TV licence collection privatised and replaced with device licence fee in 5 years

Pa ElGrande

Since the form this new taxation will be implemented has not officially been communicated yet (one cabal is pushing for it to be added to utility bills such as electricity or internet service providers bill and another is pushing to add it to the property tax under the purview of the revenue commisioners). In my humble opinion we need to push them in another direction and provide the compelling reasons to do so.


If you wish to get them to abolish the license then you can try your luck at sign the petition at change.org to abolish the TV licence. It is unlikely this will gain mass attention as many people are favourably disposed to RTE thanks in part to the ceaseless propaganda about "Public Service broadcasting", people being used to comfortable old shoes (i.e. repeats of repeats) and the free oxygen of publicity that politicians crave. However if you don't ask you don't get and the did succeed in New Zealand back in 2000, however the tax was moved into general taxation.

http://chng.it/dfHfVySyw9


RTE must use a subscription model to remain relevant on internet platfoms

RTE are a multimedia company that delivers advertising, entertainment and news primarily aimed and an audience based in the Republic of Ireland. There is nothing special about them compared with other multimedia companies other that they exclusively target an Irish audience and have access to tax payer funds.

The orchestras must be transferred to the Department of arts heritage and the Gaeltacht immediately. It is only an accident of history that RTE ended up with the orchestras at the time they wanted to emulate the BBC model from the 1930s when they used the orchestra for light entertainment and needed them for live performances. The Orchestra is not a core competency for RTE and there has been nothing innovative from them since the death of Sean O'Riada in 1971. Since the National concert hall also falls under the remit of this department it is a better fit than RTE and it open the possibility that the orchestra can be hired out to other multimedia companies operating in Ireland.


The technology exists today so they can offer different packages to differentiate their service - so they can offer RTE bronze (news, weather, party political broadcasts and repeats) and RTE silver (Fair city and whatever on demand) or RTE gold (24 hour content whenever you want to watch it even have an option with no advertisments). Using this method they can improve the quality of their output and consumers don't need to waste their time and money.


You need to act now and contact all your local TDs and the Minister for Communication, Mr. Richard Bruton and let them know that you recommend that RTE move ASAP to a subscription model for internet based content and can incorporate the traditional licensing model to allow those with free to air services to access internet content produced by RTE.

• Be polite and courteous
• Do not rant about salaries, or nepotism or political bias or other pet peeves you have about RTE or the message about the subscription model is lost when you do this and the letter/email is filed under 'the usual sh1te'
• It helps if you are a registered voter, any good TD will check this before acting on a constituents behalf (or not)
• Advise that access to the RTE internet domains can be restricted by RTE and many media organisations already do this.
• RTE can offer a tiered subscription service to internet users today that incorporates the legacy licence model.
• A subscription model allows RTE to develop new services to better promote Irish culture in the internet age.
• A subscription model allows RTE to tap the Irish diaspora globally for the first time and keeps them in touch with the motherland.
• A compulsory tax imposes more hardship on households of limited means for instance by not consuming RTE services today a household can save over €1600 over a decade that can be put towards their childrens education, clothing or doctors bills.
• RTE is a multimedia company that provides advertising, entertainment and news content. It is a non essential service and not fair that a person who pays at say a 50% marginal tax rate for a service they do not need or want has to earn €320 in order to pay the existing €160 TV tax.
• For people who have complied with the existing law and either do not have a television or disposed of a set in order that they consciously don't have to consume RTE (and others) content a compulsory tax is akin to modern day slavery as there is no opt out.

Irishphotodesk

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Good idea if you really want to kill every electrical store in Ireland.....all you will do is create a huge black market for electrical good and not onky kill the license fee but the vat on all electrical items

Also you do realise people have to buy new to get a second hand market? You would have a second hand market with no vat but nobody buying new to supply it....

Annually, thousands of laptops, TVs, tablets and mobile phones are purchased and will continue to be purchased due to people with a pathological need to purchase the latest and greatest gadget advertised.

Will the need for these purchases stop because of an approx 20% increase ? - those that purchase new annually generally will continue to do so, there might be a drop off in sales, but it certainly won’t kill all electrical stores in Ireland.

Maybe I’m naive to believe that a tax on those that purchase new products annually (ie. Those who can afford it) would be sufficient.

Shefwedfan

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

but it certainly won’t kill all electrical stores in Ireland.

Yes it would.....


Talk to any electrical shop and they are already struggling due to import.

You are going to tax to pay for soemthing which is small but in doing that you will actually cost the government a fortune in lost tax from people going elsewhere.

Do you honestly expect people to go out to the shops and pay a huge extra tax while you sit back and wait for them to sell it second hand????

