Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 02:51PM

brickster69 wrote: »

No idea. Pretty sure it is less than Calais to Tokyo or Calais to Montevideo

And of course one of them is all you've got*. The latter two are as well as everything else. Can you actually post something meaningful?

*Assuming you get it

Professor Moriarty · 13-08-2019 02:53PM

brickster69 wrote: »

No idea. Pretty sure it is less than Calais to Tokyo or Calais to Montevideo

Google is my friend.

Dover to Calais: 52 miles - 90 minutes
Dover to New York: 3,526 miles - 135 hours

Best deal ever. MAGA.

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 02:55PM

joeysoap wrote: »

ireland will never be be able to provide air cover to protect our skies. Never. But Uk only do it to protect their own territory, in the event of a war, we would probably be collateral damage.

I don't think you mean this, but are you suggesting that the UK just disappears after brexit?

L1011 · 13-08-2019 02:59PM

Duggie2012 wrote: »

judging on that graphic wouldnt the netherlands be screwed on a lot of things. way more than us no??

That's physical flow via Rotterdam rather than them producing much food.

joeysoap · 13-08-2019 03:00PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't think you mean this, but are you suggesting that the UK just disappears after brexit?

No, of course not. When uk detects Russian aircraft of our west coast it their its their own territory they are protecting by sending up fighter aircraft in response. It’s suits our ‘neutrality’ too.

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 03:03PM

joeysoap wrote: »

No, of course not. When uk detects Russian aircraft of our west coast it their its their own territory they are protecting by sending up fighter aircraft in response. It’s suits our ‘neutrality’ too.

Yes. But what point are you making? And what's it got to do with brexit?

Sam Russell · 13-08-2019 03:12PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Google is my friend.

Dover to Calais: 52 miles - 90 minutes
Dover to New York: 3,526 miles - 135 hours

Best deal ever. MAGA.

I think there is a bit of dyslexia there.

Dover to Calais: 52 25 miles - 90 minutes (by ferry).

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 03:18PM

L1011 wrote: »

That's physical flow via Rotterdam rather than them producing much food.

Yeah. The actual amounts exported annually are shown in the graphic for each country. Didn't realise we shipped so much cheddar to the UK. £250 million a year! Perhaps somebody should tell Liz Truss who thinks that all the cheddar they eat comes from inside the UK.

Edit: 78 thousand tonnes, 70% of production. Apparently looking at taking production to other types like Mozzarella.

Sam Russell · 13-08-2019 03:18PM

It looks like Amber Rudd has been bought.

Risks of no-deal Brexit can be managed by government, says Rudd
Work and pensions secretary had stated in March she believed no deal would ‘do generational damage’ to UK

Amber Rudd has said she believes the risks of a no-deal Brexit are no more than a challenge that can be countered by government action, going back on her previous assessment in which she said it would cause “generational damage” to the UK.

The work and pensions secretary, who kept her job when Boris Johnson became prime minister by renouncing her previously resolute opposition to no deal, said she still believed this would be much less preferable than a managed Brexit.

So she took the shilling to keep her job. What a disappointment.

Professor Moriarty · 13-08-2019 03:22PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think there is a bit of dyslexia there.

Dover to Calais: 52 25 miles - 90 minutes (by ferry).

I think there's a bit of pedant there.

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 03:23PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

It looks like Amber Rudd has been bought.

So she took the shilling to keep her job. What a disappointment.

Not defending her, but the more of these I see, the more of a bluff I smell.

Sam Russell · 13-08-2019 03:29PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. The actual amounts exported annually are shown in the graphic for each country. Didn't realise we shipped so much cheddar to the UK. £250 million a year! Perhaps somebody should tell Liz Truss who thinks that all the cheddar they eat comes from inside the UK.

In a way it does. Irish cheese is packed in the UK by Ornua in Staffordshire. This one factory produces 40% of all the hard cheese consumed in the UK. So is it UK cheese or Irish?

