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Jp McManus and John Magnier Investment Success

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Comments

  • #2
    littlevillage
    Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Its easy to make money when you have lots of it to begin with ... I would be more interested in JP McManus's early days where he was a small time book maker and gambler


  • #3
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    littlevillage wrote: »
    Its easy to make money when you have lots of it to begin with ... I would be more interested in JP McManus's early days where he was a small time book maker and gambler

    Well from the few interviews he's done it looks like he quit the bookies business when he realised that a bookie is forced to bet on everything whereas a gambler can be selective on what he bets on. If he a loses significant amount of money on a bet he has the discipline to walk away...there will be other days and other bets. That takes serious discipline.

    He also has a mathematical brain and can spot a mispriced bet better than most.

    These are fairly good qualities to have in the currency markets and it has paid off big time. There was rumours swirling around for years that he made a fortune on the devaluation of the mexican peso in 1994 but was never confirmed. Here's an old article about more gains he made on currencies. Apparently Joe Lewis (Owner of Spurs FC) got him into trading...https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mcmanus-banks-25m-on-forex-bets-25955012.html


  • #4
    Dual wheels
    Registered Users Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dual wheels


    Interesting post, you can throw Dermot Desmond into the mix as well... there’s a reason there are no books about these guys, let’s just say it’s widely believed that the origins of their wealth isn’t exactly on the up and up... you look at any major deal done in this country and they were involved in it, from the sale of the telecom eireann site to when denis o Brien got the leg up with the sale of the mobile phone license, but these guys are shrewd operators they fly below the radar, anybody in Ireland who generated extreme wealth, they are all inextricably linked and it’s a closed circle


  • #5
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    Dual wheels wrote: »
    Interesting post, you can throw Dermot Desmond into the mix as well... there’s a reason there are no books about these guys, let’s just say it’s widely believed that the origins of their wealth isn’t exactly on the up and up... you look at any major deal done in this country and they were involved in it, from the sale of the telecom eireann site to when denis o Brien got the leg up with the sale of the mobile phone license, but these guys are shrewd operators they fly below the radar, anybody in Ireland who generated extreme wealth, they are all inextricably linked and it’s a closed circle

    The report on that Telecom Eireann site showed nothing illegal took place. Seems to me that DD basically took a % as a brokers fee just like any other deal. The main beneficiary of that sale was UK Billionaire Joe Lewis anyway.

    As for the DOB phone licence, Desmond provided some equity which again is totally normal. If he didnt go in on the deal, some private equity fund probably would have.

    What i like about the 3 lads (Magnier, Desmond, McManus) is that they kept there head down during the Celtic Tiger while all of these "celebrity developers" loved to make the front pages and get all the attention (Dunne, Ronan, etc). Theres a sense of class about them that these other wannabes dont have


  • #6
    Dual wheels
    Registered Users Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dual wheels


    NoteAgent wrote: »
    The report on that Telecom Eireann site showed nothing illegal took place. Seems to me that DD basically took a % as a brokers fee just like any other deal. The main beneficiary of that sale was UK Billionaire Joe Lewis anyway.

    As for the DOB phone licence, Desmond provided some equity which again is totally normal. If he didnt go in on the deal, some private equity fund probably would have.

    What i like about the 3 lads (Magnier, Desmond, McManus) is that they kept there head down during the Celtic Tiger while all of these "celebrity developers" loved to make the front pages and get all the attention (Dunne, Ronan, etc). Theres a sense of class about them that these other wannabes dont have

    Ah comparing the 3 lad to the likes of Sean Dunne and Johnny Ronan is like comparing a primary school maths test to an honors degree
    They are so clever that anything they do looks above board and because of that they stay below the radar but take it from me you do not get to their levels without stepping over the boundary


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  • #7
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    Dual wheels wrote: »
    Ah comparing the 3 lad to the likes of Sean Dunne and Johnny Ronan is like comparing a primary school maths test to an honors degree
    They are so clever that anything they do looks above board and because of that they stay below the radar but take it from me you do not get to their levels without stepping over the boundary

    Is this your view on all successful people?

    I've just given several examples of successful investments they've made which are very ordinary and are assets that virtually everyone has in their portfolio (equities, property, etc). Did they cheat on those too?

    I'd be interested to hear what excuse you have for Michael O' Leary being successful?


  • #8
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,156 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    They've benefitted hugely from favourable tax breaks on stud fees. A nice little helping hand from the Irish state - ie you and me...


