Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2019 12:38PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

Yeah you constantly hear people from Northern Ireland being described as 'Irish' by the British media or British sportscasters.

Well they are!
Leaving Irish nationalism aside, the UK =GB (England + Scotland + Wales) + NI
Britain = GB (England + Scotland + Wales)

Someone from GB (England + Scotland + Wales) is British.
Someone from NI is not British (as they're not from the three aformentioned countries).
Nor are they United Kingdom-ish.
They are Irish.

BonnieSituation · 31-07-2019 12:42PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

Yeah you constantly hear people from Northern Ireland being described as 'Irish' by the British media or British sportscasters.

You rarely do.

But, they are and always have been.

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 12:45PM

Just heard in the news on LBC UK is meeting Eu negotiators in Brussels today?
I’ll try catch who they sent next bulletin

robinph · 31-07-2019 12:46PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

rossie1977 wrote: »

Yeah you constantly hear people from Northern Ireland being described as 'Irish' by the British media or British sportscasters.

Well they are!
Leaving Irish nationalism aside, the UK =GB (England + Scotland + Wales) + NI
Britain = GB (England + Scotland + Wales)

Someone from GB (England + Scotland + Wales) is British.
Someone from NI is not British (as they're not from the three aformentioned countries).
Nor are they United Kingdom-ish.
They are Irish.

But you have the added confusion that the UK teams for various international sports is called Team GB.

Water John · 31-07-2019 12:52PM

US politicians from both sides quite clearly letting the UK know that if they mess with the GFA in any way, there is no chance of a trade deal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/31/brexit-mess-with-good-friday-and-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

Quin_Dub · 31-07-2019 12:57PM

Water John wrote: »

US politicians from both sides quite clearly letting the UK know that if they mess with the GFA in any way, there is no chance of a trade deal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/31/brexit-mess-with-good-friday-and-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

Absolutely - Certainly not in the next 18 months or so at least.

Even if Trump was to quickly bodge together some kind of a deal in the immediate aftermath of Brexit , the Democrats in the house will block it - Just as they continue to do with his "NAFTA in all but name" trade deal.

As other have pointed out , it remains to be seen if the Democrat opposition to a Brexit deal that impacts the GFA is genuine or not , but for as long as Trump is in the White house and they control the House or Senate there will be no deal signed with the UK if the WA isn't agreed to.

lawred2 · 31-07-2019 12:57PM

robinph wrote: »

But you have the added confusion that the UK teams for various international sports is called Team GB.

well yes but athletes in the North generally represent the IOC

brickster69 · 31-07-2019 01:06PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Just heard in the news on LBC UK is meeting Eu negotiators in Brussels today?
I’ll try catch who they sent next bulletin

Here you go

https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/frost-reportedly-to-reiterate-that-uk-is-leaving-on-31-october-during-20190731

Theanswers · 31-07-2019 01:13PM

Jim2007 wrote: »

No they will continue to ship from where ever suits them. However when you go to pay you will be redirected to amazon.de most likely as it is already setup to handle this since the beginning of this year and is available in English.

Amazon has been testing this since the beginning of the year here in Switzerland. If I go to a non Euro amazon site and place an order I will be redirected back to amazon.de for payment, where I can either switch the language to English or switch to another euro based site.

I sell on Amazon FBA throughout the UK, Europe and the USA from my UK company. What most people don't realise is that a huge amount of EU 'listings' are fulfilled from the UK with UK companies using Fulfilment by Amazon.

After Brexit, this will continue with additional taxes etc for non UK sales if fulfilled from the UK Fulfilment Centres. Irish customers will be at the biggest disadvantages due to electrical sockets, slower deliver times etc.

Business will go on however not as good as currently, but there is nothing I can do about it apart from redirect some additional stock to EU fulfilment centres (none in ROI) and therefore not bring that EU stock into the UK.

listermint · 31-07-2019 01:14PM

Theanswers wrote: »

I sell on Amazon FBA throughout the UK, Europe and the USA from my UK company. What most people don't realise is that a huge amount of EU 'listings' are fulfilled from the UK with UK companies using Fulfilment by Amazon.

After Brexit, this will continue with additional taxes etc for non UK sales if fulfilled from the UK Fulfilment Centres. Irish customers will be at the biggest disadvantages due to electrical sockets, slower deliver times etc.

Business will go on however not as good as currently, but there is nothing I can do about it apart from redirect some additional stock to EU fulfilment centres (none in ROI) and therefore not bring that EU stock into the UK.

Reality is simple,

irish people will stop using Amazon UK, lets see if Amazon changes tack.

Lackadaisical · 31-07-2019 01:21PM

Am I hearing things or did the DUP quote Boris Johnson as "never being neutral on the union" and against any form of border poll.

Is that not the end of the GFA? The whole basis of that was a neutrality by the two governments on the constitutional issues and parity of esteem.

