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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Spring / Summer 2019 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭Monkeynut


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    ECM has now sided with the GFS on its 12z run and GFS has not changed. The period after Tuesday looks strikingly similar to the end of April following the warm Easter period (without a Storm Hannah) with a circulation of lows developing over or close to Ireland through the final week of July.
    Is this still the conclusion?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Monkeynut wrote: »
    Is this still the conclusion?

    Trend of the models is largely changeable, sunshine and showers most days, temperatures around average for the time of year in the high teens and low 20s (slightly above in the east). Not as bad as the models were showing when I last posted here. Most of any heavy rain is mainly focused over the UK for this weekend.

    Quite the northern blocking signal as the current omega high delivering this heatwave to parts of western Europe is set to migrate northwards through the coming days. This does not spell good news for August long-term if it's dry and warm weather you shall hunt (nor is it good news for Arctic sea ice).


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    Trend of the models is largely changeable, sunshine and showers most days, temperatures around average for the time of year in the high teens and low 20s (slightly above in the east). Not as bad as the models were showing when I last posted here. Most of any heavy rain is mainly focused over the UK for this weekend.

    Quite the northern blocking signal as the current omega high delivering this heatwave to parts of western Europe is set to migrate northwards through the coming days. This does not spell good news for August long-term if it's dry and warm weather you shall hunt (nor is it good news for Arctic sea ice).

    Guess that SSW from December finally made its way down to the troposphere :D

    Some of the Greenland charts we've had since the start of June would cause a forum-wide weathergasm if they were showing up in Winter!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Astounding -NAO on the way according to the latest models with sigma not seen since the Beast from the East 2018, even May-June’s -NAO wasn’t as anomalous as the models are showing for the start of August. Indicative of cold and wet conditions in summer generally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Carol25


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    Astounding -NAO on the way according to the latest models with sigma not seen since the Beast from the East 2018, even May-June’s -NAO wasn’t as anomalous as the models are showing for the start of August. Indicative of cold and wet conditions in summer generally.

    Is this a definite or say a 50% chance...just trying to clutch at a few straws re August! Took a look at some of the models earlier. FI seems to indicate low pressures coming in, but it has been saying it for a while now and it keeps getting pushed back.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    No heatwaves in the ECM 12Z. It is showing the LP that moves close to us the weekend eventually slowly moving in over us and bringing in cooler Northerly's .

    ECM currently showing temps in their high teens or there about to the end of the run.


    Who Knows very much FI at the moment.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Carol25 wrote: »
    Is this a definite or say a 50% chance...just trying to clutch at a few straws re August! Took a look at some of the models earlier. FI seems to indicate low pressures coming in, but it has been saying it for a while now and it keeps getting pushed back.

    It’s an almost definite chance, models are strongly certain of this blocking pattern - we’re currently in the developing -NAO. I said such a pattern is indicative of cold and wet conditions generally so not all the time.

    August 2010 had a significant -NAO and all the rain bearing systems tracked southward enough to affect southern UK rather than Ireland. It was a very sunny and dry month overall as a result of this despite the blocked pattern in the Arctic Circle.

    The rain bearing systems look to track much further northward here on the models though for 2019 and we’re talking starting this time next week besides some rain over the weekend. As this is the FI thread, take everything with a pinch of salt. Could end up with an August 2010 scenario or could end up with something much warmer as the unsettled pattern is backdated than forwarded so ya never know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Carol25


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    It’s an almost definite chance, models are strongly certain of this blocking pattern - we’re currently in the developing -NAO. I said such a pattern is indicative of cold and wet conditions generally so not all the time.

    August 2010 had a significant -NAO and all the rain bearing systems tracked southward enough to affect southern UK rather than Ireland. It was a very sunny and dry month overall as a result of this despite the blocked pattern in the Arctic Circle.

    The rain bearing systems look to track much further northward here on the models though for 2019 and we’re talking starting this time next week besides some rain over the weekend. As this is the FI thread, take everything with a pinch of salt. Could end up with an August 2010 scenario or could end up with something much warmer as the unsettled pattern is backdated than forwarded so ya never know.

    Thanks a mill, we can live in hope 🙂.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭compsys


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    It’s an almost definite chance, models are strongly certain of this blocking pattern - we’re currently in the developing -NAO. I said such a pattern is indicative of cold and wet conditions generally so not all the time.

