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Age gap & children [title edited by mod]

2

Comments

  • #32
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    AulWan wrote: »
    And telling him the relationship is over now unless he changes his mind about having kids, is not browbeating him? Ok then.

    He must have known, when he, as a forty year old man, took up with a woman half his age, that this would very likely become an issue down the road. If he was that adamant about not having any more children then he should never have let this relationship go on as long as it has. JMHO.

    all that applies to th eop just as much. you can twist that around to blame the op as well saying that she should not have took up with someone twice her age and unlikely to want the same things she does


    there is no blame here. if there was then its shared evenly.
    the boyfriend has been open and honest . op can make her mind up if she values her relationship more than the potential for a child with someone else.
    you have to realise that a child might never happen for the op. the grass isnt always greener


    op all you can do is talk to him and see where ye both stand on this matter and see if you can move forward either trying for a child or resigned to the reality of no children.


  • #33
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    all that applies to th eop just as much. you can twist that around to blame the op as well saying that she should not have took up with someone twice her age and unlikely to want the same things she does

    there is no blame here. if there was then its shared evenly.
    .

    I don't agree on this point.

    The OP's partner had twenty more years of life experience then the OP did when they started the relationship. She was 20, barely an adult and he'd already lived a full life including a marriage and children.

    I think of the two of them, he should have known better.

    But I guess this doesn't help the OP now, 5 years later. There is a reason why the 7 years (plus or minus) rule is a good one to follow!


  • #34
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    ClaireMurphy27 wrote: »
    I've been in a relationship with my partner for almost five years, we are both happy in our relationship. There is a 21 year age gap. He has children and has been married. Lately I have had several talks with him regarding marriage and children, he tells me he has been there done that. He feels he is too old to be a father(he's 46). This is causing a issue for me as I'm a lot younger and want to have children myself. Do I walk away?


    I have seen couples break up over this dealbreaker before, even without the age gap (and in one case the person who didn't want kids actually went on to have them with someone else!)

    Only you can decide which you want more, a relationship with him or children.

    Unfortunately if he has decided he is not interested in starting another family with you then you will need to choose which you can live without, your partner or having children in the future.

    Luckily time is on your side.


  • #35
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Actually I think although it is sad, it is a healthy place to be in for this relationship.You are both being honest with each other, and much as it hurts, it is better to find this out now at 25 OP, than at an older age.

    If someone told me age 46 they would like me to start going back and having kids again, having got past the small child years, (never mind the biological impossibility of it-I am a woman), I would flat out refuse.And possibly cry.Not necessarily because I would be too old but also-just the absolute effort of small kids, how much they restrict your life, the sleep deprivation, all of it.If you really wanted to, then good for you, but it wouldn't be for me.But equally if i knew age 25 that I would never have kids because my partner didn't want more, I would have been a bit devastated.I don't think there is blame as such here on either side.He should have known better, maybe but equally, they both know where the other stands, which is healthy.

    I would go with another very serious conversation on this OP, and a decision where the relationship is going.


  • #36
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Yisroel Scarce Tinder wrote: »
    I don't think that's really fair to him. It's very common for 18 year olds to have kids but that doesn't mean that someone that age deciding that theyre too young to have children is an excuse.

    He's had and raised kids, he knows what it entails, he's the person best qualified to decide if he feels he's too old to start into the whole process again.

    They're both being honest about what they want to do, there's really not a bad guy here, it's just a sad situation.

    I'm not speaking from experience but I'd imagine browbeating someone into having a child to keep their relationship is running a pretty high risk of the relationship ending anyway, that's got to lead to resentment.

    At age 40 this guy was not living with and raising his kids. I don’t know why he wasn’t but what we do know is that instead he was having a relationship with a 20 year old girl instead and enjoying all the perks that come with that.
    The other parent of his children was no doubt NOT enjoying the same levels of freedom and leisure time.
    That fact alone tells me all I really need to know about this guys attitude to parenting and commitment to his obligations.
    He’s continued this relationship with this girl for 5 years in the full knowledge that sooner or later the marriage and baby’s topic would come up and he’s given her his answer and she will have to make a decision now because in 10 years time her biological clock will be sounding like Big Ben as he approaches 60.
    Why anyone would have any sympathy for a separated 40 year old father getting involved with a girl of 20 is beyond me.
    It just reeks of selfishness and egotism.
    A young girl finding a 40 year old attractive enough to enter into a long term relationship is very odd too, but that’s a whole other thread.


