Lady can't have her hairy balls waxed [mod notes/warnings in post #1]

Jimmy Garlic

Glass fused light wrote: »

Ok so this appears to be a legimate website which describes 2 spirited.
And I am confused I understood it to be a transgender specific word but it also appears to cover homosexuality?


https://lgbtqhealth.ca/community/two-spirit.php

Canada is a festering cesspool for the generation of this kind of nonsense.

suicide_circus

Dante7 wrote: »

Wokeus Dei

LOL perfect

Backstreet Moyes

I bring my kid up to be honest and truthful

If my kid ever asks me why is a man in the women's changing area I am not going to lie and say that is a women because it might hurt someones feelings

A person can identify themselves as whatever they want I have no problem with that but don't expect other people to call you something that you are not

I mean it is just lunacy when you think of it expecting people to call you something that you cannot be if your born a man you are a man no matter what you change or say

ingalway

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7290219/Trans-woman-claims-salons-discriminated-against-accused-child-sexual-exploitation.html

skybox2014

MrFresh wrote: »

Under 5 (2) (c) of the 2000 Act.

5.—(1) A person shall not discriminate in disposing of goods to the public generally or a section of the public or in providing a service, whether the disposal or provision is for consideration or otherwise and whether the service provided can be availed of only by a section of the public.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of—
(c) differences in the treatment of persons on the gender ground in relation to services of an aesthetic, cosmetic or similar nature, where the services require physical contact between the service provider and the recipient,

So the above seems to say you can treat people differently on tha basis of gender for aesthetic, cosmetic or similar services. The Barber's solicitor argued that point, according to the judgement from WRC. But ultimatly it didn't stand and the case was ruled on the basis of gender

on the balance of the evidence presented and taking into account the cases referred to I conclude that the complainant was treated differently, because he was transgender when he was refused a haircut by the respondent. This amounts to discrimination on the grounds of gender.

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/cases/2018/july/adj-00011948.html

There is no mention the person had a gender recognition cert, they simply asserted they are male and weren't treated as a male.

Also, the Barber claimed they weren't qualified to cut a woman's hair, but that claim was rejected, because the respondant is considered a transgender man, not a woman under Irish law.

So that is self ID in action in Ireland at the level of getting a haircut on the head. I don't see how the ruling could be any different for a trans woman seeking a genital waxing service in a woman-only salon. Under the above ruling a trans woman would be eligible for female-only services because they a trans woamn, not a man. No proof (by means of a gender cert or cosmetic surgery or anything else) seems to be required, just simple assertion.

I would have thought this goes beyond the reach of the Gender Recognition Act - why bother having the act if self declarations like above all that is required?

skybox2014

Canadian Megan Murphy has a 30 minute interview with Jay Cameron, the lawyer representing three of the estheticians in cases against Yaniv. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZjEzNC_32s

One of the estheticians went to 26 different lawyers before she could find someone to take the case - fear of Yaniv and the trans lobby in Canada being a regular excuse.

GoingLikeElsie was tweeting about that final case last night but I haven't read through the notes yet.
https://twitter.com/goinglikeelsie

And Lindsay Shepherd is back from what was supposed to be permenant exile (for calling Yaniv a “ugly fat man” which of course, was unkind and unhelpful, but not a breach of Twitter rules.) Twitter feeling the heat?

Dante7

Dante7 wrote: »

No. Just, no. I will not be compelled to use the preferred pronouns of a paedophilic predator. You can take your social justice blasphemy rules and stick them where the sun don't shine. You won't dictate to me that I have to use words that abrogate scientific facts. What next? Will we have to use language that accommodates the feelings of anti-vaxxers and flat earthers? Fcuk that.

Jonathon Yaniv is a man. If you try to force me to call him a woman, you can shove your website.

This is why the suicide rate is so high amongst trans people.

Will I Am Not

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is why the suicide rate is so high amongst trans people.

Because a random person online misgendered a random person the other side of the world?

Glass fused light

Deleted User wrote: »

Dante7 wrote: »

No. Just, no. I will not be compelled to use the preferred pronouns of a paedophilic predator. You can take your social justice blasphemy rules and stick them where the sun don't shine. You won't dictate to me that I have to use words that abrogate scientific facts. What next? Will we have to use language that accommodates the feelings of anti-vaxxers and flat earthers? Fcuk that.

Jonathon Yaniv is a man. If you try to force me to call him a woman, you can shove your website.

