TV licence collection privatised and replaced with device licence fee in 5 years

lsjmhar · 03-08-2019 10:56AM

CollyFlower wrote:

I'm all for marching when the time comes,... It'll be like IW, they'll back down if we come out in force and protest!

Irish water has not gone anywhere. They as just waiting and building their services. Everyone will be paying water charges here (except those exempt) and that has been agreed with Europe. We have signed up to this as part of the European Union. Likewise, we will all be paying a broadcasting charge!!!

Our budgets are controlled by Europe and our laws will be governed by Europe. They 're willing to wait 10/20 years to get everyone in line!!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‰

Micky 32 · 03-08-2019 10:57AM

CelticSeaShip wrote: »

No one is going to go out in force and protest. These new rules and the device licence only effects a small % of society. A sizeable portion of society pays a TV licence. The rest that don't pay a licence is probably broken up into those who legitimately don't have a TV and don't need to pay and those who do have a TV and don't pay. The device licence is trying to drag everyone into the net and its only small % of people. No one will march the streets over this.

Maybe i'm wrong but the impression i'm getting is the goverment are like " Hmm most people have smartphones and tablets now so we could make a killing on this, lets have an individual charge for everyone who owns a smartphone or tablet( in addition to your tv)" Bruton was asked that question and he couldn't answer it.

Mortelaro · 03-08-2019 11:01AM

toleratethis wrote: »

I'm unsure of the repercussions, but I think I might. I've no interest in going to US or Australia, am middle aged now I suppose, of good character, self employed so how will a trip to court, followed by a taxi ride to mountjoy (or where ever) to be processed and released a few hours later to find the nearest Citylink home impact me negatively?

What I object to is paying for a service I genuinely believe is ****e - something there's a fair bit of evidence in favour of on this thread and all over soc media. I'm forced to pay for wages of people who are woefully undertalented for the salaries they receive, a beige, bland, and boring TV schedule full of repeats of repeats. A public service broadcaster which fawns over the government of the day precisely because they're dependent on the license fee that government controls.

While we DO pay the TV license fee now, grudgingly, when it starts to apply to tablets, laptops, and is collected by a private company, they may sod off, I will not pay.

The one series I can recall that I thought was good was on TG4 called Bádóirí, and I don't even speak Irish!

Have a national vote by turning RTE into an opt in or pay per view service, both online and on radio & television. Then the people who want it, value it, will pay for it and the rest of us can spend that € fee as we wish.

Tbh,I'd say it will be simply levied on mobile phone companies who will pass it on in your top up or bill unless you produce a licence number registered in your name
No choice then and it frees up the courts

InTheShadows · 03-08-2019 11:02AM

gman2k wrote: »

I'm sick of this argument - "I don't even watch RTE, therefore why should I pay for it"
It's a public service, that benefits everybody directly and indirectly.
I don't use or never will use the new Children's hospital, but am happy to be living in a society that can have one.
That new road planned between Cork and Limerick- will probably never use it, but again, it's to better society.
RTE news and current affairs have contributed immeasurably to Irish society, the current hoohaw over Creches wouldn't be a national talking point without Primetime. Even those who don't watch RTE or didn't see the programme are now aware of the issue.
Are there too many overpaid presenters on RTE? Probably yes.
Do we need two orchestras? Probably not.
RTE punches well above it's weight considering for many people they compare it to the BBC who are probably the best TV station in the world.
Anybody who has travelled outside of home will attest to how crap TV quality is in other countries.
It is beyond obvious that a national broadcaster is good for society.
The simple solution is to just add the cost to the property tax, no need for private company involvement, no get out clauses, no chasing people through the courts for non payment.

It's not a public service broadcaster end of. A public service broadcaster should be impartial and not pay people 450k a year for a few hours a week work.

McMurphy · 03-08-2019 11:06AM

Hands up on this one, license payer here - but only because herself registered me and signed me up:o

I'd be lying if I said I never watch RTE at all, but I think you could honestly count the number of times I watch something on any of its channels on one hand throughout the year. GAA matches, toy show, the odd documentary and honestly that's it.