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  • #37
    sportsfan90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭sportsfan90


    splinter65 wrote: »
    At age 40 this guy was not living with and raising his kids. I don’t know why he wasn’t but what we do know is that instead he was having a relationship with a 20 year old girl instead and enjoying all the perks that come with that.
    The other parent of his children was no doubt NOT enjoying the same levels of freedom and leisure time.
    That fact alone tells me all I really need to know about this guys attitude to parenting and commitment to his obligations.
    He’s continued this relationship with this girl for 5 years in the full knowledge that sooner or later the marriage and baby’s topic would come up and he’s given her his answer and she will have to make a decision now because in 10 years time her biological clock will be sounding like Big Ben as he approaches 60.
    Why anyone would have any sympathy for a separated 40 year old father getting involved with a girl of 20 is beyond me.
    It just reeks of selfishness and egotism.
    A young girl finding a 40 year old attractive enough to enter into a long term relationship is very odd too, but that’s a whole other thread.

    Wow what a nasty comment. While a big age gap isn't for everybody and can of course bring problems, there's nothing to suggest they don't get on great as a couple. They just can't come to an agreement on this one issue, which unfortunately isn't one that can have a bit of compromise or meet in the middle on.

    As for your comments on the break-up of his marriage and raising of his kids, how can you not be aware of how family law treats fathers in this country? If his marriage didn't work out he probably wasn't allowed primary custody of his kids. I didn't see anything from the OP to suggest he was a feckless father who abandoned them when he got a new girlfriend.

    Would you question the attitude of his ex-wife if she has a new partner too? I think yours is the attitude that stinks, not OPs partner.


  • #38
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    shesty wrote: »
    If someone told me age 46 they would like me to start going back and having kids again, having got past the small child years, (never mind the biological impossibility of it-I am a woman), I would flat out refuse

    That would be your right, but it has to be said that it is not a "biological impossibility" for a woman to have a baby at 46.

    Before contraception was freely available women often had babies well into their forties and some even later than that. My mother had her last child at 44, my father was 57. My grandmother had her last child at 49.

    For god's sake, your life isn't over in your 40's, you can reasonably expect to live another 30-35 years, if you look after yourself.


  • #39
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    splinter65 wrote: »
    At age 40 this guy was not living with and raising his kids. I don’t know why he wasn’t but what we do know is that instead he was having a relationship with a 20 year old girl instead and enjoying all the perks that come with that.
    The other parent of his children was no doubt NOT enjoying the same levels of freedom and leisure time.
    That fact alone tells me all I really need to know about this guys attitude to parenting and commitment to his obligations.
    He’s continued this relationship with this girl for 5 years in the full knowledge that sooner or later the marriage and baby’s topic would come up and he’s given her his answer and she will have to make a decision now because in 10 years time her biological clock will be sounding like Big Ben as he approaches 60.
    Why anyone would have any sympathy for a separated 40 year old father getting involved with a girl of 20 is beyond me.
    It just reeks of selfishness and egotism.
    A young girl finding a 40 year old attractive enough to enter into a long term relationship is very odd too, but that’s a whole other thread.

    wow. what a terrible post
    there is literly nothing in this thread that back this up. we dont know why the boyfriend split up from his ex wife. maybe she cheated on him or abused him . we dont know.


  • #40
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    sportsfan90 wrote: »
    Wow what a nasty comment. While a big age gap isn't for everybody and can of course bring problems, there's nothing to suggest they don't get on great as a couple. They just can't come to an agreement on this one issue, which unfortunately isn't one that can have a bit of compromise or meet in the middle on.

    As for your comments on the break-up of his marriage and raising of his kids, how can you not be aware of how family law treats fathers in this country? If his marriage didn't work out he probably wasn't allowed primary custody of his kids. I didn't see anything from the OP to suggest he was a feckless father who abandoned them when he got a new girlfriend.

    Would you question the attitude of his ex-wife if she has a new partner too? I think yours is the attitude that stinks, not OPs partner.

