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Bass Reeves · 10-07-2019 09:20AM

kk.man wrote: »

Having no bulls makes sense but little cattle doesn't. Reducing cattle in big numbers will have an consequence for tax returns. Maybe he lost his shirt as did many finishing bulls this winter/spring.

Most lads have a mortal fear of reducing stock numbers. First off you have to find out what stock value you are carrying and maybe associated feed costs you have on the sheets at year end. If this value is low then you will have an issue. However if it is at or near normal stock value then you should be ok. No farmer should leave himself in that trap it means you will find it hard to change or adjust your system. If lads are carrying serious losses from last winter then this may be a year where you can adjust your system.

Gets your 2018 accounts done ASAP and go through the figure with the account if it costs an extra 1-200 euro it is well worth it. As well you can adjust stock values to allow for tax issues. The way you normally get caught is taht stock are undervalued. Lads may have Store's in at a base vale of 4-500 euro each when in actual fact they are costing them 8-900 each and have 100 euro worth of feed consumed by Christmas.

If you have 100 cattle in at a base value of 500 each then there book value is 50K. However you could revalue you stock and give 50 cattle there true book value of 50K. However you would have a higher cash in hand and you have to change stock vales to adjust that. Talk to your accountant and he will advise you how to adjust it

patsy_mccabe · 10-07-2019 09:24AM

kk.man wrote: »

Having no bulls makes sense but little cattle doesn't. Reducing cattle in big numbers will have an consequence for tax returns. Maybe he lost his shirt as did many finishing bulls this winter/spring.

I don't think reducing cattle numbers has consequences for tax returns. You account for it with opening and closing stock values. As an accountant said to me, don't confuse cash with profit.
I think he'd be more likely to loose in the event of a price rise in store cattle.

grange mac · 14-07-2019 06:49AM

Last Friday in skibb 2 chx weaning bulls nice shape 450kg 900....2 chx 320kg 840....nobody is going to want the heavy bulls... But now everyone going want lighter ones which is going to be fun....

patsy_mccabe · 18-07-2019 01:38PM

Cull cows in Ennis today;

Fleshy types continental
Year Kg price
03 780 1340
12 835 1320
.... 790 1380
12 755 1290

Short flesh - cont types
16 535 880
03 635 990
635 1070

sonnybill · 20-07-2019 08:43PM

Dry heifer Ch x Lm 590kg E1220 , good heifer though

Albert Johnson · 20-07-2019 09:12PM

sonnybill wrote: »

Dry heifer Ch x Lm 590kg E1220 , good heifer though

It's not much money for what's a fair weight of a heifer, once you go into those sort of weights anything over €2kg seems a bonus at the minute. The lighter animal is more in demand imo, maybe lads are looking at long term stock and hoping to weather any price crisis in the medium term. There was a bunch of reared HEx and BBx heifer runners circa 120-150kg made from €315 to €600 (rough average €400) last night, it's hard to justify putting stock into big weights when you see what those sort of mice are making in comparison.

kk.man · 20-07-2019 09:18PM

Cull cows and cull ewes are still good money...it doesn't make sense.

patsy_mccabe · 20-07-2019 09:20PM

kk.man wrote: »

Cull cows and cull ewes are still good money...it doesn't make sense.

All going into mince, maybe ???

kk.man · 20-07-2019 09:28PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

All going into mince, maybe ???

Still good money compared to prime.

sonnybill · 20-07-2019 09:43PM

Albert Johnson wrote: »

It's not much money for what's a fair weight of a heifer, once you go into those sort of weights anything over €2kg seems a bonus at the minute. The lighter animal is more in demand imo, maybe lads are looking at long term stock and hoping to weather any price crisis in the medium term. There was a bunch of reared HEx and BBx heifer runners circa 120-150kg made from €315 to €600 (rough average €400) last night, it's hard to justify putting stock into big weights when you see what those sort of mice are making in comparison.

She been on farm two winters , poor money really

Bass Reeves · 20-07-2019 10:22PM

Albert Johnson wrote: »

It's not much money for what's a fair weight of a heifer, once you go into those sort of weights anything over €2kg seems a bonus at the minute. The lighter animal is more in demand imo, maybe lads are looking at long term stock and hoping to weather any price crisis in the medium term. There was a bunch of reared HEx and BBx heifer runners circa 120-150kg made from €315 to €600 (rough average €400) last night, it's hard to justify putting stock into big weights when you see what those sort of mice are making in comparison.