It would seem like a no brained to me, anyone paying the 160 per annum that wants to continue to fund it to watch RTE should be given that option by making them a subscription based service.

13.50 X 12 = 160. +/-

No need for government legislation or interventions, make it subscription based at - 15€ per month and those who want it will pay for it. They should also offer this overseas, prob a lot of expats might pick up on it if given the option?

Don't think I'd bother myself tbh, I wouldn't view it as value for money.

There. Solved.

Where/whom will I send the invoice to?

Mortelaro · 03-08-2019 11:11AM

InTheShadows wrote: »

It's not a public service broadcaster end of. A public service broadcaster should be impartial and not pay people 450k a year for a few hours a week work.

That's a done to death argument though,RTÉ have to pay the market rate for their 'stars',a bidding war with virgin media who'd love to have quite a few of them
We may not like that but it's the market
Darcy is there because he pulls in advertisers who won't care for opinions on this thread as long as enough contrary opinions tune in

Shefwedfan · 03-08-2019 11:15AM

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's a done to death argument though,RTÉ have to pay the market rate for their 'stars',a bidding war with virgin media who'd love to have quite a few of them
We may not like that but it's the market
Darcy is there because he pulls in advertisers who won't care for opinions on this thread as long as enough contrary opinions tune in

Virgin media would take who now???

Darcy was pulling in punters on the radio, not on the TV....nobody offered him TV at all when with Today FM....only RTE pulled him back with big wages and then slapped him on the TV.....would have spent better money investing in a young presentor

Oasis1974 · 03-08-2019 11:28AM

People could just about stomach the licence fee if it wasn't for paying certain cnuts a disgusting amount of money for doing **** all and talking **** for their pay cheques. I think there constant laughing is knowing there getting away with it.

James Brown · 03-08-2019 11:37AM

Like the man himself would be asking I'll wait until we see 'what's in it for uncle Denis?'.
Sadly when such things hit the news it's not long before theres an element of FG 'looking after their own'.
This is taking money from the tax payer for no good reason. Acceptable thievery IMO.

Irish produced content only and clear and open hiring process.

Mortelaro · 03-08-2019 11:46AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Virgin media would take who now???

Darcy was pulling in punters on the radio, not on the TV....nobody offered him TV at all when with Today FM....only RTE pulled him back with big wages and then slapped him on the TV.....would have spent better money investing in a young presentor

Are you privy to Darcys agents notes?
Of course he would have been talking to Virgin media
Any agent not doing that would be sacked
Of course theres an active market for a small number of people and that's why they're paid egregious amounts of money

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 12:02PM

gman2k wrote: »

I'm sick of this argument - "I don't even watch RTE, therefore why should I pay for it"

I wrote off my television set and disposed of it in compliance with the law specifically so I don't have to consume RTE services. I have saved almost €1600 since then that I have been able use to improve my families standard of living.

gman2k wrote: »

It's a public service, that benefits everybody directly and indirectly.

This is not an argument that supports RTE. Tesco and Lidl and others combined provide an essential public service.

gman2k wrote: »

I don't use or never will use the new Children's hospital, but am happy to be living in a society that can have one.

That new road planned between Cork and Limerick- will probably never use it, but again, it's to better society.

RTE is a multimedia company that broadcasts advertising, entertainment and news content. It is in no way comparable to childrens hospitals or infrastructure. If you want to make a comparison then compare it with other organisations that must compete with it for market share in this state and that provide similar services.

gman2k wrote: »

RTE news and current affairs have contributed immeasurably to Irish society, the current hoohaw over Creches wouldn't be a national talking point without Primetime. Even those who don't watch RTE or didn't see the programme are now aware of the issue.

Lowest common denominator programming tugging at peoples emotions, very good for ratings, generating outrage and advertising fees. Did it provide a one sided view designed to elicit maximum disgust and outrage or did it try to understand the problem and failings of trying to scale up and manage crèches. There are two sides to every story and it is easy to paint a villain for this piece, it is not so easy to provide balanced reporting in these cases and explain the failure and how to prevent it and should that not be a function of "public service" to understand both sides.

gman2k wrote: »

Are there too many overpaid presenters on RTE? Probably yes.