    I’m not being nasty I’m being honest. Separated fathers in their 40s shouldn’t be anywhere near young girls just out of their teens.
    It’s not a fair and balanced relationship between equals and having a 21 year old daughter I wouldn’t be very happy with it even though she’s an independent person and it would be her choice.
    Why didn’t he look for a relationship with someone his own age and life experience instead of someone young enough to be his daughter? What is she getting from this romance?
    He’s more or less laying down the conditions now for the long term future of the relationship and if she doesn’t like it she has to walk away, probably with her heart broken and having missed out on the normal social life for a girl in her 20s while he sallies forth to find his next conquest.
    No. She can count herself lucky that’s she’s found this out at 25 instead of 35, move on and forget this aging lothario before she wastes any more of her time.


  • #41
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    AulWan wrote: »
    That would be your right, but it has to be said that it is not a "biological impossibility" for a woman to have a baby at 46.

    Before contraception was freely available women often had babies well into their forties and some even later than that. My mother had her last child at 44, my father was 57. My grandmother had her last child at 49.

    For god's sake, your life isn't over in your 40's, you can reasonably expect to live another 30-35 years, if you look after yourself.

    Both your mother and your grandmother had older children who helped them to take care of the small ones who were born towards the end. There is no comparison between having a first child at 40+ and a fifth or sixth or more child at the same age.
    Chalk and cheese.
    Far more relaxed having done it all +++ already and doting older brothers and sisters around fighting over who gets to feed the baby next.


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  • #42
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    wow. what a terrible post
    there is literly nothing in this thread that back this up. we dont know why the boyfriend split up from his ex wife. maybe she cheated on him or abused him . we dont know.

    We know he was separated from his children but had plenty of spare energy and time to give to dating and pursuing a girl young enough to be his daughter who he should have allowed to go and find someone her own age when he absolutely knew that the relationship was never going to include her having a child to him.


  • #43
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    splinter65 wrote: »
    We know he was separated from his children but had plenty of spare energy and time to give to dating and pursuing a girl young enough to be his daughter who he should have allowed to go and find someone her own age when he absolutely knew that the relationship was never going to include her having a child to him.

    we dont know how much time he spends with his kids or spent in the past.. he could be a great father. the kids could be adults and out in the world and independant.

    the op might have chased this man. we dont know.

    presumably this is the efirst time the op has mentioned the desire to have kids . he could genuinly have thought the op had no desire to have them or just never thought about it.

    the boyfriend (and OP) has done nothing wrong here


  • #44
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’m not being nasty I’m being honest. Separated fathers in their 40s shouldn’t be anywhere near young girls just out of their teens.
    It’s not a fair and balanced relationship between equals and having a 21 year old daughter I wouldn’t be very happy with it even though she’s an independent person and it would be her choice.
    Why didn’t he look for a relationship with someone his own age and life experience instead of someone young enough to be his daughter? What is she getting from this romance?
    He’s more or less laying down the conditions now for the long term future of the relationship and if she doesn’t like it she has to walk away, probably with her heart broken and having missed out on the normal social life for a girl in her 20s while he sallies forth to find his next conquest.
    No. She can count herself lucky that’s she’s found this out at 25 instead of 35, move on and forget this aging lothario before she wastes any more of her time.

    Making a lot of assumptions there (as usual) to fit with your own opinion of men and labelling him as a lothario, based on what??

    Anyway this is not about the age gap, its about a conflicted decision that comes up when two partners aren't on the same page as regards having children, regardless of age gap.


  • #45
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Both your mother and your grandmother had older children who helped them to take care of the small ones who were born towards the end. There is no comparison between having a first child at 40+ and a fifth or sixth or more child at the same age.
    Chalk and cheese.
    Far more relaxed having done it all +++ already and doting older brothers and sisters around fighting over who gets to feed the baby next.

    Thats a big assumption on your part! I was a teenager and the youngest before the younger sibling, (5th child) came along and I can tell you point blank I didn't lift a finger to help raise them and neither did my older siblings. I never so much as washed a bottle or changed a nappy.

    I feel sorry for any pregnant women in their forties reading this.


  • #46
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Emely Straight Savannah wrote: »
    Anyway this is not about the age gap, its about a conflicted decision that comes up when two partners aren't on the same page as regards having children, regardless of age gap.