Send two heifers to the factory last week one an 0+3+ 305kgs and the other an R=3+ 307kgs . The first one netted 1102 euro and the second one 1178 euro after deduction but before transport. LW they be about 580 and 570kgs. That would be near enough the factory price for her.

Never wrestle with pigs · 21-07-2019 09:18AM

kk.man wrote: »

Cull cows and cull ewes are still good money...it doesn't make sense.

How are 600/700 kg Continental cows going that will feed for another few months?

Pidae.m · 21-07-2019 09:37AM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

kk.man wrote: »

Cull cows and cull ewes are still good money...it doesn't make sense.

How are 600/700 kg Continental cows going that will feed for another few months?

There was good blondes on fermoy Tues, long tight very bare and dried off. 700kg 1070ish

Albert Johnson · 21-07-2019 10:01AM

[quote=Never wrestle with pigs;
How are 600/700 kg Continental cows going that will feed for another few months?[/quote]

Either side of €1.50kg for goodish young store type cow's atm here in the North West. Older or poorer types are from there weight to €1.20kg up depending on cow type.

Albert Johnson · 21-07-2019 10:12AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Send two heifers to the factory last week one an 0+3+ 305kgs and the other an R=3+ 307kgs . The first one netted 1102 euro and the second one 1178 euro after deduction but before transport. LW they be about 580 and 570kgs. That would be near enough the factory price for her.

I agree Bass that it's roughly the price of her with they way beef is currently but it's not an inspiring return by any means. July should be a summer peak price month imo before the autumnal glut arrives to market. If those sort of prices are all that can be maintained at present then I dread to see what quotes will be available in a few months time.

I was always of the opinion that the factories conspired to give the lowest price that could sustain finishing cattle so that the beef would be available all year round while still maintaining the maximum processor margin. However I'm beginning to think they want to drive Irish beef producer's out of production and import lower cost and more profitable product from elsewhere. The last few months has really put the tin hat on the whole situation imo and they're making no attempts to hide the fact that Irish beef production is only getting in the way of there plans. Once south American beef or wherever else is flavour of the month starts coming into the EU I think it will sound the death knell for us entirely, not that the few of us that's left will be that dejected by then that I don't think anyone will even notice.

Who2 · 21-07-2019 10:13AM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

How are 600/700 kg Continental cows going that will feed for another few months?

Sold a third calver last week 670kg at 1240 and a bad lim bull weanling 360kg at 860. Where the price of beef is at I wasn’t complaining.

wrangler · 21-07-2019 11:17AM

Was anyone at the suckler clearance sale in tullamore last monday night, my neighbour sold cica 60, most with U and E grade calves and 4 and 5 star themselves. Last time I was talking to him he was thinking of dairying

Waternotsoda · 24-07-2019 06:16PM

What are friesans bull/bullock calves 6-10 month old making now. 200-250kg

Bass Reeves · 24-07-2019 07:55PM

Waternotsoda wrote: »

What are friesans bull/bullock calves 6-10 month old making now. 200-250kg

They would be great calves to be that weight at that age. In general calves that are well done continue to do well. I suspect that calves like that would make 1.5/kg maybe a tad more. But I have seen Fr spring born calves on DD for 260 euro but may not be as well done.

Waternotsoda · 24-07-2019 08:02PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They would be great calves to be that weight at that age. In general calves that are well done continue to do well. I suspect that calves like that would make 1.5/kg maybe a tad more. But I have seen Fr spring born calves on DD for 260 euro but may not be as well done.

A more realistic weight be 180kg. About €260.

Nobbies · 01-08-2019 10:02PM

With the price of finished beef where it is today and who knows with brexit yet to happen if there's more off a fall to come?
where should the price of the weanling be in the months ahead?

Fireside Solicitor · 01-08-2019 10:10PM

Well looking out 6 months is hard enough never mind 12-18 months but around 1.50 kg would make more sense

Welding Rod · 02-08-2019 06:55PM

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Well looking out 6 months is hard enough never mind 12-18 months but around 1.50 kg would make more sense

Gas how finishers wail, whimper, and cry because Larry forces a price on them, which doesn’t leave a margin considering their costs.
No problem to turn around when the opportunity arises, to offer a below cost of production to the weanling producerðŸ˜±
So shortage of Little Larry’s in this little country of hours.
But hey, we live in a market economy, so we got to roll with the punches.