Spanish Eyes

I think they will add it to the Broadband/internet provider. That is the market they are targeting let's face it.

fritzelly

Idiotic idea to tax electrical goods - every electrical store in the country would close down overnight as everyone will buy from Amazon (most do already anyway due to the high prices here)
20% on top of the latest Samsung/iPhone is ludicrous beyond compare.

Pa ElGrande

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think they will add it to the Broadband/internet provider. That is the market they are targeting let's face it.

The internet access is the spin. The real agenda is to widen tax net beyond internet consumers and treat tax payers like an ATM. The director general of RTE (Dee Forbes) has called for the tax to be added to peoples and companies electricity bills, this goes well beyond an internet tax.

fritzelly

Cannot see any utility company or the likes of eir rolling over and collecting money for another company, it's not their job to support RTE - would hope so anyway

Loafing Oaf

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

The technology exists today so they can offer different packages to differentiate their service Using this method they can improve the quality of their output

No they wouldn't. This approach would decimate RTE's overall income and force them to drastically cut back arts, documentaries, drama, anything that doesn't make a buck.

Shefwedfan

THis is nothing more than a money grab.....RTE haven't called out the government for been completely useless so they arrive at the door looking for a hand out. This is what FG came up with

IF they came up with nothing then RTE might actually be a proper station and give the people a proper view of what is going on.....

RTE will always be a disaster, they are run by a shower of incompetent idiots for years.....everything is buying off mates, not off the right company. If a company flies in with a great solution, they present to RTE, RTE think it is a great idea but John down the road who went to school with XYZdoes a half assed version so they will go with that....

Wtf ?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

THis is nothing more than a money grab.....RTE haven't called out the government for been completely useless so they arrive at the door looking for a hand out. This is what FG came up with

IF they came up with nothing then RTE might actually be a proper station and give the people a proper view of what is going on.....

RTE will always be a disaster, they are run by a shower of incompetent idiots for years.....everything is buying off mates, not off the right company. If a company flies in with a great solution, they present to RTE, RTE think it is a great idea but John down the road who went to school with XYZdoes a half assed version so they will go with that....

Despite the idiots, You only want RTE to show what YOU Want, That's your bottom line really. Do you get outraged at social media often ? You have shown your true colours in your last post..... Always comes out...

Irishphotodesk

Wtf ? wrote: »

Despite the idiots, You only want RTE to show what YOU Want, That's your bottom line really. Do you get outraged at social media often ? You have shown your true colours in your last post..... Always comes out...

At no point did he/she say that.

Shefwedfan

Wtf ? wrote: »

Despite the idiots, You only want RTE to show what YOU Want, That's your bottom line really. Do you get outraged at social media often ? You have shown your true colours in your last post..... Always comes out...

That’s some jump

RTÉ news is the main source of news for certain sections of Ireland, they have been caught out multiple times telling a story which is government friendly

Who is outraged at social media? What exactly is incorrect in my post?

You like using capital? What they meant for

I think you have quoted me as wrong person

Wtf ?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That’s some jump

RTÉ news is the main source of news for certain sections of Ireland, they have been caught out multiple times telling a story which is government friendly

Who is outraged at social media? What exactly is incorrect in my post?

You like using capital? What they meant for

I think you have quoted me as wrong person

Bit late to deny something after you said it

Shefwedfan

Wtf ? wrote: »

Bit late to deny something after you said it

What am I denying?



What exactly am I have supposed to have said?

lsjmhar

I'm taking it from the thread that most people here have never paid a TV licence fee!!! Lol!!!

Shefwedfan

lsjmhar wrote: »

I'm taking it from the thread that most people here have never paid a TV licence fee!!! Lol!!!

I pay it every year, have done for many years. Starting to question that decision

Pa ElGrande

lsjmhar wrote: »

I'm taking it from the thread that most people here have never paid a TV licence fee!!! Lol!!!

I did pay the tax for several years and then I stopped a decade ago. Got rid of the TV and left RTE behind or so I thought . . . I did not expect that they would continue to want to tax my labour in return for no service.

tototoe

lsjmhar wrote: »

I'm taking it from the thread that most people here have never paid a TV licence fee!!! Lol!!!

I pay it. Begrudgingly but I pay it. But this latest effort of a charge is nonsense until there is some real reform of rte. If they really want to promote Irish content, then stop rte spending on imported shows that most people or anyone really can see free to air. Scale it back to one TV channel and 1 radio station and let them at it.

The idea we should provide more money for Dee Forbes and her bloated team of stars in Montrose is utter horse manure without some real reform.

2fm and rte 2 are just not needed in today's landscape. Nor are most of the digital stations.