    The age gap is relevant here because the op has said one of the reasons he has given her for not wanting more children is because of his age.


  • #47
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    AulWan wrote: »
    The age gap is relevant here because the op has said one of the reasons he has given her for not wanting more children is because of his age.

    The age gap is not really relevant, may be an excuse but this conflict happens with couples that are the same age as each other.

    The real issue is that one partner wants kids and the other doesn't.


  • #48
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Emely Straight Savannah wrote: »
    The age gap is not really relevant, may be an excuse but this conflict happens with couples that are the same age as each other.

    The real issue is that one partner wants kids and the other doesn't.

    We're not talking about other couples close in age, we're talking about one specific couple where age has been given as the reason for not wanting to have a child. That makes it relevant in this case.


  • #49
    woodchuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,411 ✭✭✭✭woodchuck


    Mod note:

    Posters are reminded to stay on topic. Please only post if you have advice to offer the OP.


  • #50
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Haven’t read the whole thread. I am a man in my forties who has a couple of kids, youngest is eight now. If I had to go back to babies and nappies now after going through it already I think I would crack up. My wife would say the same so it’s not a ‘man’ thing. It would be hell tbh.

    OP you have to decide if this is a dealbreaker for you. It seems your partners mind is made up on the issue and at least he is being honest about what he wants.


  • #51
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    ClaireMurphy27 wrote: »
    I've been in a relationship with my partner for almost five years, we are both happy in our relationship. There is a 21 year age gap. He has children and has been married. Lately I have had several talks with him regarding marriage and children, he tells me he has been there done that. He feels he is too old to be a father(he's 46). This is causing a issue for me as I'm a lot younger and want to have children myself. Do I walk away?
    This is too important an issue for you to concede. He has his kids and has gone through it all. Best go now or you will end up being de facto mother for his kids


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  • #52
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Edgware wrote: »
    This is too important an issue for you to concede. He has his kids and has gone through it all. Best go now or you will end up being de facto mother for his kids

    This really hits the nail on the head. One of them will likely end up resentful, OP if they can't have the family that they want or him if he feels under pressure to have another family.

    I know he said he's too old but I think what he probably means 'been there done that' (and has no desire to do it all again) rather than anything to do with his age.

    Not a good idea to try to change his mind either, that would be a disaster. So it will end up being the OP that has to sacrifice their needs if they want to continue the relationship.


  • #53
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    No doubt he'll also leave it up to her to make the final call and put an end to the relationship, so he can say it wasn't his decision to end it and he won't have to take any blame for that, either.


  • #54
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    Okay - a couple of things.

    Firstly, there are plenty of women in their early 20s, even 20 for that matter could see the appeal and attraction in a man at 41 who maybe owns his own home, his own car, has a good and stable career. Women can be leaps and bounds ahead of men in levels of maturity and I can remember well 20 year old men when I was a 20 year old woman - all of them still behaved like 14 year olds. Now, its possible that they dated for a bit before she discovered his age, or he discovered hers and they decided the spark was too great to ignore. Fine - both legal, consenting adults. Maybe she found the notion that he was happy to have kids and be married in the past a real attractive quality. Maybe she didn't know that until later. Maybe at 20 it wasn't something she was concerned with or thinking about. Maybe she even told him outright she didn't want either, but 5 years of falling in love and maturing further has changed her thoughts on it.

    Secondly - to the OP. The single biggest factor you need to take into account here is that this is an easy decision for your boyfriend to make. Having a baby at 46 may seem fine, but taking them to their first day of school at 51 years of age might not. Getting ready to watch them go to a teen disco when they are 60 could be pretty rough. And perhaps finally seeing them off to their first day of college when you're the ripe old age of 65 would be a relief. Assuming, of course, that they don't continue to live at home until they complete their degree, and for some time after it while they find their feet. You could find yourself only truly getting your life back at the age of 70, and depending on health and other factors, your life could very well be limited or even done at that point.
    If marriage and kids is something you want, it's time to end the relationship. Your boyfriend might not see the necessity, because he can change his mind and have a child and be married whenever he likes. You don't have that luxury. And the longer you stay with him, the more of those precious years tick by and you might find you've run out of time and become resentful as a result. There's no negotiating in these situations. One person has to go against what they want. I know two women personally who stayed in relationships with men who didn't want kids and one who didn't want marriage either. Both have discovered half a decade on that they're not going to get what they want, and for one it is almost definitely too late for her to achieve it regardless.