  • #9
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    KaneToad wrote: »
    They've benefitted hugely from favourable tax breaks on stud fees. A nice little helping hand from the Irish state - ie you and me...

    JP's equine interests has lost him money overall actually. This hobby of his costs him millions of euro every year. As for Magnier, you're right he has benefited but on the other hand he brings in hundreds of millions in revenue every year into the country, employs thousands both directly and indirectly and has turn Ireland into the leading producer of thoroughbreds in the world.


  • #10
    the-island-man
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭the-island-man


    It also helps that JP is tax resident in Geneva so through the double taxation treaty he's only liable for a flat rate of 20% income tax on any income earned in Ireland.
    Also Switzerland's capital gains tax is 0% which works nicely for his trading business.


  • #11
    Dual wheels
    Registered Users Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dual wheels


    NoteAgent wrote: »
    JP's equine interests has lost him money overall actually. This hobby of his costs him millions of euro every year. As for Magnier, you're right he has benefited but on the other hand he brings in hundreds of millions in revenue every year into the country, employs thousands both directly and indirectly and has turn Ireland into the leading producer of thoroughbreds in the world.

    Lol do you really think J.P. Mc loses millions!!! It’s a tax offset
    These guys have it all sewn up, they benefited greatly from state subsidies and state deals yet don’t pay a cent tax here
    On Michael o Leary, he’s a different fish, he got to where he is through pure determination and hard graft and a lot of luck along the way, the other boys got to where they are through shrewdness and an ability to know the right people and circumvent the law


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  • #12
    ScottCapper
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭ScottCapper


    Dual wheels wrote: »
    Lol do you really think J.P. Mc loses millions!!! It’s a tax offset
    These guys have it all sewn up, they benefited greatly from state subsidies and state deals yet don’t pay a cent tax here
    On Michael o Leary, he’s a different fish, he got to where he is through pure determination and hard graft and a lot of luck along the way, the other boys got to where they are through shrewdness and an ability to know the right people and circumvent the law

    They still create thousands of jobs and do a load of charitable work. Quit being so negative it will get you absolutely no where..


  • #13
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Dual wheels wrote: »
    Lol do you really think J.P. Mc loses millions!!! It’s a tax offset
    These guys have it all sewn up, they benefited greatly from state subsidies and state deals yet don’t pay a cent tax here
    On Michael o Leary, he’s a different fish, he got to where he is through pure determination and hard graft and a lot of luck along the way, the other boys got to where they are through shrewdness and an ability to know the right people and circumvent the law

    Horses can’t be a tax off set because it is tax exempt.
    Some bar stool lads think call something a tax offset is the way to make millions. It doesn’t work that way, some hard work and smart thinking is involved too.


  • #14
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    JP should be going down as one of the greatest financial traders ever (up there with Druckenmiller, Soros, Tudor Jones, etc) but people would rather gloss over his genius and put his success down solely to his tax situation.
    Fun fact: You have to actually make gains in order to be taxed in the first place.


  • #15
    Dual wheels
    Registered Users Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dual wheels


    ScottCapper wrote: »
    They still create thousands of jobs and do a load of charitable work. Quit being so negative it will get you absolutely no where..

    You are mistaking fact for negativity, in fact I say fair play to them, if I had a way of dodging tax and knew the right people who could cut corners for me I’d do the exact same, there’s more people scrounging off the state than there is avoiding tax, they create loads of jobs and don’t forget J.P. gave every county 100k for their gaa clubs last year.... don’t forget though Pablo Escobar and el chappo were 2 of the most charitable people in the world, charity offers you 2 things, good public image and sweet tax breaks!!!


  • #16
    Dual wheels
    Registered Users Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dual wheels


    NoteAgent wrote: »
    JP should be going down as one of the greatest financial traders ever (up there with Druckenmiller, Soros, Tudor Jones, etc) but people would rather gloss over his genius and put his success down solely to his tax situation.
    Fun fact: You have to actually make gains in order to be taxed in the first place.
    Lol J.P. never traded in his life other than on the pony’s


  • #17
    marvin80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Dual wheels wrote: »
    Ah comparing the 3 lad to the likes of Sean Dunne and Johnny Ronan is like comparing a primary school maths test to an honors degree
    They are so clever that anything they do looks above board and because of that they stay below the radar but take it from me you do not get to their levels without stepping over the boundary

    Do tell us more random punter from the internet :rolleyes:


  • #18
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    Dual wheels wrote: »
    You are mistaking fact for negativity, in fact I say fair play to them, if I had a way of dodging tax and knew the right people who could cut corners for me I’d do the exact same, there’s more people scrounging off the state than there is avoiding tax, they create loads of jobs and don’t forget J.P. gave every county 100k for their gaa clubs last year.... don’t forget though Pablo Escobar and el chappo were 2 of the most charitable people in the world, charity offers you 2 things, good public image and sweet tax breaks!!!

