Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

alancostello · 08-08-2019 12:26AM

Shamrockj wrote: »

Glasses cant be in the cabin for take off and the cabin has to be ready long before the aircraft is lined up for take off! Judging from the review a welcome drink was offered just after take off which doesn't seem had to me.

Poor wording on my part, I should have said in the line ready for takeoff, I don't expect the crew to be collecting glassware as the engines spool up.

I'm aware glasses can't be in the cabin for takeoff, but an aircraft has a not insignificant amount of time from when the last stragglers pass through the curtain holder to the time everyone is settled, seated, doors are closed, pushback occurs, engines are started up, safety video is screened (which means crew are not giving the demonstration), one would think there is enough time to distribute and gather up what is at most 16 glasses of juice or sparkling wine (and yes, I know there are other things going on during this time too). Many other airlines manage to do it on similarly configured and often denser configured narrow body aircraft, it is far from impossible, that is my point.

joeysoap · 08-08-2019 12:48AM

Is anybody that desperate for a drink?

alancostello · 08-08-2019 12:58AM

joeysoap wrote: »

Is anybody that desperate for a drink?

At this stage, I could go for one honestly.

It's not life and death of course, nobody that's silly. But it's a point of differentiation from service on the A330 and from other airlines I'm sure it's something the pax paying potentially thousands of dollars will notice, and obviously something travel bloggers notice too, so it's worth talking about.

Jack1985 · 08-08-2019 01:05AM

Locker10a wrote: »

I’m not sure any?many, airlines do preflight drinks where you board through door 1L. It would be a disaster with the flow of boarding.

I know some of the American carriers do, but with re-usable cups and I can appreciate as to why.

GFrye · 08-08-2019 01:44AM

alancostello wrote: »

https://onemileatatime.com/aer-lingus-a321lr-business-class-review/

The first review of the A321LR that I've seen, I'd note that there were 5 crew but no pre-departure beverages.

Some key points which have been discussed previously in this thread, but not confirmed before actual launch:
- Yes, there's WiFi onboard.
- While the galley area is smaller than on the A330, there's a snack/treat area set up for C class passengers.

Stephen Strange · 08-08-2019 06:03AM

Locker10a wrote: »

I’d be interested to know how the West apron would work too.
It would be great to alleviate the taxi and turnaround delays caused by lack of stands. But how would they bus pax and luggage across active taxiways

No busy taxiways to cross. Busses travel past Pier 1, cross 1 quiet apron crossing point up at the Dublin Aerospace hangars, join the perimeter road and take that road around to West Apron. The problem is, that when the new runway is complete, afaik that journey becomes very long (new peri road) until they build the planned tunnel under 16/34.

Locker10a · 08-08-2019 09:41AM

Stephen Strange wrote: »

No busy taxiways to cross. Busses travel past Pier 1, cross 1 quiet apron crossing point up at the Dublin Aerospace hangars, join the perimeter road and take that road around to West Apron. The problem is, that when the new runway is complete, afaik that journey becomes very long (new peri road) until they build the planned tunnel under 16/34.

Thanks I understand that, but to me that’s still a very very long journey.
Would it not make more sense to use the remote stands parallel to pier 1 or will they be decommissioned with the runway works?

08-08-2019 11:38AM

Stephen Strange wrote: »

No busy taxiways to cross. Busses travel past Pier 1, cross 1 quiet apron crossing point up at the Dublin Aerospace hangars, join the perimeter road and take that road around to West Apron. The problem is, that when the new runway is complete, afaik that journey becomes very long (new peri road) until they build the planned tunnel under 16/34.

You’ve ignored the planned crossing point at the end of pier 1 across 16/34 that will be built over this winter period ready for use for next summer. It’ll make the travel even shorter.

Locker10a · 08-08-2019 12:15PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You’ve ignored the planned crossing point at the end of pier 1 across 16/34 that will be built over this winter period ready for use for next summer. It’ll make the travel even shorter.

That’s interesting, I hope DAA make a decent job of this as there’s expansion coming next year. Anyone who’s used the remote stands at AMS will know how well it *can* be done.
I’ll assume there’s an investment in more busses and drivers too for this.

cson · 08-08-2019 03:55PM

I know most on here are excited about the A321LRs because they're shiny and new but to me they represent a further degradation of the Y pax (and cabin) experience that began with 3x3x3 configurations on the 787. There are 168 Y pax for 1 aisle and 2 lav's. ~7hrs flying time is not going to be fun on these.