Sam Russell · 13-08-2019 03:31PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think there's a bit of pedant there.

A pedant would have complained of an error of 22 miles vs 25 miles, but 52 miles is more than 100% out.

Hardly pedantry.

Quin_Dub · 13-08-2019 03:31PM

brickster69 wrote: »

You would think getting the biggest free trade deal in the world sorted would be a feather in the cap of Trump with an election coming up.

A few rousing speeches by Boris and Nigel should just about be enough for him to get another term.

Trump can claim all he wants.. Nancy Pelosi and the Congressional Democrats that run the committees are the ones that have to sign off on the deal.

And they have clearly stated that they will not sign any deal that goes against the terms of the GFA.

Any deal that Trump signs will just sit there un-approved , just like his amazing new "NAFTA in all but name" deal.

All the while the UK sit there without any deals with anyone...

Boris and Nigel going on about how Trump wants to sign a "wonderful trade deal" is a bit like someone getting all excited when the barman in the nightclub promises you 2 for 1 Cocktails but you haven't worked out how to get past the bouncers on the door yet.

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 03:35PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

In a way it does. Irish cheese is packed in the UK by Ornua in Staffordshire. This one factory produces 40% of all the hard cheese consumed in the UK. So is it UK cheese or Irish?

Only if you eat the packaging.

Total cheese production in the UK was around 350k tonnes in 2017. The 80k tonnes we export to them is not insubstantial in that context.

brickster69 · 13-08-2019 03:36PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And they have clearly stated that they will not sign any deal that goes against the terms of the GFA.

.

But it is the EU / IRE who are going to break the GFA. Not the UK.

Quin_Dub · 13-08-2019 03:38PM

brickster69 wrote: »

But it is the EU / IRE who are going to break the GFA. Not the UK.

That's bordering on trolling at this point...

The UK are the ones leaving , thereby being the cause of any action anyone else has to take to mitigate the impacts.

So they are entirely responsible for anything that happens.

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 03:38PM

brickster69 wrote: »

But it is the EU / IRE who are going to break the GFA. Not the UK.

I'm afraid that little disingenuity won't get past the likes of Pelosi and Boyle, amongst others.

fash · 13-08-2019 03:47PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That's bordering on trolling at this point...

The UK are the ones leaving , thereby being the cause of any action anyone else has to take to mitigate the impacts.

So they are entirely responsible for anything that happens.

How long will the UK wait before it installs a hard border anyway? The plan seems to be "we think we can last longer than Ireland".
And then their plan is to say "well Ireland did it first- therefore we can do it"
Is there any other way they could frame their propaganda?
Otherwise, it will be great if they don't install a border - the smuggling opportunities will be a wonderful economic boost for the border counties.

Professor Moriarty · 13-08-2019 03:47PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

A pedant would have complained of an error of 22 miles vs 25 miles, but 52 miles is more than 100% out.

Hardly pedantry.

Granted! But in the context of 52 miles versus 3,526 or 25 miles versus 3,526...

Anyway, I did my research again and found that I had misread. It's 52 miles (90 minutes) via the Channel Tunnel. Versus 3,526 miles (6 days) by boat. Which makes the difference even more stark.

brickster69 · 13-08-2019 03:48PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That's bordering on trolling at this point...

The UK are the ones leaving , thereby being the cause of any action anyone else has to take to mitigate the impacts.

So they are entirely responsible for anything that happens.

Incorrect. the Lisbon Treaty clearly states that " any country can leave the EU " It was signed by all members including Ireland. It does not say any country apart from the UK can leave.

If the EU do not want to preserve an open border by checking goods away from the frontier and insist on goods being checked directly on the border then that is it's choice.

