of the rest of their rivals (Limerick, Tipp, Clare, Kilkenny, Waterford), between 1991 and 2016 the population increase in Cork is larger than the current populations of Clare, Waterford and Kilkenny yet they can't even win a title, never mind dominate.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ogara another example yes. I know the skills of the other players, you dont have to describe them...
My point is, without the coaching these guys have unquestionably improved with, someone like fenton is probably a bit more like bastick, skillwise. Maybe still superior, but Im sure you get the logic.
Mccauley didnt get the coaching and you can tell - that is the relative point here, what he was doing besides doesnt matter.

Re ireland soccer, no real investment, a basketcase association etc. you know as well as I do there are seriously debilitating factors at play there. Also, 2 coaches arent going to do much for a national team. How many in dublin again?
Not that it matters here - they are two completely different cases...

I don't see Bastic being like Fenton with any amount of training.
Do you see how fast Fenton is for a start - much lighter on his feet, Bastic not the same type of player at all never will be.

The point is often made about McCauley who is probably the most relevant to your argument - that because he is unorthodox he is more likely to cause trouble for backs.
You could argue he would not be as good with training.

Plus have you noticed that the silky skills of Bernard Brogan (played great in Omagh) was dropped completely for EOG on the bench v Mayo the last day?

The only logical reason is that Gavin wanted an awkward lump on the bench v Mayo not a Brogan type player.

Plus you should have mentioned Jack McCaffery, He used to do a lot of weight training - but tailed it back because he felt it was slowing him down.

If you look at Vinny Murohy his game suffered because of too much bulk - was far better lighter less muscle.

What Dublin do is tailor training individually to players strengths like Jack Mc.
There is no point in trying to get the likes of Bastic to do skills training not his strength.
I assume other counties have cottoned on to this and it is not a 'one size fits all' training that you seem to advocate?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OK well Iceland managed to do it on a European stage in soccer.
Population Iceland 357,100 v England 55 million. (15 times the pop difference)

What would they be the equivalent inter-country in Ireland
- Westmeath v Dublin (15 times the pop difference)

It can be done if there is a proper plan and proper management

Sorry but this is trying to take the exception and treat it as the rule.
This result was seen as a total shock, i.e. only a couple of times in a lifetime.
Are you trying to suggest that dublins nearest rivals should wait around to see Dublin lose 2-3 times in their lifetime and be happy with that?
If that is the case, why did dublin need investment in the first place? Couldnt they just be happy to get an odd win against the odds also?

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but this is trying to take the exception and treat it as the rule.
This result was seen as a total shock, i.e. only a couple of times in a lifetime.
Are you trying to suggest that dublins nearest rivals should wait around to see Dublin lose 2-3 times in their lifetime and be happy with that?
If that is the case, why did dublin need investment in the first place? Couldnt they just be happy to get an odd win against the odds also?

It wasn't just a once off Iceland did it again in subsequent games.

This is how they did set up the plan - it was not an overnight success.




Some intercounty teams have no excuses in Ireland

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but this is trying to take the exception and treat it as the rule.
This result was seen as a total shock, i.e. only a couple of times in a lifetime.
Are you trying to suggest that dublins nearest rivals should wait around to see Dublin lose 2-3 times in their lifetime and be happy with that?
If that is the case, why did dublin need investment in the first place? Couldnt they just be happy to get an odd win against the odds also?

Once you reach a certain critical mass you can compete, plenty of countries with under 10 million can consistently compete with nations with around 100 million. The issue in GAA is that the counties with the critical mass to compete with Dublin either have a huge portion of their population who won't play GAA (Antrim, Down and Derry) or where football is a minority sport (Cork, Galway and Limerick). Kildade and Meath should provide some hope going forward.