NH2013 · 08-08-2019 03:56PM

cson wrote: »

I know most on here are excited about the A321LRs because they're shiny and new but to me they represent a further degradation of the Y pax (and cabin) experience that began with 3x3x3 configurations on the 787. There are 168 Y pax for 1 aisle and 2 lav's. ~7hrs flying time is not going to be fun on these.

There are actually 3 lav's down the back of the aircraft for economy and 1 up the front for business, the part about the aisle remains true though.

Keep in mind though it may improve some traveller's journeys if they're able to offer direct flights such as their flights to BDL or MSP, where you no longer have to get a connection. These are routes that just can't support a widebody aircraft so its either single aisle direct or else a widebody connecting flight, and if you're really pushed about the single aisle not being for you the previous connection option will still available as well as the direct, probably also at a cheaper price as well due to the competition from the direct route.

alancostello · 08-08-2019 04:37PM

NH2013 wrote: »

There are actually 3 lav's down the back of the aircraft for economy and 1 up the front for business, the part about the aisle remains true though.

Keep in mind though it may improve some traveller's journeys if they're able to offer direct flights such as their flights to BDL or MSP, where you no longer have to get a connection. These are routes that just can't support a widebody aircraft so its either single aisle direct or else a widebody connecting flight, and if you're really pushed about the single aisle not being for you the previous connection option will still available as well as the direct, probably also at a cheaper price as well due to the competition from the direct route.

Not to mention that as far as individual passenger experience goes the seats are actually wider than on a 9-abreast 787 and they feature the latest IFE, WiFi, and power points. I’d happily take the A321LR on a 7-8 hour flight, I don’t personally spend much time in the aisle myself but to each their own.

Stephen Strange · 08-08-2019 05:03PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You’ve ignored the planned crossing point at the end of pier 1 across 16/34 that will be built over this winter period ready for use for next summer. It’ll make the travel even shorter.

Not ignored, just didn't know about it! I imagine that will be escorted only though, no?

goingnowhere · 08-08-2019 07:19PM

And the A32x is bigger inside than the 737/757 as the cross section is wider, also quieter. Its a step up from the current narrow bodies in use on long flights

cson · 08-08-2019 07:22PM

NH2013 wrote: »

There are actually 3 lav's down the back of the aircraft for economy and 1 up the front for business, the part about the aisle remains true though.

Keep in mind though it may improve some traveller's journeys if they're able to offer direct flights such as their flights to BDL or MSP, where you no longer have to get a connection. These are routes that just can't support a widebody aircraft so its either single aisle direct or else a widebody connecting flight, and if you're really pushed about the single aisle not being for you the previous connection option will still available as well as the direct, probably also at a cheaper price as well due to the competition from the direct route.

3 lavs down the back means a ton of congregation for anyone in the last 2/3 rows of the aircraft. The A332 in a 2-4-2 configuration is the best ship for transatlantic Y pax, and having experienced pretty much every Y product transatlantic you won't change my mind on that.

NH2013 · 08-08-2019 07:38PM

cson wrote: »

3 lavs down the back means a ton of congregation for anyone in the last 2/3 rows of the aircraft. The A332 in a 2-4-2 configuration is the best ship for transatlantic Y pax, and having experienced pretty much every Y product transatlantic you won't change my mind on that.

I don't disagree, given the choice I'd rather an A330 by a country mile, especially if travelling in Y, 2/4/2 is very roomy, and it definitely has a more open spacious feel, but if flying to places such as MSP, BDL, I'd still rather a direct flight than having to connect, which is something an A321 sized aircraft allows.

goingnowhere · 08-08-2019 08:04PM

A330 is great, possible one of the hidden reasons for EI's success when the competition is running 10 across 777 with the horribly dated interior

kevinandrew · 08-08-2019 08:21PM

The A330 (and A340) is undoubtably a passenger favourite, the only aircraft to come close in terms of comfort is the 767 with its 2-3-2 configuration.

Aer Lingus really did pick a winner and it’s served them incredibly well, it’s a transatlantic machine at heart and does the job perfectly. The A330neo may well continue that legacy into the 2020s but we’ll have to wait and see.

As for the A321LR, I understand that down the back a 3-3 layout isn’t ideal, particularly in the window seat but narrowbody aircraft on long haul is the future and if I had to choose between a 737/757 and a A321LR, the Airbus would win every time.

Bussywussy · 08-08-2019 08:38PM

NH2013 wrote: »

There are actually 3 lav's down the back of the aircraft for economy and 1 up the front for business, the part about the aisle remains true though.