That's a real departure and it's not a minor internal UK issue or even Scottish or Welsh devolution he's talking about here. It's a whole basis of the NI peace process.

Water John · 31-07-2019 01:23PM

Frost is just an advisor, no political ranking. Wonder who from the EU side will meet him?

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 01:24PM

Amazon have data centres larger than football fields all over Dublin.
Don’t think It would cost them all that much to relocate. If they aren’t working on it already.

VinLieger · 31-07-2019 01:27PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Amazon have data centres larger than football fields all over Dublin.
Don’t think It would cost them all that much to relocate. If they aren’t working on it already.

Theyve said before its not economically viable to setup a fulfillment centre in Ireland, were too small a market.

briany · 31-07-2019 01:31PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is not saying it is not possible for the UK to leave the EU, just not to do so without any impact on one party of another. Be that the GFA, Ireland, EU, NI or whatever. They nned to stick with the GFA because not do so is incredibly irresponsible to UK citizens living and working in NI.

This is something that seems to have totally bypassed the Brexiteers who even now are of the opinion that something should be done to fix the whole thing, but they don't seem to know what.

After 3 years we are back at the point we all started at, in a way Davis was right in terms of the fight of the summer. But instead of having the fight directly, the UK simply lied that they accepted the conditions and then spent 3 years complaining about the conditions.

But at the end of the day, none of this (problem with GFA) shou;d be a surprise to anyone and certainly not the UK government. That they have gone s far down a cul de sac is a problem of their making but instead of stopping and turning around they want the wall and houses at the end of the road torn down so they can continue on without having to stop.

Edit: I am pretty fed up with this line from the UK that Brexit is terribly hard and everyone should really help make it easier on them. As Brexiteers are so fond of telling everyone, people know what they were voting for, thus hey must have known the complications of the GFA and the NI. So why all this supposed angst that it is all so very difficult.

Even Johnson, only recently made PM, only policy seems to be that the EU need to sort out a solution. He can only say what he doesn't want, but has nothing to offer. Apparently this passes as leadership these days

Brexiteers on the mainland do not care about Northern Ireland. On other UK-based forums, where the arguments are less one-sided than here (understandably), and you have a fair few 'gammons' questioning whether the GFA is really a binding agreement. Here's one for you,

"I think people are imbuing the Good Friday Agreement with a lot more kudos than it deserves. For example..... The agreement acknowledged that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland wished to remain a part of the United Kingdom but that a substantial section of the people of Northern Ireland, and the majority of the people of the island of Ireland, wished to bring about a united Ireland...… that's about as open ended as you can get. The vague wording of some of the provisions, described as "constructive ambiguity", helped ensure acceptance of the agreement and served to postpone debate on some of the more contentious issues. Also, of course, don't forget that the DUP didn't sign the agreement.
It was an agreement that was overwhelmingly all about the cessation of hostilities, and since then, its assumed in people's minds an importance that isn't warranted by its content. Most certainly, it left the question of sovereignty completely open ended. It was an agreement that was supposed to be the starting point for more detailed discussion and agreement. This never happened, therefore it could be argued that The Good Friday Agreement, isn't an agreement at all, only a letter of intent, which has no legal standing. The maintenance of the accord is only by the wishes of successive governments. The tacit agreement is that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and will remain so until a majority of the people both of Northern Ireland and of the Republic of Ireland wish otherwise. Should that happen, then the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice. Although whether you can have a binding agreement within a letter of intent could provide lawyers with a stupendous income for a great many years.
To top it all, of course, and making a mockery of the "agreement", some elected MPs from Northern Ireland refuse to take their seats at Westminster as they refuse to recognise the British Governemnt ……… so much for the Good Friday AGREEMENT, eh??"

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 01:38PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Theyve said before its not economically viable to setup a fulfillment centre in Ireland, were too small a market.

Well I meant relocate here to replace fulfilment to distribution centres over there. They wouldn’t only be selling to us I don’t think.?

Last I heard they were testing drone delivery in one of their centers in cork. Bit bizarre.

VinLieger · 31-07-2019 01:42PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Well I meant relocate here to replace fulfilment to distribution centres over there. They wouldn’t only be selling to us I don’t think.?

Last I heard they were testing drone delivery in one of their centers in cork. Bit bizarre.

I know but they aren't gonna get rid UK fulfillment centres cus they still wanna sell within the UK, but again since we are such a small market they will likely move us to French or German fulfillment instead of setting up our own dedicated one for the same reasons they never have before.

Maybe in the case of a UI we might then be big enough.

Nody · 31-07-2019 01:43PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Well I meant relocate here to replace fulfilment to distribution centres over there. They wouldn’t only be selling to us I don’t think.?

Last I heard they were testing drone delivery in one of their centers in cork. Bit bizarre.