    August 2010 had a significant -NAO and all the rain bearing systems tracked southward enough to affect southern UK rather than Ireland. It was a very sunny and dry month overall as a result of this despite the blocked pattern in the Arctic Circle.

    The rain bearing systems look to track much further northward here on the models though for 2019 and we’re talking starting this time next week besides some rain over the weekend. As this is the FI thread, take everything with a pinch of salt. Could end up with an August 2010 scenario or could end up with something much warmer as the unsettled pattern is backdated than forwarded so ya never know.

    Is it fair to say the East at least had an exceptional July given the NAO that was in place?

    A lot of people were saying July would be a repeat of the disaster that was June. But even though blocking, to my untrained eye, continued, the weather was OK in the end for the month.

    Maybe August will be a repeat?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    compsys wrote: »
    Is it fair to say the East at least had an exceptional July given the NAO that was in place?

    A lot of people were saying July would be a repeat of the disaster that was June. But even though blocking, to my untrained eye, continued, the weather was OK in the end for the month.

    Maybe August will be a repeat?
    Correct. The May/June -NAO continued up until the week just gone when we briefly went into a +NAO. This will be another -NAO month to go along with every month since April. Dry Mays with -NAO (which we had this year) aren't too unusual but summer months are especially July and August. Let's look at this from a pressure pattern perspective.

    The image below shows the 500mb height anomaly reanalysis for July 2019 up to the 27th as well as -NAO Julys and -NAO Augusts from the past. Can see quite the difference with -NAO Julys of the past and July 2019.

    In past -NAO Julys, a big anticyclone would lay dead center to the south of Greenland and over Iceland with a corresponding trough of below average undercutting in the North Atlantic Ocean. This would result in a southerly tracking jet stream bringing the weather systems away from their usual position which is around Iceland, to south of Ireland. However, in July 2019 whilst there has been a vast amount of blocking over the Arctic Circle, there has been an area of above average heights over us as well as much of western Europe. There is a low undercutting the high latitude blocking in the Atlantic but it is blocked from progressing eastwards by the ridge over us. Meanwhile, you can see a trough to the east of Europe which was associated with the unusually cold temperatures for those regions earlier in July and northerly winds brought down by the blocking in the Arctic. May had a similar setup to this July with ridging from our south keeping us settled though central and eastern Europe were unusually cold, again brought in by northerly winds as a result of the high latitude blocking.

    -NAO Augusts are very similar to the -NAO Julys chart, in fact almost identical.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 996 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    I dont know what a tracker mortgage is ....

    forgive me but what does NAO stand for


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    mitresize5 wrote: »
    I dont know what a tracker mortgage is ....

    forgive me but what does NAO stand for
    North Atlantic Oscillation. An index that reflects the pressure gradient over the North Atlantic Ocean based on two elements, the Icelandic Low and the Azores High.

    UK Met Office have a good page on it here for more information: https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/ens-mean/nao-description


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,880 ✭✭✭pauldry


    This weekend looks very wet and humid. Its a bank holiday after all. Warm and good sunshine Thursday and Friday of course.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    pauldry wrote: »
    This weekend looks very wet and humid. Its a bank holiday after all. Warm and good sunshine Thursday and Friday of course.

    Showerey or persistent rain Saturday an Sunday?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,716 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    the mid to long term outlook for August looks grim, very unsettled and a cooling trend. The models also looked quite poor for the second half of July but thankfully it didn't play out like that. Hopefully August isn't as poor as it is currently looking.

    After a few wamish and dry days, the ensembles show a very unsettled picture and temperatures gradually sliding away.

    ens_image.php?geoid=64981&var=201&run=6&date=2019-07-31&model=gfs&member=ENS&bw=1

    Low pressures sitting over us from early next week:

    GFSOPEU12_141_1.png

    Low pressure remains stuck over us up to mid month with cool conditions.
    GFSOPEU12_234_1.png

    At +384 hours low pressure still hanging around:
    GFSOPEU12_384_1.png


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Unfortunately the ECM over the last few runs has been trending LP's returning next weekend .

    NmJZicD.gif


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    ECM 12Z continues to show LP's cuing up coming in from the Atlantic from next weekend out till the end of the run.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Carol25


    ECM 12Z continues to show LP's cuing up coming in from the Atlantic from next weekend out till the end of the run.