How do you know they are overpaid?

gman2k wrote: »

Do we need two orchestras? Probably not.

The orchestras can be moved to the department of arts heritage and the Gaeltacht

gman2k wrote: »

RTE punches well above it's weight considering for many people they compare it to the BBC who are probably the best TV station in the world.

Considering that then why would it not continue to provide these services if it were a subscription based services, you admit they have the talent.

gman2k wrote: »

Anybody who has travelled outside of home will attest to how crap TV quality is in other countries.

There is crap TV all over the place even on the much lauded BBC. There is also very good TV as attested by the modern habit of binge watching DVD series. I'm not sure if RTE still imports program concepts from a abroad and broadcasts their own half-arsed implementation or maybe their implementation is better than the original. With access to a global market place we can see the originals.

gman2k wrote: »

It is beyond obvious that a national broadcaster is good for society.

No it is not. No one explains why this is good for society.

gman2k wrote: »

The simple solution is to just add the cost to the property tax, no need for private company involvement, no get out clauses, no chasing people through the courts for non payment.

This is not a solution, RTE still has to get out the begging bowl and ask for as much as possible, their costs will keep rising and even of they get all the money today they will will be back tomorrow looking for more.

What you are proposing is that I work for a multimedia company whose services I do not consume at the expense of my family and personal well being.

GreenandRed · 03-08-2019 12:08PM

Spot on. We should at least have a choice how our €160 is distributed and nearly all of it currently going to RTE who also get state funding plus advertising revenue. The broadcasting model now is a zillion miles from the TV Licence started. As websites are also broadcast we should have an option to give funds to independents education, sports, music sites , vligs, podcasts because very few people are watching or listening to RTE on their phones, tablets and laptops.

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

You have not outlined WHY it is an essential service. You can switch RTE off today and live the remainder of your life without it. The service is therefore not necessary and it can be disposed of.

If you want to make an argument for RTE then argue for it in terms of value for money and quality of the entertainment and information it provides you and whether these services can be provided at a better price.

I will argue that as the TV tax is linked to none of these attributes that the current pricing structure is wrong and they are wasting resources as evidenced by the loss they are turning in. In fact the TV tax is probably distorting the market to the extend that some people are being over paid while others are underpaid and the consumers are being served an inferior product. It is quite possible that consumers who value RTEs product are prepared to pay more for a better service and a subscription model would enable RTE to provide that.

sonic85 · 03-08-2019 12:35PM

What an absolute joke this is. Ive never sent a email or complained about anything in the past but looks like I'll have to start now. This is just an almighty cash grab to boost the coffers of a company already spending obscene amounts of money on wages alone. At what point will the government stop sliding their hands into our pockets for the benefit of the few? At what point will people say enough is enough? Even in this thread there are plenty of people defending this. Unbelievable

GreenandRed · 03-08-2019 12:37PM

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

I wrote off my television set and disposed of it in compliance with the law specifically so I don't have to consume RTE services. I have saved almost €1600 since then that I have been able use to improve my families standard of living.

This is not an argument that supports RTE. Tesco and Lidl and others combined provide an essential public service.

RTE is a multimedia company that broadcasts advertising, entertainment and news content. It is in no way comparable to childrens hospitals or infrastructure. If you want to make a comparison then compare it with other organisations that must compete with it for market share in this state and that provide similar services.

Lowest common denominator programming tugging at peoples emotions, very good for ratings, generating outrage and advertising fees. Did it provide a one sided view designed to elicit maximum disgust and outrage or did it try to understand the problem and failings of trying to scale up and manage crèches. There are two sides to every story and it is easy to paint a villain for this piece, it is not so easy to provide balanced reporting in these cases and explain the failure and how to prevent it and should that not be a function of "public service" to understand both sides.

How do you know they are overpaid?