Keep in mind though it may improve some traveller's journeys if they're able to offer direct flights such as their flights to BDL or MSP, where you no longer have to get a connection. These are routes that just can't support a widebody aircraft so its either single aisle direct or else a widebody connecting flight, and if you're really pushed about the single aisle not being for you the previous connection option will still available as well as the direct, probably also at a cheaper price as well due to the competition from the direct route.

There's only 2 lavs at the back and one is extremely tight even for someone of an average build with a cabin crew seat built into it

sdanseo · 08-08-2019 08:40PM

sdanseo wrote: »

The same way they do it in a huge number of other major airports. Basic traffic management.

Locker10a wrote: »

Don’t be so sensible, this is Dublin Airport we’re talking about

Stephen Strange wrote: »

No busy taxiways to cross. Busses travel past Pier 1, cross 1 quiet apron crossing point up at the Dublin Aerospace hangars, join the perimeter road and take that road around to West Apron. The problem is, that when the new runway is complete, afaik that journey becomes very long (new peri road) until they build the planned tunnel under 16/34.

Locker10a wrote: »

Thanks I understand that, but to me that’s still a very very long journey.
Would it not make more sense to use the remote stands parallel to pier 1 or will they be decommissioned with the runway works?

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Not ignored, just didn't know about it! I imagine that will be escorted only though, no?

Something to aid this dicussion which I hadn't realised - most aprons and taxiways are covered by streetview (which is about to consume the next hour of my life).
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4226598,-6.2515589,2a,60y,171.18h,86.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2VsfbHjt6Vy6rXbO_2pGnw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Terrifyingly, looking at the date, it's taken me 4 years to notice.

alancostello · 08-08-2019 08:41PM

Bussywussy wrote: »

There's only 2 lavs at the back and one is extremely tight even for someone of an average build with a cabin crew seat built into it

No, there are three lavs for economy, two in the rear bulkhead and one on the left hand side behind row 34. On the right hand side there's a half galley. You can see it on the seat map online.

Bussywussy · 08-08-2019 08:43PM

alancostello wrote: »

No, there are three lavs for economy, two in the rear bulkhead and one on the left hand side behind row 34. On the right hand side there's a half galley. You can see it on the seat map online.

Sorry you're correct,it's very tight squeeze there,you could probably rule out the lav with the crew seat attached as they'll probably won't stow it

alancostello · 08-08-2019 08:49PM

Bussywussy wrote: »

Sorry you're correct,it's very tight squeeze there,you could probably rule out the lav with the crew seat attached as they'll probably won't stow it

I'd be amazed if that's the case as they'll surely need all three active. The curtain for the galley back there is on the right hand side so that seat isn't even behind the curtain and I doubt the crew want to sit out in the open.

The wall between the two rear bulkhead lavs is collapsible too to allow for disabled passengers to use the facilities where necessary so I can't imagine them blocking access to it, passengers could need the extra space for a variety of reasons.

Lapmo_Dancer · 08-08-2019 08:59PM

NH2013 wrote: »

I don't disagree, given the choice I'd rather an A330 by a country mile, especially if travelling in Y, 2/4/2 is very roomy, and it definitely has a more open spacious feel, but if flying to places such as MSP, BDL, I'd still rather a direct flight than having to connect, which is something an A321 sized aircraft allows.

Funnily enough, the 330 will be serving MSP 5 times weekly from mid June.

Tenger · 08-08-2019 11:38PM

kevinandrew wrote: »

.....
I agree that the ACF cabin was a questionable choice for inflight service delivery but it bears no relation to the boarding process.

From reading Airbus info online, ACF is the basis for the LR variant. Thus EI didnt have any choice in the matter. (But I do agree with you)

I would love to see a seatmap for TAP, they have 16/157 config I believe. And out of the LR customers they are the closest match imo. The majority of the other LR orders are for all Y class seating (Jetstar 230Y, Air Transat 215Y, Arkia/Air Arabia/Norwegian 220, Astana 16/150, Azores 16/174)

A321LR orders as per June for reference; TAP 14, EI 14, NAX 30, Air Transat 10, Jetstar 18, Qatar 8.
Arkia, Astana, Arabia, Azores all under 6 frames ordered.

GFrye wrote: »

Some key points which have been discussed previously in this thread, but not confirmed before actual launch:
- Yes, there's WiFi onboard.
- While the galley area is smaller than on the A330, there's a snack/treat area set up for C class passengers.

Wifi was pretty much confirmed from the 1st picture of EI-LRA without its engines.
I cant imagine where this snack/treat area is, considering they have a dedicated area like this on the A330.
Is it beside the boarding door? Or on a pull out tray in the galley?

