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Electro osmosis damp proofing - does it work?

  • 29-07-2019 09:10PM
    #1
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭


    Does anyone have any experience with these? We have rising damp in the walls in the basement and considering this as a solution.


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Comments

  • #2
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Here's one guys opinion





  • #3
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    my3cents wrote: »
    Here's one guys opinion




    Saw those videos thanks. I've read other websites where people said they were great.


  • #4
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Baylor Angry Pumice wrote: »
    Saw those videos thanks. I've read other websites where people said they were great.

    People are stupid. It they have paid out good money then of course they think they are great its either that or admit they are stupid. If there wasn't a problem in the first place then any application of snake oil will fix it.


  • #5
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    my3cents wrote: »
    People are stupid. It they have paid out good money then of course they think they are great its either that or admit they are stupid. If there wasn't a problem in the first place then any application of snake oil will fix it.

    Is the snake oil a type of DPC membrane?


  • #6
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Baylor Angry Pumice wrote: »
    Is the snake oil a type of DPC membrane?

    Sorry snake oil :pac:


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  • #7
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,350 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Love Boards :P :eek: :p


  • #8
    Back Home
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 140 ✭✭Back Home


    Does Electro osmosis damp proofing work? NO.
    You do not have rising damp, you have a leak, or water ingress from outside, rising damp does not exist.


  • #9
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Back Home wrote: »
    Does Electro osmosis damp proofing work? NO.
    You do not have rising damp, you have a leak, or water ingress from outside, rising damp does not exist.

    Do you mean that there is no such thing as rising damp or that there is no rising damp in this instance?


  • #10
    Back Home
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 140 ✭✭Back Home


    Baylor Angry Pumice wrote: »
    Do you mean that there is no such thing as rising damp or that there is no rising damp in this instance?
    Your first question answers the second.


  • #11
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Baylor Angry Pumice wrote: »
    Do you mean that there is no such thing as rising damp or that there is no rising damp in this instance?

    There is no such thing as rising damp. There is damp that "arises" from lots of other causes but rarely if ever does damp climb up your walls from the surrounding ground and into your house.

    I'll give you an example. I have an outside water pipe that has a pin hole in it, I must get around to fixing (noticed a month ago now :o), its made the side wall of an old barn soaking wet. The barn also has no DPC yet apart from the area that the water actually hits the wall is bone dry. If rising damp existed why hasn't water wicked its way up the whole block work wall?


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  • #12
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/property-rising-damp-no-such-thing-1295773.html.


  • #13
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Back Home wrote: »
    Your first question answers the second.

    Understand that water cannot rise by itself but I have a basement below ground level approx 7m x 6m, terraced, on a main road. The basements on either side have been filled in and there is no water services in the basement but the walls are really damp over a metre high all round. There is a concrete floor approx 40cm thick and there is no pooling water on the ground which is in better condition than the walls.

    The water is coming from somewhere but can it be the case that there is water in the earth that will always penetrate through the walls as I can't figure out where the water is coming from?


  • #14
    Back Home
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 140 ✭✭Back Home


    Tough one to call without a visual, but all problems can be solved if you throw enough money at it. You need expert help, but not damp proof companies.


  • #15
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Baylor Angry Pumice wrote: »
    Understand that water cannot rise by itself but I have a basement below ground level approx 7m x 6m, terraced, on a main road. The basements on either side have been filled in and there is no water services in the basement but the walls are really damp over a metre high all round. There is a concrete floor approx 40cm thick and there is no pooling water on the ground which is in better condition than the walls.

    The water is coming from somewhere but can it be the case that there is water in the earth that will always penetrate through the walls as I can't figure out where the water is coming from?

    That isn't rising damp is it. Even if it worked electro osmosis isn't going to help you with that.

    It may be a hint if the neighbors have filled in their basements.

    Better ventilation that ventilates all the way down to the floor or a heat recovery system that removes damp air and replaces it with warmer air from around the house might also help.


  • #16
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    my3cents wrote: »
    That isn't rising damp is it. Even if it worked electro osmosis isn't going to help you with that.

    It may be a hint if the neighbors have filled in their basements.

    Better ventilation that ventilates all the way down to the floor or a heat recovery system that removes damp air and replaces it with warmer air from around the house might also help.