Bass Reeves · 02-08-2019 07:32PM

Welding Rod wrote: »

Gas how finishers wail, whimper, and cry because Larry forces a price on them, which doesn’t leave a margin considering their costs.
No problem to turn around when the opportunity arises, to offer a below cost of production to the weanling producer��
So shortage of Little Larry’s in this little country of hours.
But hey, we live in a market economy, so we got to roll with the punches.

Most suckler/store producers fail to understand that most lads finishing cattle work on a margin, most of my margin is because I am good to get weight on cattle. I buy Friesian bullocks the margin I operate at and I am always open about this is about 200-250/head. To carry a store Friesian to finish from August to the following June-August costs 350/head. A 380-400kg store bought in mid August will kill about 330kgs DW the following summer in an average year.

At present such an animal is struggling to make 1100 euro. That means I can afford to pay about 500-530 for that type of store at present. If prices were at 4/kg the bullock would make about 1250 so I could afford to pay 650-680 for the same bullock. That the way the system works. The reasons that finishers see a huge issue with the autumn suckler trade are not only because of the poor beef prices, processors have also stated that they do not want over 16 months young bulls.

Some lads took an awful burning on them last winter and compounded it by letting them go over 24 months. most lads doing this these 16-24 month bulls were buying the lesser quality lighter weanling. One lad held two pens until 4-6 weeks ago. He took 3/kg for them and they averaged a small bit with 1450 euro. They consumed about 2 ton of ration each, along with straw and silage, not to mind time and labour. What can he afford to pay for replacements. If he took no margin on replacing them he could afford to pay no more than 600/head for these bulls at 250kgs including commission and transport fees.. He is planning on squeezing next years ones when the weather cools down a bit. Last week he bought 30 friesian bull calves for 220 each as he has too many bills to pay.

Like I have said to many here it is immaterial to me the beef price I jut take a finishers margin. Mine is a 12 month system my plan is to finish 58-60 bullocks and make a profit of 12-13K if I can. If my margin is going below 10k I reduce stock levels, there is no way I can see it exceeding 14K. In general in a poor or exceptionally strong market I find I make the lowest margin. When prices are 3.8-4/kg the market works best for me

If lads think they can pay more than me or that I am creaming it they can finish them themselves.

wrangler · 02-08-2019 08:07PM

Welding Rod wrote: »

Gas how finishers wail, whimper, and cry because Larry forces a price on them, which doesn’t leave a margin considering their costs.
No problem to turn around when the opportunity arises, to offer a below cost of production to the weanling producer&#55357;&#56881;
So shortage of Little Larry’s in this little country of hours.
But hey, we live in a market economy, so we got to roll with the punches.

And that's why I say have a chat with yourself before you ever give €100 for a calf again. Huge opprtunity there to cut costs, dairy farm have to get rid of them

Robson99 · 02-08-2019 08:25PM

Welding Rod wrote: »

Gas how finishers wail, whimper, and cry because Larry forces a price on them, which doesn’t leave a margin considering their costs.
No problem to turn around when the opportunity arises, to offer a below cost of production to the weanling producer��
So shortage of Little Larry’s in this little country of hours.
But hey, we live in a market economy, so we got to roll with the punches.

I suggest any weanling producer who thinks finishers are whingers to have a go at it themselves... any system they want... bulls heifers bullocks...
Most of them weanling producers who think finishers are whingers are the same lads who would carry a cow empty for 12 months just cause she produces a good calf or were the same lads whould whinged about a shortage of fodder last winter but wouldnt pay 250 for a ton of barley to stretch their fodder out a bit .
Believe me there are no little Larry's in the smaller finisher

Fireside Solicitor · 02-08-2019 08:50PM

I’d be happy to let the weanling men take over the finishing and good luck to them. A lot of finishers have been unwittingly subsidizing them for a while now because they didn’t know their own game well enough

Who2 · 02-08-2019 08:56PM

This is great another division starting between weanling producers and finishers, I know and so do most that the finishers need to make a margin too and to be straight everyone from suppliers to finishers need a touch, even Larry needs a bit. We don’t need communism but it needs to be spread a little more about.

older by the day · 02-08-2019 10:51PM

I don't finish. But I kept a big tall lanky fr bullock. He will be 30months in october. How much would I lose if he's not fit by then. Is the board bia bonus for him.

Water John · 02-08-2019 10:57PM

The feckers just grow in their own time, impossible to speed them up.

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