Bussywussy wrote: »

Sorry you're correct,it's very tight squeeze there,you could probably rule out the lav with the crew seat attached as they'll probably won't stow it

I saw pics of the Easyjet A321neo. The crew seat is recessed into he toilet door (making that loo 4-5 inches smaller!) and it is flush against the galley wall when stowed with a locking bar.

kevinandrew · 09-08-2019 03:58AM

Tenger wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

.....
I agree that the ACF cabin was a questionable choice for inflight service delivery but it bears no relation to the boarding process.

From reading Airbus info online, ACF is the basis for the LR variant. Thus EI didnt have any choice in the matter. (But I do agree with you)

I would love to see a seatmap for TAP, they have 16/157 config I believe. And out of the LR customers they are the closest match imo. The majority of the other LR orders are for all Y class seating (Jetstar 230Y, Air Transat 215Y, Arkia/Air Arabia/Norwegian 220, Astana 16/150, Azores 16/174)

A321LR orders as per June for reference; TAP 14, EI 14, NAX 30, Air Transat 10, Jetstar 18, Qatar 8.
Arkia, Astana, Arabia, Azores all under 6 frames ordered.

I probably should have worded it better and said the bathroom position choices were questionable, Aer Lingus definitely had a choice in the matter as they are the only A321LR operator so far to opt for that configuration with the other airlines opting for something more sensible but at the expense of the total seat count.
Here's the TAP layout, looks pretty accurate from the photos I've seen;
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/TAP_Portugal/TAP_Portugal_Airbus_A321LR.php
The bathrooms are in more traditional config, one at the front, one behind business and two opposite each other behind the last row but before the galley. Here's the Aer Lingus layout for comparison;
https://paxex.aero/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/aer-lingus-a321lr-economy-class-seat-map.jpg
Again, this layout has no bearing on the boarding process as every airline must use L1 no matter what seating arrangements they have, but as we all know it does pose a potential issue for the inflight service delivery and Aer Lingus definitely had a choice when they went for this layout. I do however understand why it was chosen when you consider the full fleet could potentially lose out on an entire aircrafts worth of revenue if they removed rows to fit a more traditional layout like TAP has done.

adam88 · 09-08-2019 12:01PM

kevinandrew wrote: »

I probably should have worded it better and said the bathroom position choices were questionable, Aer Lingus definitely had a choice in the matter as they are the only A321LR operator so far to opt for that configuration with the other airlines opting for something more sensible but at the expense of the total seat count.
Here's the TAP layout, looks pretty accurate from the photos I've seen;
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/TAP_Portugal/TAP_Portugal_Airbus_A321LR.php
The bathrooms are in more traditional config, one at the front, one behind business and two opposite each other behind the last row but before the galley. Here's the Aer Lingus layout for comparison;
https://paxex.aero/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/aer-lingus-a321lr-economy-class-seat-map.jpg
Again, this layout has no bearing on the boarding process as every airline must use L1 no matter what seating arrangements they have, but as we all know it does pose a potential issue for the inflight service delivery and Aer Lingus definitely had a choice when they went for this layout. I do however understand why it was chosen when you consider the full fleet could potentially lose out on an entire aircrafts worth of revenue if they removed rows to fit a more traditional layout like TAP has done.

I don’t fancy being at the front of economy and needing the toilet in the middle of service. That’s gonna cause a lot of inconvenience.

If there’s enough complaints and cabin crew keep bringing it up do you think EI will go back to the drawing board and put in a toilet behind the curtain leaving LRA being the odd one out. Can a toilet be installed into LRA

Locker10a · 09-08-2019 12:36PM

adam88 wrote: »

I don’t fancy being at the front of economy and needing the toilet in the middle of service. That’s gonna cause a lot of inconvenience.

If there’s enough complaints and cabin crew keep bringing it up do you think EI will go back to the drawing board and put in a toilet behind the curtain leaving LRA being the odd one out. Can a toilet be installed into LRA

Doubt they’ll change it now, but maybe review it after a lot of pressure when it comes to the A321XLR.
I can see loads of economy pax going through the curtain into business class too when the carts are blocking the aisle during service, disturbing business class passengers.

joeysoap · 09-08-2019 12:37PM

TAP layout seems much more practical.

billy few mates · 09-08-2019 01:26PM

adam88 wrote: »

I don’t fancy being at the front of economy and needing the toilet in the middle of service. That’s gonna cause a lot of inconvenience.

If there’s enough complaints and cabin crew keep bringing it up do you think EI will go back to the drawing board and put in a toilet behind the curtain leaving LRA being the odd one out. Can a toilet be installed into LRA

I can pretty much guarantee you 100% they won't...

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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