This is why the suicide rate is so high amongst trans people.

Proof of numbers please
And source of data

Thanks

Will I Am Not

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Because a random person online misgendered a random person the other side of the world?

No, the stoic nonacceptance of the ideology that gender and sex can be different things. Adamantly believing that science backs this position. Equating it to flat earthers and anti-vaxxers. Gay people had a hard time of it for a long time believing they were "wrong" and "unnatural". When are we going to stop saying the same thing to trans people. Not soon enough by the looks of things. There's not doubt that this Jessica Yaniv is a complete clown but I think compassion and acceptance is badly needed for the average person who feels they were born into the wrong body.

Glass fused light

Glass fused light wrote: »

Proof of numbers please
And source of data

Thanks

Take your pick

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5905855/

https://www.hrc.org/blog/new-study-reveals-shocking-rates-of-attempted-suicide-among-trans-adolescen

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/28/trans-young-people-suicide-support-mental-health

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-transgender-teen-suicide/trans-teens-much-more-likely-to-attempt-suicide-idUSKCN1LS39K

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/denying-transgender-identity-has-serious-impact-on-mental-health-891393.html

https://www.suicideinfo.ca/resource/transgender-people-suicide/

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/11/health/transgender-teen-attempted-suicide-study/index.html

Wibbs

Glass fused light wrote: »

Ok so this appears to be a legimate website which describes 2 spirited.
And I am confused I understood it to be a transgender specific word but it also appears to cover homosexuality?


https://lgbtqhealth.ca/community/two-spirit.php

Reading the web address and it doesn't surprise me. Canada on the government and media level seems to hoover up every "progressive" fashion that wanders into view, so them getting into the 50 or whatever it is genders thing is hardly a shock.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

MrFresh wrote: »

If that's the case, considering most child molesters are known by the victim, should you not be more concerned about your own family and friends? In the interest of protecting the children of course.

Now that is a genuine false dilemma.

Glass fused light

Deleted User wrote: »

Take your pick

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5905855/

It's a little known fact but dead people don't use computers.

Glass fused light

skybox2014 wrote: »

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/cases/2018/july/adj-00011948.html

Thanks i had been looking for that

Wibbs

Glass fused light wrote: »

Proof of numbers please
And source of data

Thanks

That any marginalised group have higher rates of the above is hardly a surprise. Gay people also have higher rates. There is pretty clear and solid data that trans individuals have much higher rates of self harm, addiction, depression, anxiety all the way up to suicide. These stats remain much higher than background even after medical transition. Higher among male to female than female to male. Slightly better social supports maybe?

Glass fused light

skybox2014 wrote: »

And Lindsay Shepherd is back from what was supposed to be permenant exile (for calling Yaniv a “ugly fat man” which of course, was unkind and unhelpful, but not a breach of Twitter rules.) Twitter feeling the heat?

Twitter is getting its ass kicked with people all over misgendering.
They will have to hire extra staff to process the reports
People not blocked are creating lists of who and why they are blocked
And the founders twitter handles are being asked about why she remained while her female opponents (eg Lindsay Shepherd) were kicked off

Glass fused light

Wibbs wrote: »

That any marginalised group have higher rates of the above is hardly a surprise. Gay people also have higher rates. There is pretty clear and solid data that trans individuals have much higher rates of self harm, addiction, depression, anxiety all the way up to suicide. These stats remain much higher than background even after medical transition. Higher among male to female than female to male. Slightly better social supports maybe?

Agreed, but the your killing us guilt trip is going to be fact checked.

It's been used
With parents as to why they have to medicate
as a mantra to shut down debate
as a sellling point in fundrasing
as the foundation that misgendering is a violent hate crime

So wave the flag when holding the numbers

Glass fused light

Wibbs wrote: »

Reading the web address and it doesn't surprise me. Canada on the government and media level seems to hoover up every "progressive" fashion that wanders into view, so them getting into the 50 or whatever it is genders thing is hardly a shock.

Had a look through it last night and it appears to be based on white settlers being shocked that the "savages" allowed women to be warriors, men to do pottery and shock horror homosexual relations were accepted.

Wibbs

Glass fused light wrote: »

Agreed, but the your killing us guilt trip is going to be fact checked.

The facts are in, it's a demographic with scarily high self harm and suicide rates and part of that is quite clearly marginalisation.