Cut their cloth to measure, or feic off looking for more cash for the stars

Pa ElGrande

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

No they wouldn't. This approach would decimate RTE's overall income and force them to drastically cut back arts, documentaries, drama, anything that doesn't make a buck.

Arts, documentaries, drama are the staple of practically every large scale commercial television or radio operation. Do soap operas not constitute drama? Admittedly its been a while since I followed Dallas and I was never into Coronation Street. The A-Team now that was quality drama. How many artists get employed to create the illusions you see and hear on radio and television - what is that art? Are you telling me that commercial television cannot produce interesting infotainment series.


Or by arts, documentaries, drama do you mean filler to avoid dead air that is a poor imitation of someone else's work? RTE is not alone in producing intimation copies of someone else's original art, feature writers in the Irish print media do it as well. You will often see an idea appear in the large American or British publications and a few months later an Irish journalist will re-write it with Irish characters thrown in. How much content shown on RTE on a daily basis is simply a repeat or re-cut or old material simply put out to fill the time and avoid dead-air? How many advertisements are simply advertisements for another RTE feature just to fill the air time? How about filler like Oireachtas Report no doubt filed under the heading "public service broadcasting", cheap to produce and put on at a time when everyone has gone to bed - a tick in the box exercise really, you get more interaction and discussion of those topics on Boards.ie or Reddit which is better public service. Because RTE is one way traffic all RTE is doing wasting peoples time and money and in the process needlessly contributing to global warming by inefficiently consuming energy.


There must be content on RTE that people want watch or listen to, not every program is going to be a ratings winner that's why you price the packages appropriately to be able to carry that content that does not attract the big numbers. For the low ratings stuff with an internet subscription model you can interact with the people who do watch it and find out what they like and what can be done to improve the content.


Look what is happening on youtube today with live podcasts and superchat as an example of what could be? Why are RTE ceding this market to Alphabet (Googles parent company)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10w8YU5PYdE

fritzelly

Soarview could be a money spinner but no RTE want to charge a fortune for any channels wanting to go on it. TV3 are not interested in HD due to the cost, TG4 are not happy with the cost.

But hey they always have us suckers to keep giving them money

Pa ElGrande

Here is another item, they tried shaking other trees looking for money.



Sky and Virgin 'should pay RTE €30m to carry its TV channels'
February 5 2017


Pay-TV Operators Stand Firm against RTɒs Push to Introduce Retransmission Fee
05 Oct 2017



Sky and Virgin Media will drop RTÉ if required to pay
October 04, 2017

Mr Wheeldon said that Sky contributes hundreds of millions to the Irish exchequer in terms of corporation tax, Vat and employer PRSI as well as giving RTÉ prominence on its electronic programme guide, allowing it to derive the highest viewing figures and generate millions in advertising income.

“We estimate that around €32m of RTɒs advertising income is derived from viewing on the Sky platform. Beyond this, our current commercial agreement with RTÉ means we provide specific financial contributions and benefits in kind to RTÉ, in return for certain services,” he said.

Virgin Media Ireland chief executive Tony Hanway RTÉ said “a harsh light” needed to be shone on why RTÉ was pushing so hard for retransmission fees.

“Unfortunately, the answer lies in the fact that RTÉ mistakenly believes that this will produce a large financial windfall that can solve its budgetary challenges whilst avoiding hard decisions that would otherwise be required to manage its costs. We believe it is not in the interests of the public to throw money at the problem so as to shield RTÉ from these financial realities,” he said.

source

fritzelly

I wish they had got away with it, followed by Sky et al dropping the channels and then see how their viewership measures up. They would have likely gone bankrupt but I wouldn't have been surprised if they then pressed for a law making them show the channels such is their blinkered view of life outside 1960's Ireland
You don't see many aerials around the country so you can be sure most of RTE's viewers are from Sky et al.
They would have really shot themselves in the foot.

the_pen_turner

i would love to see a poper survey done on how people view rte and other stuff the licence fee pays towards and see how many people fit into the the bracket of watching for a few hours a week but would easily cut that out entirely if they could get out of paying for the licence.
i would guess that it would be a majority of people.

Pa ElGrande

Ten Pin wrote: »

Swing gate must be some can of worms to make FG drag up both water charges and TV licence in the middle of summer as a distraction tactic.

It's not "Swing gate", Its a matter of timing because now is decision time for the October budget changes. You see the same behaviour every year all the vested interest groups start astro-turfing the newspapers with their hard luck stories in an effort to "inform" the ministers of the cabinet. There will also be meetings in the background with the ministers.