    So what't the jaysus solution. Would a concrete screed with underground heating help?

    The walls need to be re-plastered and I'm opening up the floor at ground level to allow light down into the basement almost like a mezzanine. So that in itself will imporve the ventialition significanlty but will the walls not always be damp because the basement is below ground level and although the water will always be there would a damp course of tanking the walls at least keep it at bay?


  • #17
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Baylor Angry Pumice wrote: »
    So what't the jaysus solution. Would a concrete screed with underground heating help?

    If they have any covering on them then clear the walls off first. That will let you know exactly how bad the problem is. You still need to increase ventilation one way or another.

    Heating might help but don't jump to any solution until you have ventilated the area well for at least a month.

    If your problem doesn't get better with ventilation then see what a dehumidifier will do? Thats not a long term solution but if the walls dry up as a result then the moisture isn't coming through the walls.

    Concrete is exactly the wrong material to be using. You need a breathable finish like lime plaster with lime paint as a finish if it must be finished. Heat is never going to hurt but may just be a waste of money if you don't get to the root cause.

    The point is these systems are sold to people like you who don't really know what is causing the problem and just want a solution.


  • #18
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    my3cents wrote: »
    If they have any covering on them then clear the walls off first. That will let you know exactly how bad the problem is. You still need to increase ventilation one way or another.

    Heating might help but don't jump to any solution until you have ventilated the area well for at least a month.

    If your problem doesn't get better with ventilation then see what a dehumidifier will do? Thats not a long term solution but if the walls dry up as a result then the moisture isn't coming through the walls.

    Concrete is exactly the wrong material to be using. You need a breathable finish like lime plaster with lime paint as a finish if it must be finished. Heat is never going to hurt but may just be a waste of money if you don't get to the root cause.

    The point is these systems are sold to people like you who don't really know what is causing the problem and just want a solution.

    Understood which is why I was sceptical of the osmosis in the first place. The idea of magnetic fields repelling water didn't seem plausible.

    I have this dehumidifier but thought it might be a bit small for the area?

    There's actually no treatment on the walls just block and brick in some places but the floor is a 40cm concrete floor, would a screed of lime plaster on the floor be suitable for walking on?


  • #19
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Back Home wrote: »
    Tough one to call without a visual, but all problems can be solved if you throw enough money at it. You need expert help, but not damp proof companies.

    Who are the experts then? Spoke to an architect and they suggested a damp proofing company.


  • #20
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Baylor Angry Pumice wrote: »
    Who are the experts then? Spoke to an architect and they suggested a damp proofing company.

    You are there on the spot and if not living there yet should be able to visit regularly. So you are the one who needs can see how the problem exists and how small changes affect it. All a damp proofing company will do is come in and diagnose damp and recommend their solution.

    Take a look at the Peter Ward videos I linked too understand what damp is.

    This is a good case of a cellar...



    and



    read the replies for some extra info


  • #21
    Stoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    I treated a rising damp issue in my house a few years ago.

    I documented it here, titled Damp Proofing

    The room is only about 400mm lower than my neighbour.

    But I certainly had rising damp from their driveway.

    I stripped all the finish off the wall, fixed a couple of issues in the wall (solid brick used once)

    I treated the rising damp at a level

    I used tanking plaster and SBR after that

    I stuck the plaster boards on with foam.

    However yours is a basement

    I've seen these treated in the uk, it can be very expensive, plastic membrane, collection traps all around, sump pumps to extract the water.

    A basement probably doesn't really classify as a rising damp issues. Mine was as I had wet wall below dry wall. With rising damp you usually treat the wall about 200 or 300 mm above the source of dampness, the chemicals seal the wall and form a barrier against the rising moisture

    Maybe membrane and tanking would work, but with some basements you just have to collect and pump out the water.

    Look up the old post anyway and see what you think.


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  • #22
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Stoner wrote: »
    I treated a rising damp issue in my house a few years ago.

    I documented it here, titled Damp Proofing

    The room is only about 400mm lower than my neighbour.

    But I certainly had rising damp from their driveway.

    I stripped all the finish off the wall, fixed a couple of issues in the wall (solid brick used once)

    I treated the rising damp at a level

    I used tanking plaster and SBR after that

    I stuck the plaster boards on with foam.