  • #55
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    AulWan wrote: »
    That would be your right, but it has to be said that it is not a "biological impossibility" for a woman to have a baby at 46.

    Before contraception was freely available women often had babies well into their forties and some even later than that. My mother had her last child at 44, my father was 57. My grandmother had her last child at 49.

    For god's sake, your life isn't over in your 40's, you can reasonably expect to live another 30-35 years, if you look after yourself.

    Em no....I hope to have my life back in my 40s.That's my point.Going back to the slog of small kids having done it all already would not be for me.

    <mod snip>


  • #56
    jlm29
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    <mod snip>

    OP, when do you want to have kids? Now? 5 years time? If you want 2 or 3, he could easily be 50 by then, and if he feels as though he’s too old, then he probably is- maybe not biologically, but emotionally. As above, 46 having a baby is one thing, but there’s a lot of years, and milestones between then and when a child is reared that he is aware of, and if it’s not for him, then you need to figure out what you want or can compromise on.


  • #57
    woodchuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,411 ✭✭✭✭woodchuck


    Mod note:

    Off topic posts deleted/snipped.

    Discussions about womens fertility at 40+ is irrelevant to the OP who is only in her 20s. Let's keep things on topic and helpful to the OP please.


  • #58
    Emme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    OP you will have to decide whether you want children or this relationship more. Bear in mind that your older partner seems adamant that he wants no more children and is not willing to take what you want into account. Lots of men in their 40s and even 50s have children with younger partners - it's an ego boost and validation of their virility for some. Was your partner around long in his previous relationship while his children were growing up? Why did his previous relationship finish? Perhaps he is not paternal in which case you might be better to walk and find someone who is.

    I know we are not supposed to discuss female fertility here but if you want children the sooner you walk the better. Time passes very quickly and if you definitely want children you want to give yourself the best possible chance to find somebody and start a family. Men tend to shy from single women in their 30s who want to settle and have a family so it's best to get the ball rolling while you are still in your 20s.


  • #59
    irishgirl19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭irishgirl19


    I had a friend break up with her ex for this very reason. He was 20 odd years older and had grown up kids. He didn't want any more.
    Its not something you can compromise on. I wouldn't waste any more time because he's unlikely to change his mind and you may resent him if you stay hoping that he will


  • #60
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    If you are certain that you want to have kids, then it'd be better to walk now. It will break your heart but what's the alternative? You could come to resent him for denying you the family you want.

    Leaving aside your relationship, have you thought about what sort of father he would be if he was to change his mind? He's 46 now so you can do the maths as to what age he'll be when the kids are 10, 15, 20. I've a friend whose father was in his late 40s when she was born. Even though she adored him (he's dead now) she grew up knowing that her father was an older man. He wasn't able to do the things other kids' dads could and so, she had to view things through the lens of "will dad be able for this"? As I've mentioned, he's dead now. She had to deal with him falling into ill-health and needing a lot of care when she was still only in her mid-twenties. I know that people can fall into ill-health at any time but the likelihood of it happening increases with age.

    Maybe you should be considering that big age gap yourself? You still have a lot of good years ahead of you while he'll be starting to slow down. He might be a youthful 46 now but in 10 years time he'll be 56 and you'll still only be in your 30s.


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  • #61
    Goldenlady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 342 ✭✭Goldenlady


    Hi Op,

    I was in your position a few years back, and it was the hardest decision I ever had to make but I walked away, completely and utterly in love with my partner at the time, but had to do the right thing for me!

    Fast forward to now (6 years later) I have a loving partner and a little 1 year old boy. My son is my world, he is just a bundle of joy! My partner and I wanted this baby and believe me, it can be hard on a relationship at times even when you both want it.

    I know when I left my last partner, I worried I may not meet someone, or may not have kids, but I had to do the right thing and give myself a chance. I had actually come to terms with not having kids when I met my current partner, but our unexpected pregnancy was the best thing to happen to me.

    only you can make the decision, just make it the right one for you xx


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