The orchestras can be moved to the department of arts heritage and the Gaeltacht

Considering that then why would it not continue to provide these services if it were a subscription based services, you admit they have the talent.

There is crap TV all over the place even on the much lauded BBC. There is also very good TV as attested by the modern habit of binge watching DVD series. I'm not sure if RTE still imports program concepts from a abroad and broadcasts their own half-arsed implementation or maybe their implementation is better than the original. With access to a global market place we can see the originals.

No it is not. No one explains why this is good for society.

This is not a solution, RTE still has to get out the begging bowl and ask for as much as possible, their costs will keep rising and even of they get all the money today they will will be back tomorrow looking for more.

What you are proposing is that I work for a multimedia company whose services I do not consume at the expense of my family and personal well being.

Plus they get advertising revenue on top of licence fees and state funding and can never turn a profit. Like other semi-state bodies RTE should be sold off and let a buyer retain any profitable parts and try and reach new markets with content that's also high quality online. If it's not done soon it won't be feasible as there will be so much competition as more and more viewers and listeners go away from TV and Radio and use alternatives online.

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 12:49PM

sonic85 wrote: »

What an absolute joke this is. Ive never sent a email or complained about anything in the past but looks like I'll have to start now. This is just an almighty cash grab to boost the coffers of a company already spending obscene amounts of money on wages alone. At what point will the government stop sliding their hands into our pockets for the benefit of the few? At what point will people say enough is enough? Even in this thread there are plenty of people defending this. Unbelievable

The government are fully aware of potential tax resistance aggravation. They will be trying to get more carbon taxes through in Octobers budget which will have an immediate impact on cost of living, if they do too much at once then they risk a backlash.

A technological solution does exist today for those with smartphones and laptops to pay for access to the RTE.IE domain, tiered subscriptions can be implemented without shifting the tax burden to non-consumers and also will allow RTE to extend coverage to an audience beyond Ireland.

Ave Sodalis · 03-08-2019 01:08PM

gman2k wrote:

I'm sick of this argument - "I don't even watch RTE, therefore why should I pay for it" It's a public service, that benefits everybody directly and indirectly. I don't use or never will use the new Children's hospital, but am happy to be living in a society that can have one. That new road planned between Cork and Limerick- will probably never use it, but again, it's to better society. RTE news and current affairs have contributed immeasurably to Irish society, the current hoohaw over Creches wouldn't be a national talking point without Primetime. Even those who don't watch RTE or didn't see the programme are now aware of the issue. Are there too many overpaid presenters on RTE? Probably yes. Do we need two orchestras? Probably not. RTE punches well above it's weight considering for many people they compare it to the BBC who are probably the best TV station in the world. Anybody who has travelled outside of home will attest to how crap TV quality is in other countries. It is beyond obvious that a national broadcaster is good for society. The simple solution is to just add the cost to the property tax, no need for private company involvement, no get out clauses, no chasing people through the courts for non payment.

You're joking, right? You're not seriously comparing RTE to a children's hospital, or a major road? I haven't owned a TV since I was a child. There's not a single way I've missed RTE.

Stop making excuses for substandard services. Just like other services, people would be a lot more comfortable paying a tax if it was worth the money we have to pay for it. It is not, and nowhere near it.

sonic85 · 03-08-2019 01:09PM

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

The government are fully aware of potential tax resistance aggravation. They will be trying to get more carbon taxes through in Octobers budget which will have an immediate impact on cost of living, if they do too much at once then they risk a backlash.

A technological solution does exist today for those with smartphones and laptops to pay for access to the RTE.IE domain, tiered subscriptions can be implemented without shifting the tax burden to non-consumers and also will allow RTE to extend coverage to an audience beyond Ireland.

+1. If you use it you pay - how is it so hard for the government to grasp this? I've never accessed RTE or any of their services through my phone or laptop but I'll be expected to pay through the nose for something I don't use to subsidise wasters like Tubridy D'Arcy Finucane etc? No way Jose.