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    We are so overdue a good August...looks like the wait will continue!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Carol25 wrote: »
    We are so overdue a good August...looks like the wait will continue!

    Oneric 3 put up a 10 day ECM Total Precipitaion chart and would have to think that it is looking quite wet especially if we see LP coming in from that direction at this time of the year.

    Jet powering up and looking Zonal and to the S or over us.

    DVYviio.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Long way out but tonight's ECM 12z has developed a vigorous area of low pressure over top of the UK & Ireland on Sunday 18 August with a minimum pressure of 975mb and cool northwesterly winds. Wouldn't be out of place in October or November one must say. GFS has a fairly deep low too for the same timeframe but its centre is smaller and much further northwards.

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Yea sryanbruen with the Zonal Jet fired up, the last few runs by the ECMWF and GFS have been showing a fairly deep low around next week end , different tracks each run. This run by the ECM showing a deepening depression as it exits the left side of the jet arrive on our shores just before it reaches it's lowest pressure. Looks very wet and windy for a time. It is still a long way out but good to get a starting point on where the models are with it.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    The LP next weekend at this stage is tracking well off the NW and not as deep as previous runs. Slow to move on and seems to spiral off the North sending in bands of rain and wind and looks to introduce a cooler N'wl and N'ly air flow the early days of next week turning cooler . The 552 Dam line is very far down S.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,118 ✭✭✭pad199207


    Either way it could be another write off


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,716 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS starting to trend much warmer for the final few days of August, possibly hinting at a warm start to September. This is a long way off outside the reliable timeframe but the fact that the schools are back around then, you can nearly bank on a warm and sunny first week back at school. Next week and beyond also looking a bit dryer than it has been recently.

    ens_image.php?geoid=64981&var=201&run=6&date=2019-08-13&model=gfs&member=ENS&bw=1

    warmer, dryer conditions from 23 August.

    GFSOPEU06_237_1.png

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    ECM also bringing in nice conditions from the 23rd

    ECMOPEU00_240_1.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    This anticyclone that is set to ridge up from the Azores starting Wednesday next week on current model runs is becoming more and more definitive in likelihood but remains a week away. Every model now seems to be running along the idea of this bringing a settled final week to August or at least a few days. This is coinciding with a weakening of the high latitude blocking over Greenland and perhaps a few days of the NAO going positive. The latter holds some questions though because around the time of the European heatwave in July, the NAO went weakly positive for a few days before going really negative again as the high that brought the heatwave retrogressed northwestwards to the high latitudes. Will we see a similar situation again with a brief period of +NAO then going back to -NAO after a few days along with the jet stream tracking southwards? I'm on the fence for my line of thinking right now for where it will go. Longevity of the high pressure is yet to be revealed.

    Easterly winds look like the most likely wind direction associated with this high. If that's the case, daytime temperatures should mainly get into the low 20s. The air mass does not look particularly warm but the sun should help to generate some warmth during the day. Nights could possibly be on the fairly chilly side though getting widely into the single figures.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,850 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Thats perfect TBH... warm but not boiling days and lovely and cool and night to sleep.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    I’m away but a brief look at models indicated to me that the ridge from the Azores has been brought a day forward to next Tuesday instead of Wednesday.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,824 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    HP certainly looks like it is trying to build next week , signs of it possibly establishing itself next week end but not without a fight maybe as looks to being put under a bit of pressure from a LP next Fri. GFS not as positive as the ECM wanting to form a cut off low meandering around Biscay and up to E of the UK over the course of a few days out to +300 but that is a long long way away. Will be interesting to see if the Azores HP builds and holds. Would be nice to finish out the summer with some settled warm weather.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,140 ✭✭✭highdef


    Looking at the charts posted above, I would say that the high centre would need to establish itself a little bit further east. I see to much Atlantic maritime influence in the charts above resulting in a fair bit of cloud, higher humidity and not particularly warm.....still, settled would be better than unsettled!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,513 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    highdef wrote: »
    Looking at the charts posted above, I would say that the high centre would need to establish itself a little bit further east. I see to much Atlantic maritime influence in the charts above resulting in a fair bit of cloud, higher humidity and not particularly warm.....still, settled would be better than unsettled!

    Definite downgrades now. Settled weather not lasting that long with a low pushing down from the northwest on 24th August and high further southwards.


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