Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 4

wirelessdude01 · 09-08-2019 12:39PM

The amount of people trying to unload unwanted tickets today is frightening. MadWest Radio is like a one stop shop for all your unwanted ticketing needs

corny · 09-08-2019 12:57PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Corny I much respect your opinion as I know of old you so rightly study the minutiae of the game greatly whilst not always agreeing with you.

I thought he did a very decent article on our kickouts last week.

Re this article to the winners all the plaudits go and lionising of same.Totally agree with you re Quinlavin.I get the impression you believe there is a certain hype around our Keegan which he ill deserves.The journalist has only so many words per article and as you well know is in the business of trying to hype up contests.That's the context.Some of us are simple creatures and deal in brass tacks.

I have'nt watched the match back as yet but agree Murphy came out on top.He has been nowhere near his best this season.

Re Paddy,it's best said that Ryan McHugh is not expected to largely carry out defensive duties to same degree as less important players.So the two lads were largely left to their own devices and the three points on the scoreboard indicate Paddy came out well on top.TBH as you say it the O Sheas and Boyle and the team as a totality should get the plaudits.

The article is more interesting in terms of the attempt at lateral thinking/thinking outside the box in an attempt to nullify to of the greatest threats Dublin possess because that's going to be necessary if we're going to have a shot at winning this game.Tis like a game of chess.Keegan has played in varied positions which might be considered outside his comfort zone full back against Sean Kavanagh and midfield against Enda Smith.I am hoping Paddy is a good match up for McCaffrey.

Unfortunately I think your team possess too many threats for us to nullify.I think your first 15,McCaffrey,Fenton,O Callaghan and Mannion in particular have greatly improved and Howard has added a new dimension.Too many things at the moment will have to go right for us on the day.Most importantly we will likely need a conversion rate of 60+%.

I can't agree that McCarthy is overrated,he won the 2017 final for Dublin when it was there for the taking at the death.A wonderful footballer.

Genuinely flattered. Thanks.

I don't mean to downplay Keegan or Durcan (especially not Durcan) as footballers. Both are brilliant competitors and great attackers but I do think Keegan is overrated as a defender.

There's an unquestioned group think at play that he is man marker extraordinaire. He's not. I don't see him make the interventions good man markers make. Quite the contrary, i regularly see him beaten when his man has the ball. Doesn't happen to great defenders. Johnny Cooper for example. He has made a career out of beating his man to the ball and being especially difficult to go around. Thats what a man marker does.

In a game littered with dispossessions how many were Keegans last week? He still came out with credit in some quarters. He's been anonymous all season if we're honest. Whats the bets he gets an All Star nomination.

Reputation counts for a lot in peoples perception in these things and its not just Mayo players that stand out for me. You probably remember my problem with Cian O' Sullivan the master sweeper and his 'unseen' work a few years back. Colm Cavanagh the same. Or Brian Howard who has been walking on water this summer and last. He hasn't established a huge reputation yet though. Last year he was wrongfully overlooked for YFOTY and this year despite being easily Dublins best player to date he's overlooked in the build up to this game and more than likely the end of season awards. The same for Mannion and James McCarthy. They had to forge a reputation before people actually acknowledged what they were doing on the pitch. I'm ranting now but Mannion scored 6 or 7 points from play against Monaghan a few years back. It was a display worthy of reverence. It was ****ing ignored in the media. If Andy Moran or Bernard Brogan did it....

Watch what Keegan does as a defender and don't rely on the fact his man mightn't score. Correlation and causation and all that.

NabyLadistheman · 09-08-2019 01:14PM

Anybody that calls James McCarthy over-rated needs there head examined

finisklin · 09-08-2019 01:21PM

McCarthy did a lot of the heavy lifting in the 2017 final, more so than Fenton. The final 10 minutes he came into it as Aido tired and Shemie was subbed. He's a danger for sure.

This Mayo team is fitter this year and certainly look leaner. I think the impact of last weekend on them is over stated. They will come in battle hardened from the start, for the tightest of tussels.

Jason Doherty is a loss for us. A hardy buck who did well in the 2017 final. He had a great goal chance that was saved by cluxton.

When will teams be announced?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 09-08-2019 01:26PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The amount of people trying to unload unwanted tickets today is frightening. MadWest Radio is like a one stop shop for all your unwanted ticketing needs

Why?