My main problem is that RTE right now is a bottomless pit. The more money that gets thrown at it the more it will need because it will just disappear with no real improvement in the quality of the product. Once this is brought in its in forever and the only thing we can look forward to is the inevitable bill rise every couple of years or so. And don't mention the fact that it may be a private company overseeing all this and they will want to make a good profit. The whole thing is a clusterfcuk

InTheShadows · 03-08-2019 01:16PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's a done to death argument though,RTÉ have to pay the market rate for their 'stars',a bidding war with virgin media who'd love to have quite a few of them
We may not like that but it's the market
Darcy is there because he pulls in advertisers who won't care for opinions on this thread as long as enough contrary opinions tune in

I take your point but it's not a "market" if you are forced to pay for something you don't want and if you don't the joy of spending a night in Mountjoy lurks over your head. That's extortion plain and simple.

eagle eye · 03-08-2019 01:45PM

RTE should be a developer of talent. As soon as they are popular and can command big money you let them walk.

Gatling · 03-08-2019 02:05PM

Seems the rte boss has it all figured out

"A new household charge to replace the current €160 TV licence fee should be introduced through utility bills, RTÉ boss Dee Forbes has said.

Adding the charge on to a gas or electricity bill will be efficient and easy, Ms Forbes said.

“A system linked to utility firms collecting a household media charge” is a tried and trusted solution elsewhere, she said.

Her intervention comes as Communications Minister Richard Bruton said he cannot see how laptops and phones will be detected under the new law, leaving the prospect of a flat general household charge more likely"

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/add-new-broadcast-charge-onto-household-utility-bills-rt-chief-dee-forbes-38370891.html

The Caveman · 03-08-2019 02:06PM

What is next?

On the 1st January, every car owner in the country will receive 3 penalty points & a €300 fine for speeding.
You were not cought speeding, but there is a good chance during the year you will at-least speed 3 times?

Of all the websites in the world, because I can potentially access RTE on my phone, I need to pay 160 a year?

I can also potentially access illegal stuff, so should everybody with a phone get a criminal record?

RTE can F off, I will not pay this.

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 02:10PM

eagle eye wrote: »

RTE should be a developer of talent. As soon as they are popular and can command big money you let them walk.

I could I reckon future media talent is probably incubating on youtube and other platforms.

Examples: Real Engineering,, Computing Forever, Melanie Murphy, Gerard Burke and there are more content providers from Ireland active on that platform and others and expanding their knowledge of multimedia production.

How Soon Is Now · 03-08-2019 02:12PM

Look at what's on Rte 1 and 2 atm. That's the standard of what where getting for our TV licence. ****ing joke.

antodeco · 03-08-2019 02:13PM

I'm going to bring in a garden tax for my front garden. Everyone has to pay it, as anyone has access to it, even though you may never have any intention of visiting my house.

8-10 · 03-08-2019 02:20PM

Gatling wrote: »

Seems the rte boss has it all figured out

"A new household charge to replace the current €160 TV licence fee should be introduced through utility bills, RTÉ boss Dee Forbes has said.

Adding the charge on to a gas or electricity bill will be efficient and easy, Ms Forbes said.

“A system linked to utility firms collecting a household media charge” is a tried and trusted solution elsewhere, she said.

Her intervention comes as Communications Minister Richard Bruton said he cannot see how laptops and phones will be detected under the new law, leaving the prospect of a flat general household charge more likely"

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/add-new-broadcast-charge-onto-household-utility-bills-rt-chief-dee-forbes-38370891.html

That's a really good suggestion to be fair. Easiest and cheapest way to collect it

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 02:34PM

The Caveman wrote: »

What is next?

On the 1st January, every car owner in the country will receive 3 penalty points & a €300 fine for speeding.
You were not cought speeding, but there is a good chance during the year you will at-least speed 3 times?

Of all the websites in the world, because I can potentially access RTE on my phone, I need to pay 160 a year?

I can also potentially access illegal stuff, so should everybody with a phone get a criminal record?

RTE can F off, I will not pay this.

If you wish take the following steps.