    You haven't stated any fact though lol. JP is fully tax compliant and isn't "circumventing the law".
    Why would he pay taxes here if he doesn't owe any taxes here? He pays taxes where he generates income i.e. Switzerland.

    Should all the plasterers and builders who emigrated to Australia still be paying taxes back to Ireland even though they don't generate income here anymore?

    Sounds like you have an issue with the system rather than the people.


  • #19
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Dual wheels wrote: »
    Lol J.P. never traded in his life other than on the pony’s

    Are you confused with a different JP?


  • #20
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    Dual wheels wrote: »
    Lol J.P. never traded in his life other than on the pony’s

    There are multiple sources proving he does. I've provided one of them earlier in the thread.

    Whereas you have provided no evidence that he has broken any laws :rolleyes:


  • #21
    Dual wheels
    Registered Users Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dual wheels


    NoteAgent wrote: »
    You haven't stated any fact though lol. JP is fully tax compliant and isn't "circumventing the law".
    Why would he pay taxes here if he doesn't owe any taxes here? He pays taxes where he generates income i.e. Switzerland.

    Should all the plasterers and builders who emigrated to Australia still be paying taxes back to Ireland even though they don't generate income here anymore?

    Sounds like you have an issue with the system rather than the people.

    LOL


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  • #22
    ScottCapper
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭ScottCapper


    JP is a legend


  • #23
    the-island-man
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭the-island-man


    NoteAgent wrote: »
    but people would rather gloss over his genius and put his success down solely to his tax situation.
    Fun fact: You have to actually make gains in order to be taxed in the first place.

    Not sure if this is in reference to my post. I didn't mean it in a negative way. I just mean part of his success is in the fact that he has based himself in a jurisdiction that suits his activities.

    Spending a 183\184 days of the year in a different jurisdiction away from family and friends wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.


  • #24
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    the-island-man wrote: »
    Not sure if this is in reference to my post. I didn't mean it in a negative way. I just mean part of his success is in the fact that he has based himself in a jurisdiction that suits his activities.

    Spending a 183\184 days of the year in a different jurisdiction away from family and friends wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

    No I was talking about Dual Wheels' posts.

    I agree that his tax avoidance is quite extreme but he isn't breaking any laws.

    Paying less tax allows him to compound his capital quicker but you could put a million other people in his position and using the same advantages and they're not going to be able to get JP's results. What I mean is he is clearly gifted at what he does.


  • #25
    StolenKrone
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭StolenKrone


    JP is about as dubious as Mansfield was. There's a lot going on behind the scenes; like most that can get 100+ million together in this country.


  • #26
    ScottCapper
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭ScottCapper


    JP made his money abroad why should he pay it here?


  • #27
    NoteAgent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭NoteAgent


    StolenKrone wrote: »
    JP is about as dubious as Mansfield was. There's a lot going on behind the scenes; like most that can get 100+ million together in this country.

    Spoken like a true commie!

    "That guy has more money than me therefore he must have broken the law to get rich because theres's no way he's smarter than me"


  • #28
    marvin80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    A lot of scurrilous accusations being made with absolutely no proof to back it up.


  • #29
    badboyblast
    Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭badboyblast


    Mods should close this thread, absolute nonsense thread.


  • #30
    ScottCapper
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭ScottCapper


    NoteAgent wrote: »
    Spoken like a true commie!

    "That guy has more money than me therefore he must have broken the law to get rich because theres's no way he's smarter than me"

    Our country is being taken over by ****ing lefties who want everything for free and complain left right and center. socialism doesn't work JP and manfield should be motivational to people if anything! Jealousy is a bitch


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  • #31
    Dual wheels
    Registered Users Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dual wheels


    StolenKrone wrote: »
    JP is about as dubious as Mansfield was. There's a lot going on behind the scenes; like most that can get 100+ million together in this country.

    Thank you! Finally someone on this thread that’s not a sheep and has something between the ears
    Fair play to every one of them but going around saying what great men they are is just pathetic, they did very well for themselves but they are no saints let me tell you


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