And I'm hardly a rainbow flag waver. I do most certainly believe there are people that physiologically present as male or female, but have intersex brains and they need help and support and understanding. I don't believe the whole gender is a social construct stuff and it would be my opinion that a proportion of people presenting as trans when young are "going through a phase", or are gay folks coming to terms with that and their wider community, or that there is an element of peer influence/adolescent rebellion*, or wear some non binary label or other as a way of standing out and belonging to a wider community of same.




*study here on the subject.

Will I Am Not

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, the stoic nonacceptance of the ideology that gender and sex can be different things. Adamantly believing that science backs this position. Equating it to flat earthers and anti-vaxxers. Gay people had a hard time of it for a long time believing they were "wrong" and "unnatural". When are we going to stop saying the same thing to trans people. Not soon enough by the looks of things. There's not doubt that this Jessica Yaniv is a complete clown but I think compassion and acceptance is badly needed for the average person who feels they were born into the wrong body.

I couldn’t care less how other people want to identify themselves, none of my business. I’ve no problem going along with the he/she/him/her pronouns out of politeness when interacting with someone. Not everyone is like me, I have a massive problem with compelling people to speak in a certain way though.

“There’s no such thing as god”
“Religion is a load of rubbish” perfectly acceptable opinions to have around here.
“You can’t change gender”
“Transgender movement is a load of nonsense” Not acceptable at all.
The first examples are going to affect a lot more than the second.

I wouldn’t mind hearing from actual transgender people about how much it affects them when they see random people online that just don’t accept the whole transgender thing. Surely they know that not everyone is going to believe or go along with it. Can you not just say f*ck ‘em? It’s different if it’s directed personally obviously. In the same way that targeting an individual over their weight or religious beliefs would be out of order but it seems to be ok to slag off fat people or religious people.

I would agree that deliberately and directly misgendering someone you’re replying to here is a dick move.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Deleted User wrote: »

This is why the suicide rate is so high amongst trans people.

Is it? Because other people refuse to conform to their ideology? There's more to it than that. I imagine those who chose to take their life have suffered with mental illnesses. They may very well have been bullied due to their sexual orientation, but to claim they killed themselves because people said he instead of she is not right.

I had a pretty regular upbringing I would have thought. It wasn't unheard of for kids to play dress up and wear their sisters or mothers clothes, makeup or for them to play with dolls and prams. I used to play with my neighbors barbies and she used to play with my G.I. Joes. Kids copy things they see. But now we have parents pushing for gender reassignment, hormone therapy and the likes. WTF is happening?

If the child wishes to change sex, then let them make that decision as an adult. A childs brain simply isn't developed enough to make such a dramatic and irreversible decision. They can't drive, drink, smoke, marry, have sex or gamble, yet they can change sex? Fcuking madness. And society shouldn't pander to the lunatic parents either.

As for the pronoun uses, pronouns are completely meaningless now. To receive a death threat, bullying, vitriol, fines or other serious repercussions, including jail, because you use "he" instead of "she" or vice versa. Absolute madness. That's pandering to a mental illness in my eyes. Forcing people to use the "correct" pronoun? How do you even do that? What about my rights? I guess as a middle aged while male, I don't really have any. Although, I do identify as a 20 year old black female from time to time. Sometimes I change it up a little and chose to be Latino. That's ok for me to do, right?

Biologically, somebody who identifies as a female, but still has male genitalia, and reproductive organs, is still male, right? Vice versa for a female identifying as a male but still has female genitalia, and reproductive organs. Or is this completely wrong.

You see, people are conditioned from birth to use he/him/his for males, and she/her/hers when talking about females. Now we are told that is incorrect and the terms to use is whatever the person feels is right at the time. God forbid you get it wrong, you become transphobic (more nonsense).

As for the abbreviations, I get the LGBT part, but what's this Q2S+ stuff? I read about the 2S part and wtf is that? I don't believe in spirits in the first place, so the idea of having a female and male spirit is lost on me, anyway, what has it got to do with your sexuality? A woman can have a male spirit and still be hetrosexual? I honestly cannot get my head around it. Why has it been added to the LGBT term? I don't understand it at all.

I guess the + part is for every other sexual identity which I also know nothing about. How many sexual identities are there? What do they mean?

Oh, just be clear, I have a strong opinion that people should be able to bump bits with whoever they wish, you should be free from ridicule as a LGBT person, but do not force me to comply with your demands, do not call me a homophobe because I have never been involved in your movement or gone to a LGBT event, or worn a rainbow lanyard at work (this one really pisses me off, people questioning my motives when I politely decline to wear the lanyard "why don't you want to wear one", that's nobodies business and I don't have to explain myself either, still doesn't make me homophobic).