1. Sign the petition at change.org to abolish the TV licence

http://chng.it/dfHfVySyw9

2. Contact all your local TDs and the Minister for Communication, Mr. Richard Bruton.

Be polite and courteous
Do not rant about salaries, or nepotism or political bias.
It helps if you are a registered voter.
Advise that access to the RTE internet domains can be restricted by RTE.
RTE can offer a tiered subscription service to internet users today that incorporates the legacy licence model.
A subscription model allows RTE to develop new services to better promote Irish culture at home and abroad.
A subscription model allows RTE to tap the Irish diaspora globally for the first time and keeps them in touch with the motherland.
A compulsory tax imposes hardship on households of limited means for instance by not consuming RTE services today a household can save over €1600 over a decade that can be put towards their childrens education, clothing or doctors bills.
RTE is a multimedia company that provides advertising, entertainment and news content. It is a non essential service and not fair that a person has to pay at the marginal tax rate for a service they do not need and is akin to slavery because there is no opt out.

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 02:46PM

8-10 wrote: »

That's a really good suggestion to be fair. Easiest and cheapest way to collect it

This is not a good suggestion and the cost of administration ultimately falls on the electricity consumer who must also bear the cost of higher carbon tax charges, coincidentally initiated by the same department of communications climate action and environment. And we wonder why the same minister wants to delay this controversial decision for 5 years.

It is not good because it is yet another stealth charge implemented by the Irish government on the taxpayer which the taxpayer cannot avoid and if you do not consume RTEs product you are subsidising someone else's entertainment while at the same time your opportunities to improve your standard of living are further reduced.

the_pen_turner · 03-08-2019 02:49PM

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

This is not a good suggestion and the cost of administration ultimately falls on the electricity consumer who must also bear the cost of higher carbon tax charges, coincidentally initiated by the same department of communications climate action and environment. And we wonder why the same minister wants to delay this controversial decision for 5 years.

It is not good because it is yet another stealth charge implemented by the Irish government on the taxpayer which the taxpayer cannot avoid and if you do not consume RTEs product you are subsidising someone else's entertainment while at the same time your opportunities to improve your standard of living are further reduced.

shur we may aswell stick the dog licence and gun licence in there two . lots of people dont have either but what does that matter.
disgrace of a proposition

makeorbrake · 03-08-2019 02:56PM

They want to keep the establishment wheels running. They've been propping up print media (the only thing left that keeps the doors open are fat advertising runs from public bodies) - to influence what they write. #RTEbias has served the very same purpose down through the years.

If it was genuinely a case of making people pay for what they use, they could easily put in place an encryption system. They wont do that as they know that the vast majority of people wouldn't pay a cent for it. Also, they want as many people exposed to it as they possibly can so that they can peddle their lies.

He talked about 'professional journalists'. This is the same sh1te that got thrown at Julian Assange recently. The world has changed - anyone can be a journalist - and there is little in the way of 'professionalism' in that everyone has their own inate bias (or company mandated bias).

I don't live in Ireland any longer and most likely won't be any time soon. However, if I was there I would resist this to the hilt. I hope the rest of you do.

MrMusician18 · 03-08-2019 03:06PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's a done to death argument though,RTÉ have to pay the market rate for their 'stars',a bidding war with virgin media who'd love to have quite a few of them
We may not like that but it's the market
Darcy is there because he pulls in advertisers who won't care for opinions on this thread as long as enough contrary opinions tune in

The market rate is not set by competitors though, it has been set inadvertently by RTE and they are essentially competing against themselves. Virgin and the others simply do not have the audience to pay RTE rates.

RTE however was extremely profligate during a period 2000-2010 and if you were smart and not like gaybo/Mike Murphy and invested everything in anything other than Irish property and bank shares you probably wouldn't need to work. The high salaries they pay now to the "stars" are essentially get out of bed money. Most would simply retire if the money wasn't so good.

The amount of money that a presenter pulls in in advertising revenue is not related to their salary, or shouldn't be. Only the amount a competitor is willing to pay.

TV licence collection privatised and replaced with device licence fee in 5 years

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