    However yours is a basement

    I've seen these treated in the uk, it can be very expensive, plastic membrane, collection traps all around, sump pumps to extract the water.

    A basement probably doesn't really classify as a rising damp issues. Mine was as I had wet wall below dry wall. With rising damp you usually treat the wall about 200 or 300 mm above the source of dampness, the chemicals seal the wall and form a barrier against the rising moisture

    Maybe membrane and tanking would work, but with some basements you just have to collect and pump out the water.

    Look up the old post anyway and see what you think.

    There's no such thing as rising damp.


  • #23
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    my3cents wrote: »
    You are there on the spot and if not living there yet should be able to visit regularly. So you are the one who needs can see how the problem exists and how small changes affect it. All a damp proofing company will do is come in and diagnose damp and recommend their solution.

    Those videos are very useful thanks. The more I look at these, the more I think it has to do with ventilation. Just to clarify, if lime plaster is used on the walls, what do you use on the floor?


  • #24
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Baylor Angry Pumice wrote: »
    Those videos are very useful thanks. The more I look at these, the more I think it has to do with ventilation. Just to clarify, if lime plaster is used on the walls, what do you use on the floor?

    The floor it what it is, if you want to go digging it up thats up to you but I think you said it was dry so I'd leave it as it is.

    I'm not sure if underfloor heating would be a good idea worth researching but it might help air flow with hotter moist air raising to the level above.


  • #25
    Stoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    A heat recovery ventilation system is your only man here.

    It can be expensive but you'd get great value form it in the rest of the house.

    Friend put one into his house that had a mould issue about 2 years ago, a lindab unit, sorted it out straight away.


  • #26
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Stoner wrote: »
    A heat recovery ventilation system is your only man here.

    It can be expensive but you'd get great value form it in the rest of the house.

    Frowns put inw into his house that had a mould issue about 2 years ago, a lindab unit, sorted it out straight away.

    I think thats part of the solution provided warmer dry air is pumped back in low down into the cellar to create good air movement.

    Could be used along with under floor heating?

    But before the OP decides on anything he has to be happy that he has found out what the root cause of the issue is and can understand how to fix it.

    I wouldn't be happy for someone just to turn up with a moisture meter and say its damp and sell a "solution".


  • #27
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Stoner wrote: »
    A heat recovery ventilation system is your only man here.

    It can be expensive but you'd get great value form it in the rest of the house.

    Frowns put inw into his house that had a mould issue about 2 years ago, a lindab unit, sorted it out straight away.

    +1
    Rolls Royce addition, for rising damp, would be calistherm, or similar.

    Edit: forgot there is no such thing as rising damp, moon landing, wet dxxxxs, sexual orientation other than male and female: only a creationist raison d'être etc:(

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #28
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Stoner wrote: »
    A heat recovery ventilation system is your only man here.

    It can be expensive but you'd get great value form it in the rest of the house.

    Frowns put inw into his house that had a mould issue about 2 years ago, a lindab unit, sorted it out straight away.

    What would be considered expensive - ballpark figures?


  • #29
    Stoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    I'd say about 2K for the kit.

    Two big holes in the walls and lots of ducting


  • #30
    farmerval
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 719 ✭✭✭farmerval


    When I was in college doing Quantity Surveying we were told damp can rise to I can't remember for sure think it was 900mm or maybe 1200mm
    Was explained to us that the reason why Victorian houses and great country houses had kitchens in the basements, relatively extremely expensive wall paper and wall hangings had to be more than 1200mm above ground level. We have all seen such houses with the six-eight steps up to the front door.

    Big issues around damp in general is temperature differentials. If there is no differential then there's no reason for the damp to travel through the wall.

    Damp can rise definitely, but whether that's your problem is another issue. What is the surrounding ground around your house like?


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  • #31
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Just to clarify. This is a commercial retail unit ground floor and basement. It’s not a large unit (basement is approx 5m x 7m) but have been approached by a charity who want to rent the basement on a pro bono basis. We’ll be cutting a large hole in the ground floor to allow light into the basement level (like a mezzanine) but because the charity is paying for the costs we want to keep them to a minimum which is why I’m reluctant to rush into a damp proofing solution but at the same time because people will be working there I want to make sure it’s done properly.


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