The only reason the EU cannot accept goods being checked away from the border is that the whole world will see that it has been used as a weapon to keep the UK in the CM and CU.

ath262 · 13-08-2019 03:54PM

brickster69 wrote: »

...If the EU do not want to preserve an open border by checking goods away from the frontier and insist on goods being checked directly on the border then that is it's choice.....

Incorrect - since the U.K. is leaving it will no longer be in the SM or CU, so requiring checks on goods entering the EU and the associated tariffs - all due to actions of the U.K.

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 03:54PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Incorrect. the Lisbon Treaty clearly states that " any country can leave the EU " It was signed by all members including Ireland. It does not say any country apart from the UK can leave.

No. It doesn't stop countries entering into treaties with other countries that depend on its membership either.

brickster69 wrote: »

If the EU do not want to preserve an open border by checking goods away from the frontier and insist on goods being checked directly on the border then that is it's choice.

The only reason the EU cannot accept goods being checked away from the border is that the whole world will see that it has been used as a weapon to keep the UK in the CM and CU.

Show me where any country carries out checks away from the border without infrastructure on that border.

brickster69 · 13-08-2019 03:57PM

ath262 wrote: »

Incorrect - since the U.K. is leaving it will no longer be in the SM or CU, so requiring checks on good entering the EU and the associated tariffs - all due to actions of the U.K.

But it does not have to be carried out at the border does it. Ireland will be told to do checks at the border. WTO rules say checks on goods can be carried out away from any border. In that case the border will be open so the GFA will be be broken.

True or not ?

fash · 13-08-2019 03:58PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Incorrect. the Lisbon Treaty clearly states that " any country can leave the EU " It was signed by all members including Ireland. It does not say any country apart from the UK can leave.

"Leave" does not imply leaving the SM or CU.
Nor does it imply that Ireland will allow an post-leave agreement to be made without appropriate concessions.

And since we are talking about parties complying with their treaty obligations, why not start with the GFA.

brickster69 wrote: »

If the EU do not want to preserve an open border by checking goods away from the frontier and insist on goods being checked directly on the border then that is it's choice.

The only reason the EU cannot accept goods being checked away from the border is that the whole world will see that it has been used as a weapon to keep the UK in the CM and CU.

A clear breach of the obligation to avoid a hard border or associated checks - as set out and agreed by the UK in the joint report as being necessary for the UK to comply with its obligations under the GFA .

jm08 · 13-08-2019 03:58PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

In a way it does. Irish cheese is packed in the UK by Ornua in Staffordshire. This one factory produces 40% of all the hard cheese consumed in the UK. So is it UK cheese or Irish?

Ornua (formerly known as The Irish Dairy Board) is an Irish co-operative company set up by the Irish State. It owns the brands Dairygold etc. I doubt very much if it is processing British cheese (unless it comes from NI)!

prawnsambo · 13-08-2019 03:59PM

brickster69 wrote: »

But it does not have to be carried out at the border does it. Ireland will be told to do checks at the border. WTO rules say checks on goods can be carried out away from any border. In that case the border will be open so the GFA will be be broken.

True or not ?

Please quote these WTO rules.

Kermit.de.frog · 13-08-2019 04:00PM

brickster69 wrote: »

the whole world will see that it has been used as a weapon to keep the UK in the CM and CU.

This seems like a comment under a Daily Express article.

I'll just say you're wrong and leave it at that. Life's too short.

ath262 · 13-08-2019 04:01PM

brickster69 wrote: »

....In that case the border will be open so the GFA will be be broken.

True or not ?

by the actions of the UK

fash · 13-08-2019 04:01PM

brickster69 wrote: »

But it does not have to be carried out at the border does it. Ireland will be told to do checks at the border. WTO rules say checks on goods can be carried out away from any border. In that case the border will be open so the GFA will be be broken.

True or not ?

False- an "associated check" in breach of the Joint Report and a massive interference with the all Ireland economy - this is aside from the fact that it is not practical or effective - especially given the UK proposals to deviate from EU agriculture norms.

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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