Worked with a trans person before, everybody used the term she asked us to use because it wasn't forced, she didn't throw a strop and didn't get offended if people slipped up. No amount of makeup, wigs or feminine clothing could hide the fact that she was born a male. No idea if she still had male genitalia or not, she used the female bathroom and nobody had an issue with it, that I knew of. She was a very nice person and got along with everybody.

At the same company there was another lady who was quite the opposite, she was gay and was apart of the sports and social at work. She couldn't understand why we disagreed with having a LGBT exclusive event funded by the sports and social club (which everybody involved paid for). When asked if it would be ok to have a heterosexual only event, she was livid. In her eyes we were all homophobic scum. She was a bloody lunatic. These people need to be put in their place, do not be afraid to call them out on their bull****.

Omackeral

Viviana Mammoth Neuron wrote: »

As for the abbreviations, I get the LGBT part, but what's this Q2S+ stuff?

It's for attention seekers who want to be extra special. Nothing more and nothing less. They should not be pandered to. Gay? Sure. Lesbian? No problem. Bisexual? Why not. Trans? It's not a sexual orientation but I can see why it's in with the movement. Anything else is just a load of ****

Wibbs

Gender and sexuality and all those 50+ "identities" as found on Facebook and the like can be categorised like this: Male, Female, Intersex. Straight, Gay, Bi, Asexual. Every one of them. Beyond that is navel gazing, affectation or straight out self delusion. Which BTW is fine so long as people accept wider society may not always agree with you.

lawlolawl

Viviana Mammoth Neuron wrote: »

As for the abbreviations, I get the LGBT part, but what's this Q2S+ stuff? I read about the 2S part and wtf is that? I don't believe in spirits in the first place, so the idea of having a female and male spirit is lost on me, anyway, what has it got to do with your sexuality? A woman can have a male spirit and still be hetrosexual? I honestly cannot get my head around it. Why has it been added to the LGBT term? I don't understand it at all.

Sounds like schizophrenia to me.

The Specialist

lawlolawl wrote: »

Sounds like schizophrenia to me.

That’s exactly what is it is, an existing category dressed up with a fantastical new name. A bit like Pansexuals - they are actually bisexual, but “love the being” instead of the gender a.k.a delusional nonsense.

vladmydad

After a hundred years of women fighting for and winning their rights, some men have now found a roundabout way, through transgenderism, to undermine those rights, I truly feel sorry for women and ask where are the feminists??...

To give woman of the year to a man in a dress (Jenner) and to have men in wigs take gold medals from women, is effectively saying that men are even better at being women than women are.

suicide_circus

vladmydad wrote: »

ask where are the feminists??..

they are being ostracized, shut down, banned and blacklisted using the very language and philosophies they created.

drunkmonkey

We could be here the a while, after the hearing yesterday they said it'll take up to 3mts to decide whether the biggots have to wax those balls.

Glass fused light

Wibbs wrote: »

The facts are in, it's a demographic with scarily high self harm and suicide rates and part of that is quite clearly marginalisation.


*study here on the subject.

I have no doubt that the impact of being in a small 'group' with limited social understanding has a major impact on the mental well being of any it's members.

However I object to 'the you have to obey or your a killer' argument.

It's been "commercialised" because the activists are on the one hand saying that it's got nothing to do with mental health. Then in the next breath trying to say objections are causing suicide.

The older wait and see had about 80ish% having resolved their issues by their early 20s. The other 20% needed the options to trans.

With Mermaids and co the full 100% would end up on meds pre puberty and in surgery as soon as the child was legally allowed.

And there is a serious agenda with Mermaids. The CEO brought her child to Thailand for a operation not legal in the UK. If the child has need Asian and a female her mother would have more likely been arrested for FGM than be doing TV interviews.

If the lobby to accept without investigation it's children who lose out in the long term.

The children loose the chance of children of their own before they even realise what that would mean to them in the future.

The difficulty in finding a partner will not be less than before.

We don't yet know the long term medical impact.

And they have not been socialised into the opposite sex and that presents challenges of its own.

As for the queer gender lot. I suspect that they are going to find that the "middle aged moment" ladies have experienced sex based inequality and we don't fancy going backwards in our old age.