Chalk McHugh · 09-08-2019 01:27PM

James McCarthy wasn't in the game at all in 2017 in first half. He was cleaned out in.midfield area. He came into the game in last 25 minutes scoring two crucial points. Great player over the years but he lacks the real stardust quality the likes of Fenton, McCaffrey and Kilkenny have.

flasher0030 · 09-08-2019 02:00PM

corny wrote: »

Genuinely flattered. Thanks.

I don't mean to downplay Keegan or Durcan (especially not Durcan) as footballers. Both are brilliant competitors and great attackers but I do think Keegan is overrated as a defender.

There's an unquestioned group think at play that he is man marker extraordinaire. He's not. I don't see him make the interventions good man markers make. Quite the contrary, i regularly see him beaten when his man has the ball. Doesn't happen to great defenders. Johnny Cooper for example. He has made a career out of beating his man to the ball and being especially difficult to go around. Thats what a man marker does.

In a game littered with dispossessions how many were Keegans last week? He still came out with credit in some quarters. He's been anonymous all season if we're honest. Whats the bets he gets an All Star nomination.

Reputation counts for a lot in peoples perception in these things and its not just Mayo players that stand out for me. You probably remember my problem with Cian O' Sullivan the master sweeper and his 'unseen' work a few years back. Colm Cavanagh the same. Or Brian Howard who has been walking on water this summer and last. He hasn't established a huge reputation yet though. Last year he was wrongfully overlooked for YFOTY and this year despite being easily Dublins best player to date he's overlooked in the build up to this game and more than likely the end of season awards. The same for Mannion and James McCarthy. They had to forge a reputation before people actually acknowledged what they were doing on the pitch. I'm ranting now but Mannion scored 6 or 7 points from play against Monaghan a few years back. It was a display worthy of reverence. It was ****ing ignored in the media. If Andy Moran or Bernard Brogan did it....

Watch what Keegan does as a defender and don't rely on the fact his man mightn't score. Correlation and causation and all that.

I think you're definition of a good defender is way too narrow. You're talking about corner back style teak tight on your man, holding onto the shorts, jersey etc. The distinction between defender, midfielder and forwards has become a bit more blurred in the past 15 or so years, with rotation policies happening. You can't just judge a player that named in the backs because he hasn't XX number of dispossessions. for Paddy Durcan last week, he got 2 first half points against Ryan McHugh. Laid down a marker - to put that tiny bit of doubt into McHugh's head before he goes bombing forward. McHugh became disillusioned. Confidence drained. I think he only touched the ball 12 times in the whole game. Same with Keegan. He shadows people around, and looks to make the intelligent attacking run. See what he did to Ciaran Kilkenny couple of years ago. Connolly couple of times. It disrupts their focus on what their own principle role is.
Many players get sucked into the game, full swing, hammer and tongs. But a little intelligence can also get you a long way. Keegan has that in a game. Good composure. The incident with the GPS tracker device would have been genius if it had the effect he wanted it i.e. if it caught Dean Rock's eyesight. Who would have the wits to think of that in the last few minutes of a frantic all ireland final.

wirelessdude01 · 09-08-2019 02:08PM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote:

Why?

Because people were in a panic and bought as much tickets as they could and now have too many, also think the weather is changing some people's minds.

Looptheloop30 · 09-08-2019 02:17PM

I'd rather them being advertised on midwest than on reservoirdubs

Lisbon67 · 09-08-2019 02:36PM

Pride before the fall?

corny · 09-08-2019 02:57PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

I think you're definition of a good defender is way too narrow. You're talking about corner back style teak tight on your man, holding onto the shorts, jersey etc. The distinction between defender, midfielder and forwards has become a bit more blurred in the past 15 or so years, with rotation policies happening. You can't just judge a player that named in the backs because he hasn't XX number of dispossessions. for Paddy Durcan last week, he got 2 first half points against Ryan McHugh. Laid down a marker - to put that tiny bit of doubt into McHugh's head before he goes bombing forward. McHugh became disillusioned. Confidence drained. I think he only touched the ball 12 times in the whole game. Same with Keegan. He shadows people around, and looks to make the intelligent attacking run. See what he did to Ciaran Kilkenny couple of years ago. Connolly couple of times. It disrupts their focus on what their own principle role is.
Many players get sucked into the game, full swing, hammer and tongs. But a little intelligence can also get you a long way. Keegan has that in a game. Good composure. The incident with the GPS tracker device would have been genius if it had the effect he wanted it i.e. if it caught Dean Rock's eyesight. Who would have the wits to think of that in the last few minutes of a frantic all ireland final.