Summer is normally low viewership time for many media organisations yet there have been two highly publicised "RTE investigates" in quick succession (raise profile to minister and public RTE is still relevant look at this fine example of "public service" broadcasting) and we know from the recent interview that RTE management and the Unions have been intensely lobbying the minister over the past few weeks. We already know the cabinet are under pressure from the EU and the green blob vested interests over carbon taxes and that is likely the priority for them this budget, to get that through without provoking "yellow vest" type protests. That's what forced the minister to make this "non announcement" to buy himself time. Pat Rabbitte will also have been coordinating with RTE in the background on this as well


RTE can also drag out Swing gate as well, if they get what they want it will immediately disappear from the roster.

Shefwedfan

Ten Pin wrote: »

Swing gate must be some can of worms to make FG drag up both water charges and TV licence in the middle of summer as a distraction tactic.

Swing gate has little to do with it but it does kill two birds with one stone.

This is standard every year, they release stuff like this prior to budget. It’s to gauge to see how big of a reaction they get

Remember last year it was diesel and different options for tax on fuel, then In end FG bottled it....

holodomor

This is an attempt to charge people for what people could potentially do. A person can potentially talk on the phone while driving a car but no one fines people for having their phones in the car while driving. no one has the right to punish people for what they could do. The signal of my neighbor's WIFI is 100 percent in my apartment but he has no rights to charge me for it. His signal in my apartment is not my problem I did not ask about it. It is his problem and he is solving it by having a password for access to his WIFI. If RTE wants to protect tv programs they have to encrypt it and sell personal passwords to everyone who wants to watch it. End of the story.

Should be a salary cap as a public organisation, I would think maybe 200k mark, I know it's a lot.
Should also be based on the audience gathered.
Persons should be paid a salary and not paid to a company in order to avoid tax - public company should not cater for it.
Can never understand how the top earner in rte receives so much that it's relatively close to Norton's salary but feel his is somewhat justified by having multiples of the audience of rtes top earner.
Also the MD should have her salary capped well below what she received for a organisation in so much debt.

SPDUB

fritzelly wrote: »

Soarview could be a money spinner but no RTE want to charge a fortune for any channels wanting to go on it. TV3 are not interested in HD due to the cost, TG4 are not happy with the cost.

But hey they always have us suckers to keep giving them money

Comreg set the fees charged by Saorview not RTE .

And Comreg set the fees because TV3 complained 2RN was overcharging which Comreg found wasn't true but to make sure there would be no future issues and also to create work for themselves Comreg set a transmission fee pricing plan

TV3 are not interested in HD mainly because they are tight wads ( they actually pay less for their 3 channels on Digital and have more coverage than they did for TV3 alone on Analogue )

Pa ElGrande

Chacha97 wrote: »

Should be a salary cap as a public organisation, I would think maybe 200k mark, I know it's a lot.
Should also be based on the audience gathered.
Persons should be paid a salary and not paid to a company in order to avoid tax - public company should not cater for it.
Can never understand how the top earner in rte receives so much that it's relatively close to Norton's salary but feel his is somewhat justified by having multiples of the audience of rtes top earner.
Also the MD should have her salary capped well below what she received for a organisation in so much debt.

Talk of salaries and other pet peeves about RTE masks the essential issue that RTE is trying to pursue a business model from another era at a time when more consumers are moving away from them. At present they maintain an audience that is tethered to them via taxation and force of habit.

If you were given a choice today of designing a subscription package for audio (radio) or audiovisual (television) multimedia services today what key factors would drive your decision?

Would you like to listen or watch the content at the time of your choosing? or would you rather be tied to a schedule laid down by a legacy brodcaster?

Would you like more interaction with that content provider? Would you like to give feedback on program content? Do you prefer active or passive engagement?


Today if content is broadcast on subjects that does not interest/stimulate you do you continue to listen/watch? Do you switch off and carry out other chores? Do you reach for the remote and check out the other 57 channels? Do you fall asleep? or do use your Smartphone or tablet and engage social media?


So you use your television for other purposes than watching RTE? e.g. looking at wedding videos, DVDs/blueray movies or play computer games? How much of your time using the TV is consumed by activities that do not involve RTE?

Do you use internet based services including RTE.IE? How much time do you give RTE compared to other services like Netflix or Youtube? Is the primary reason you use RTE.IE because of it's play back feature (i.e. watch content when you want?) Would you use RTE.IE if it was a subscription based service?

Do you feel bound to watch RTE because you have paid the tax?

If you had a free choice would you continue to subscribe to RTE?


If you did not have any radio, television or internet what you do with your time?

How do you value your time?

Is it right that you need to earn €320 and more per annum in order to pay the $160 TV tax?

People talk a lot about reform of RTE but really though it is you that needs to reform rather than RTE?

How would continuing to fund RTE's current business model lead to reform you have in mind?


Lots of questions but no easy answers.

holodomor

No one has rights to force people to pay for something they do not want.