They are not going to set up a center in Ireland; they will use their existing once for Germany or France instead to ship out from instead to serve the Irish market. There are simply due to country size and geography no reason to have a dedicated Irish center; it would make more sense to open one in let's say Belgium if they were to open a new one.

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 01:47PM

Nody wrote: »

They are not going to set up a center in Ireland; they will use their existing once for Germany or France instead to ship out from instead most likely to serve the Irish market.

Not sure I’d want them here if the appalling pay and conditions workers have is to be believed.

First Up · 31-07-2019 01:47PM

I'm sure Amazon's UK base will continue but they might switch their coverage of Ireland to their base in Holland or Belgium. I know Japanese companies that are doing that.

Water John · 31-07-2019 01:48PM

A bit easier, trading in euro. Won't sweat if it takes a day or two longer.

First Up · 31-07-2019 01:51PM

Water John wrote:

A bit easier, trading in euro. Won't sweat if it takes a day or two longer.

Its more about items crossing customs frontiers. They already deal in multiple currencies.

maynooth_rules · 31-07-2019 01:52PM

darem93 wrote: »

Arlene still doesn't get it. Until you reach out and make sure every community in the North feels content, Northern Ireland as an entity will always be at risk. Before this whole Brexit fiasco, the Union was probably safer than it ever was. However her party pulled the rug under 20 years of peace and stability in hopes of ripping up the very thing that made the union with GB work for everyone. Now that the EU are trying to reach a compromise that recognises NI's special status while also guaranteeing its place in the UK, they're being the "belligerent" ones. Arlene can blame Brussels or Dublin all she wants, but the fact is that no one has done more damage to the Union than her and her party have.

And good ould Sammy continously saying little old Ireland has 'overplayed it's hand'. No Sammy, you just have not realised how fragile your bigoted hand is.

Kermit.de.frog · 31-07-2019 01:52PM

A despicable article by Bruce Arnold in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/31/bought-brussels-little-irelands-ridiculous-leaders-have-landed/

Didn't Haughey once call Arnold "a guest here"? Indeed.

Theanswers · 31-07-2019 02:00PM

listermint wrote: »

Reality is simple,

irish people will stop using Amazon UK, lets see if Amazon changes tack.

I'm sure they might. But again it doesn't solve the point I raised which is that Amazon UK is about 3.5 times the size of the nearest Amazon EU marketplace (Germany) of which the majority of Amazon Germanys products are sold by UK companies using UK Fulfillment Centers. The product choice of Amazon Germany, France, Italy and Spain will reduce after brexit and have increased prices.

This coupled with the fact Irish consumers will have longer delivery times and incorrect EU plug sockets.

I really see both traditional and online shopping in Ireland become extremely uncompetitive coupled with poor consumer choices if brexit goes ahead.

fash · 31-07-2019 02:02PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Not sure I’d want them here if the appalling pay and conditions workers have is to be believed.

There was an interesting article in Quillette from a worker who disagreed with the picture painted of bad pay and conditions. Well worth a read - the worker is a part-time journalist and the writing is good.
Edit: forgot the link

https://quillette.com/2019/07/19/the-problem-with-tourist-journalism/

Mr.Wemmick · 31-07-2019 02:03PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A despicable article by Bruce Arnold in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/31/bought-brussels-little-irelands-ridiculous-leaders-have-landed/

Didn't Haughey once call Arnold "a guest here"? Indeed.

Paywalled, unfortunately.

fash · 31-07-2019 02:04PM

First Up wrote: »

I'm sure Amazon's UK base will continue but they might switch their coverage of Ireland to their base in Holland or Belgium. I know Japanese companies that are doing that.

It could be a great use of the proposed free ports- correct?

Shelga · 31-07-2019 02:05PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A despicable article by Bruce Arnold in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/31/bought-brussels-little-irelands-ridiculous-leaders-have-landed/

Didn't Haughey once call Arnold "a guest here"? Indeed.

Article is behind a paywall but I got this far: "Whatever faults the British may have, they understand independence and freedom."

What a joke. Tell that to any countries of the empire that were colonised and brutalised by Britain.

This entire Brexit fiasco has prompted me to brush up on my history recently, actually. Britain really did some heinous and horrific damage in the world. You would think they would be ashamed of a lot of their history. Their entire mindset around Brexit, however, shows that the opposite is true.

They really think they are something special. Ireland better not budge an inch.

Sam Russell · 31-07-2019 02:10PM

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Paywalled, unfortunately.

Thank goodness it is paywalled. Anyone who refers to 'Little Old Ireland' and claims to be British but has lived here for sixty years - well, that says it all. Truly a guest in this country - but an unwelcome and ungrateful one.

I think that kind of trash is par for the course in the Daily Telegraph - the anti Irish propaganda is in full flow.

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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