I just don't find any of that (especially the bold bit) convincing. What you're effectively saying is defending is judged on how many points you score against your man. Its not. Defending should be judged on how well you stop your opponent. Durcan made one tackle on McHugh. That was it. It was McHughs fault he couldn't get into the game and that can (and did imo) happen without any contribution from Paddy. It wasn't like McHugh was the only Donegal player with his head up his arse on the day. Durcan scored three super points, McHugh had an off day and henceforth Paddy Durcan will be known as a tight man marker! Thats the way these things are judged. Keegans/Durcans stock as a man marker rises when they score points. How does that work? Is scoring a point worth two tackles or interceptions or something. Its mystifying.

For balance and not to just pick on Mayo players Philly McMahon is another good example. Great man for a score, loads of football in him and that seems to mask the fact he is an absolute liability as a defender. Stands a mile off his man and doesn't seem interested in ever closing down space to get a tackle in.

flasher0030 · 09-08-2019 03:04PM

I know kick-outs have been scrutinized - between Clarke & Hennelly etc. But what are our options for this one. I think we have to go with Hennelly. And even then, Dublin will put full press on them. I don't think it any way alleviates our problem. If Hennelly kicks it long, who does he avoid. Across the middle third, Dublin will have Fenton, Howard, probably MacCauley, Scully - all great fetchers of the ball. How does he avoid all of those. If he can bypass them, you'd have McCaffrey and Cian O'Sullivan running on to the ball. Probably Murchan or John Small on the other wing. I don't see any out-ball. Can't play it short. Mayo not confident enough for that type of game, and slippy ball. Goal or 2 for Dublin, and it's over.

Will it be a case of the big punt up to Aidan, everybody swarm around and scrap for the breaks, hoping that lady luck will be on our side.

EICVD · 09-08-2019 03:12PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

I could be wrong, but I think he goes down in folklore because he caught a ball at the end of one of the Mayo Dublin matches, I think it was the one where the Dublin forwards hauled down the Mayo backs. And he did something else good at the end of the game as well. I can't remember. But then the legend became that James McCarthy dragged Dublin over the line.
I think it was something like that.

He’s only one of many All Ireland winning legends we have :-D

flasher0030 · 09-08-2019 03:23PM

corny wrote: »

I just don't find any of that (especially the bold bit) convincing. What you're effectively saying is defending is judged on how many points you score against your man. Its not. Defending should be judged on how well you stop your opponent. Durcan made one tackle on McHugh. That was it. It was McHughs fault he couldn't get into the game and that can (and did imo) happen without any contribution from Paddy. It wasn't like McHugh was the only Donegal player with his head up his arse on the day. Durcan scored three super points, McHugh had an off day and henceforth Paddy Durcan will be known as a tight man marker! Thats the way these things are judged. Keegans/Durcans stock as a man marker rises when they score points. How does that work? Is scoring a point worth two tackles or interceptions or something. Its mystifying.

For balance and not to just pick on Mayo players Philly McMahon is another good example. Great man for a score, loads of football in him and that seems to mask the fact he is an absolute liability as a defender. Stands a mile off his man and doesn't seem interested in ever closing down space to get a tackle in.

No, I'm saying throw off the shackles of labeling a player under a particular category e.g. good defender, good forward etc. Those days are gone. Keegan, Durcan, Cooper, McMahon – they are all good footballers. They have different skillsets, styles, some of which make some footballers better than others. I’d take Lee Keegan all day long, if he sores a couple of points in a game, whilst keeping his man scoreless, or might get one from play. And that is what Lee Keegan has done on a consistent basis. The article says that in the last 5 games that Durcan played, only one of his markers scored. That’s one game in 5. I’d take that all day long. Does Paddy have some supernatural force that causes all of his targets to have “their heads up their ar$e” and have an off day. It’s some coincidence that it happens almost every match. Durcan is not really known as a tight man marker (I think). He is regarded by us anyway as a lively player with good skills, good eye for a point, who can cause problems for an opposition attacker. In this case, I am referring to Jack Mc, who is named at wing-back, but who spends half his time attacking anyway.
Haven’t been monitoring Philly lately, but he was pretty close to Aidan O’Shea a couple of years ago when marking him in and around the square!!! They could have posed as Siamese twins.

