Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Shelga wrote: »

Saiid Javid on the radio just now, commenting upon the fact that the UK has just experienced a quarter of negative growth- “What is driving this is uncertainty, and the best way to give certainty is to leave on October the 31st.”

Ie the best way to give certainty to business is to leave with no deal on the 31st, to rip up all rules of trading overnight, to eliminate standards, with absolutely nothing to replace them. Yes, that’s really going to provide certainty, Sajid.

A no-deal Brexit will mean the UK goes into severe recession overnight. How he can claim anything else is incredible.

That this charlatan is the actual Chancellor of the Exchequer is terrifying and abhorrent.

I love that uncertainty is a cause of recessive growth in itself. Not the actual causes of the uncertainty or the inherent meaning of the word. Somebody should explain to Javid that if there was certainty that the UK would leave without a deal, the bottom would fall out of the economy instead of it running on life support because there's a chance that it might not leave without a deal.

Shelga wrote: »

Saiid Javid on the radio just now, commenting upon the fact that the UK has just experienced a quarter of negative growth- “What is driving this is uncertainty, and the best way to give certainty is to leave on October the 31st.”

Ie the best way to give certainty to business is to leave with no deal on the 31st, to rip up all rules of trading overnight, to eliminate standards, with absolutely nothing to replace them. Yes, that’s really going to provide certainty, Sajid.

A no-deal Brexit will mean the UK goes into severe recession overnight. How he can claim anything else is incredible.

That this charlatan is the actual Chancellor of the Exchequer is terrifying and abhorrent.

It just can't be overstated. UK are completely lost. Madness.

Shelga wrote: »

Saiid Javid on the radio just now, commenting upon the fact that the UK has just experienced a quarter of negative growth- “What is driving this is uncertainty, and the best way to give certainty is to leave on October the 31st.”

Ie the best way to give certainty to business is to leave with no deal on the 31st, to rip up all rules of trading overnight, to eliminate standards, with absolutely nothing to replace them. Yes, that’s really going to provide certainty, Sajid.

A no-deal Brexit will mean the UK goes into severe recession overnight. How he can claim anything else is incredible.

That this charlatan is the actual Chancellor of the Exchequer is terrifying and abhorrent.

It's quite amusing that so much focus by the Brexiteers is to get to that Oct 31 deadline to get out with a hard Brexit, do or die.

Simply no realisation or discussion about moving forward with the EU afterwards. As if the withdrawal agreement disappears overnight and they can simply move to the easiest FTA in history.

You can imagine the UK negotiaters arriving the following day in Brussels to say, job dusted, on to FTA now. And the perplexed look as they keep repeating that while the EU replies, ahem.. border, bill, and citizen rights.

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

When did it turn from we saved Europe into we are at war with Europe and the anti European sentiment?

We know the press in the uk have been anti Eu for at least 40 years. How did it come about and how has it lasted so long leading to this?
I can’t help but see a small cadre of billionaire men of a certain age who all own newspapers and tv stations in a cigar smoky room drinking brandy.

Channel 5 had a great documentary on last night and last week "The Trouble With the Tories"
https://www.channel5.com/show/portillo-the-trouble-with-the-tories/

Went into all the history off thatcher and how she was the start of the core Euro-Skepticism and how it's grown and grown from there. Was great viewing. might be on a catchup player.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's quite amusing that so much focus by the Brexiteers is to get to that Oct 31 deadline to get out with a hard Brexit, do or die.

Simply no realisation or discussion about moving forward with the EU afterwards. As if the withdrawal agreement disappears overnight and they can simply move to the easiest FTA in history.

You can imagine the UK negotiaters arriving the following day in Brussels to say, job dusted, on to FTA now. And the perplexed look as they keep repeating that while the EU replies, ahem.. border, bill, and citizen rights.

Symptomatic of typically-British economic short-termism, setting the political agenda as it does these days: get over the opportunity line, cash the chips...alright, now where's the next hustle to be had?

Not really a problem, so long as the political influence of lobbyists remains balanced by a combination of domestic electoral pressure and commonsensically-consensual geopolitics.

But then, once the lobbyists themselves get into power, such as in the US and the UK...

Went into all the history off thatcher and how she was the start of the core Euro-Skepticism

One of my core articles is that Thatcher never took the UK out of the EU , she was right to be skeptical and managed to get the rebate out of them - but she never wanted to leave.

Robert McGrath wrote: »

Watching that Mark Francois clip, I notice that his debating rival mentioned the mistakes made by generals who “believed in Britain” in the past.

This is something that should probably be mentioned more often. Every time a Brexiter invokes the Blitz spirit of WWII, they should be reminded that there as a war before that in which huge swathes of the ordinary youth of Britain were sacrificed because of the arrogant and imperialistic follies of the upper classes and political elites ... WWI is a much better metaphor for this sh*tshow

sure they think they 'won' that one too

Enzokk wrote: »

As for Johnson, he will circumvent parliament to get no-deal to get rid of the Brexit Party threat to get a bigger majority so he can be PM for longer. I can see no other reason for going through with the rhetoric they have going on other than they want to leave without a deal. We know Conservative Party voters will vote Brexit Party if Brexit is not delivered. If it is then he doesn't have to worry about that threat.

I think there is a lot of logic in this.

Go to no-deal and call election. This gets rid of the Brexit Party & UKIP. This also gets rid of the Eurosceptics in the Tory party for once and for all because they are now out of the EU.

Now, go back to the EU for an FTA deal. EU says that's grand, but we need EU Citizens rights, the backstop and the bill settled.

Boris says, that's fine no problem. Howls from the Eurosceptics and Farage. Boris' response? You wanted us to be out. We are out. Boris is now in power for five years, and that's all he cares about. Talk of treachery be damned - we said we were going to leave the EU, we have left the EU. That topic is now closed. With our new FTA (same as WA, but never mind about that), plucky little Britain is the country that took on the EU - and won.

amacca wrote: »

I'm a farmer so have lost a lot of money and under a lot of pressure in the business at least in part due to Brexit but if it wasn't so serious and potentially capable of running me out of business I would find what's going on over in Brexitland fascinating to watch.

Has any country ever managed to self implode so spectacularly from a position of relative strength and importance ... talk about manoeuvring themselves into a rock and hard place .... what's happening now reminds me of a guy stuck in quicksand thrashing around in an attempt to escape and only succeeding in sinking further.....i hope we won't have to witness death throes in October.

Neutral onlookers must be highly amused.

I think most functioning democracies would be able to get themselves out of the Brexit mess relatively easily - a second referendum, cancel the referendum result, some sort of political compromise between the parties, whatever.

The fact that they can't tells us it is a deeply dysfunctional country at a political level, with too many liars, spoofers, fantasists and zealots across the entire political and media spectrum.