Chalk McHugh · 09-08-2019 03:32PM

Lee Keegan is over rated imo. I'd rather Keith Higgins, Barret, Durcan or Boyle. I like and respect most of Mayo's players except two which i have little time for, that being Cillian OConnor and Leroy Keegan. I'm sure every Mayo person on here has a select few Dublin players they dislike. Possibly all 15 for some. I like K Higgins,Durcan, O Sheas, McLoughlin and A Moran but draw the line with Leroy.

seligehgit · 09-08-2019 03:34PM

Dublin Preview

https://themayonews.podomatic.com/enclosure/2019-08-07T12_03_19-07_00.mp3

spurshero · 09-08-2019 04:12PM

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

James McCarthy wasn't in the game at all in 2017 in first half. He was cleaned out in.midfield area. He came into the game in last 25 minutes scoring two crucial points. Great player over the years but he lacks the real stardust quality the likes of Fenton, McCaffrey and Kilkenny have.

Cleaned out . Lol. He got the man of match award

Pdoghue · 09-08-2019 04:19PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

Many players get sucked into the game, full swing, hammer and tongs. But a little intelligence can also get you a long way. Keegan has that in a game. Good composure. The incident with the GPS tracker device would have been genius if it had the effect he wanted it i.e. if it caught Dean Rock's eyesight. Who would have the wits to think of that in the last few minutes of a frantic all ireland final.

Seriously, you're saying that what he did with the GPS is to be lauded?

Chalk McHugh · 09-08-2019 04:19PM

spurshero wrote: »

Cleaned out . Lol. He got the man of match award

I should have clarified in the first half he was cleaned out.

09-08-2019 04:31PM

Pdoghue wrote: »

Seriously, you're saying that what he did with the GPS is to be lauded?

Absolutely. It was a selfless act for his County. It's well know that without that GPS Keegan got lost on the way home from Dublin and spent 3 days circling Mullingar.

That's what he was willing to sacrifice for the win!

ToBeFrank123 · 09-08-2019 04:34PM

The closer we get to the game the less optimistic I am. I think this game will be a stretch too far for Mayo this year.
You'd want a full strength squad with players playing at their best. So far we've had numerous injuries, and still missing key players like DOC and Parsons who might be good for a short cameo. Doherty a huge loss, one of our few scoring forwards and a great tackler.
Happy enough with the year especially the league win and if someone said we'd be in an AI semi final after the Roscommon game, most supporters would have taken it. In fact most would have said it'd be a miracle.
Good luck to both teams. My gut says a 6 point minimum win for Dublin. Anything less than that would be another miracle.

charolais0153 · 09-08-2019 06:06PM

When is the team out lads, spose it sinly a dummy anyway

PCeeeee · 09-08-2019 08:30PM

Good luck tomorrow men from a Galway man. I'll be below in the pub an hour early to get a seat.

Mayo in fairness keep on coming and whatever happens they'll give the Dubs a run tomorrow.

Lisbon67 · 09-08-2019 09:00PM

No Brogan, ROC, or EOG

Carol25 · 09-08-2019 09:05PM

I keep thinking about how Mayo put in a big performance against Galway this year and then proceeded to flop against Kerry when turnaround time was short, the only positive I take from it was the match wasn’t knock out and the stakes are much higher tmrw. I also worry about how quiet Dublin are in the media...like they’re waiting in the long grass.
On the positives, Mayo have taken a tough road to get to this semi and will certainly be battle ready. They’ve nothing to lose and can beat anyone when they’re on form. The weather could also affect this, what are people’s thoughts on a wet/blustery day? Who would it favour, Mayo or Dublin..

jr86 · 09-08-2019 09:07PM

Connolly unsurprisingly set to feature

Will give the crowd some lift in fairness. Given his quality he had to be picked really

Martina1991 · 09-08-2019 09:18PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote:

Actually im wondering the same, is it a free for all or do people respect the booked seats? Not too pushed but dont fancy standing for the journey. Anyway looking forward to it, haent been to a match by train for a while either

Just after looking at my train ticket.

Seats are reserved for the outward journey but not on the return journey.

So it will be a free for all on the way home. May the odds be in our favour

Fann Linn · 09-08-2019 09:22PM

Lisbon67 wrote: »

No Brogan, ROC, or EOG

No sentimentality with Gavin regarding Brogan, not surprised about Rory however. He had a howler in Omagh last week.

cute geoge · 09-08-2019 09:24PM

jr86 wrote: »

Connolly unsurprisingly set to feature

Will give the crowd some lift in fairness. Given his quality he had to be picked really

Connolly on his performance against tyrone last sunday won't pose much problem,i also taught MDmC was fairly rusty .The dublin subs bench is awesome though

Lisbon67 · 09-08-2019 09:27PM

cute geoge wrote: »

Connolly on his performance against tyrone last sunday won't pose much problem,i also taught MDmC was fairly rusty .The dublin subs bench is awesome though

Is it any better than Mayos bench

Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 4

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