EU to recommend abolishing DST

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-07-2019 05:13PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The funny thing is that this would have been a much bigger issue from 1916 - 200x. Now our devices largely correct themselves.

Yes, that makes things much easier. I just can’t fathom the physical changing of clocks being part of the reason for wanting to do away with clock changes. It’s such a mild imposition, barely an imposition really.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 17-07-2019 05:29PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

that's quite a big question that most probably warrants a different thread , but why do they need us more than we need then ? (in a concise one sentence answer) because i'm confused . They are are closest neighbour and in the case of what we or they do with the DST and time zones and some other matters wouldnt it be more sensible to have a level playing field on some things?

Simply because we will be remaining in the EU and they won’t. They rely heavily on EU subsidies for their farming and agribusiness industry and will suffer without them.

The majority of people in NI voted to remain in the EU and so it follows that they should be following us rather than the other way around.

VinLieger · 17-07-2019 05:40PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

No, the changing of clocks is an obvious better compromise.

By what verifiable metric bar you simply thinking it is as well as it being the easier option as many people simply don't like change?

ForestFire · 17-07-2019 05:52PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yes, that makes things much easier. I just can’t fathom the physical changing of clocks being part of the reason for wanting to do away with clock changes. It’s such a mild imposition, barely an imposition really.

Read the post again.

They did not say it was the physical changing of the clock itself, but the changing of the time, i.e. clocks, is an imposition to them for various reasons

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 17-07-2019 05:58PM

VinLieger wrote: »

By what verifiable metric bar you simply thinking it is as well as it being the easier option as many people simply don't like change?

I can’t fully parse that. One thing is bugging me though - you keep saying that it’s just my opinion. Your opinion is also your opinion. All of our opinions are our opinions.

Onto more rational arguments. The change makes sense (although winter time should be shorter) because as we see here, given the option of no time change, some people like winter time all year round so that winter mornings are bright and some like summer time all year round to keep the long evenings.

We can have both. All it needs is a time change twice a year of little consequence.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 17-07-2019 06:02PM

ForestFire wrote: »

Read the post again.

They did not say it was the physical changing of the clock itself, but the changing of the time, i.e. clocks, is an imposition to them for various reasons

Various reasons would need to be elaborated on before it becomes a legitimate argument.

kenmc · 17-07-2019 06:07PM

The whole "oh but the morning commute in the dark" crap is just that, crap. It's already dark in the deep winter morning's anyway, but it's dark and getting brighter, and people have had a night's sleep so should be rested. The evening commute though is where things should see an improvement; rush hour will get underway approaching dusk, rather than in full dark, so most of the commute for many people will be completed before it's full dark, thus should reduce accidents

prunudo · 17-07-2019 06:10PM

One thing that I've noticed in here from various posters is that the people on who are against all year summertime will accept it reluctantly and would be happy to continue the current compromise or even shorter wintertime.
Where as the people in favour are very much more hardline and not willing to accept the others view point. Its all their way or no way.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 17-07-2019 06:19PM

kenmc wrote: »

The whole "oh but the morning commute in the dark" crap is just that, crap. It's already dark in the deep winter morning's anyway, but it's dark and getting brighter, and people have had a night's sleep so should be rested. The evening commute though is where things should see an improvement; rush hour will get underway approaching dusk, rather than in full dark, so most of the commute for many people will be completed before it's full dark, thus should reduce accidents

For many? I get home at 6:30 to 7 and it’s dark until mid March. We could always end winter time in February though if we were to keep the change.

All workers will be getting up and starting work in pitch darkness mid winter though in all round summertime. Sunrise at near 10am.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 17-07-2019 06:21PM

prunudo wrote: »

One thing that I've noticed in here from various posters is that the people on who are against all year summertime will accept it reluctantly and would be happy to continue the current compromise or even shorter wintertime.
Where as the people in favour are very much more hardline and not willing to accept the others view point. Its all their way or no way.

It’s the best option if there’s no time change. The problem is fixing something that wasn’t broken to begin with.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 17-07-2019 06:28PM

My vote goes for it should be the same time all year round, be it summer or winter time.

I find it unnecessary to change the clocks twice a year.

There should also be another 3 bank holidays per year. Yeah it's not the right thread for it but I wanted to say it.

Lackadaisical · 17-07-2019 06:30PM

The big issue now is the UK will set itself against something like this purely because it's coming from the EU. So, it will inevitably end up as a time line on the border. Although, plenty of stuff changes there anyway - politics, currency, legal rights etc etc.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 17-07-2019 06:31PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

My vote goes for it should be the same time all year round, be it summer or winter time.

I find it unnecessary to change the clocks twice a year.

There should also be another 3 bank holidays per year. Yeah it's not the right thread for it but I wanted to say it.

Yeh that’s the problem. People who unthinkingly don’t like the (largely not applicable in the modern age) changing of clocks without thinking about the consequences.

Agreed on the bank holidays.

kildarecommuter · 17-07-2019 07:17PM

Is there not already different time zones in Northern Ireland & Republic approx 330 years ðŸ˜႒

Paddy Cow · 17-07-2019 07:25PM

prunudo wrote: »

One thing that I've noticed in here from various posters is that the people on who are against all year summertime will accept it reluctantly and would be happy to continue the current compromise or even shorter wintertime.
Where as the people in favour are very much more hardline and not willing to accept the others view point. Its all their way or no way.

I am a hardline summer time advocate. If we have to pick one time for all year, I absolutely do not want to lose the long summer evenings. I'd rather stay on the system we have now than change to year long winter time.

17-07-2019 07:44PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I am a hardline summer time advocate. If we have to pick one time for all year, I absolutely do not want to lose the long summer evenings. I'd rather stay on the system we have now than change to year long winter time.

I agree
Getting dark at 9pm these days would not be ideal, and it getting bright at 4am rather than 5am would be of no use to anyone really.

That's why late evenings are more valuable in summer and earlier mornings more valuable in winter.

Great to see the government wanting to stick with the status quo.

yaguhu cloud · 17-07-2019 08:12PM

back before accurate timekeeping, there used to be 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of night, no matter the length of day, we should go back to that, dynamically changing time with the seasons

Akrasia · 17-07-2019 08:14PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I just can’t get over this. That is a job that takes less than ten minutes. How lazy can a person be? It might be an issue for someone who is disabled but in that case, you’d hope they’d keep the clocks in easy reach.

There are others reasons I have time for, pun intended. But not the moaning about having to change a few clocks twice a year. If that seriously bothers you, you don’t know you’re alive. It is such a non-problem.

It not about physically changing the clocks, it’s about giving the country collective jet lag twice a year for no proven net benefit. Also for the few weeks that it’s dark at 9am either side of Christmas, there are months where an evening of usable sunlight is sacrificed so it can be bright when people are asleep or just getting up

Akrasia · 17-07-2019 08:17PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The funny thing is that this would have been a much bigger issue from 1916 - 200x. Now our devices largely correct themselves.

Not knowing what time it is, not being a good reason to not change the clocks is the ultimate straw man argument.

(How about those for double negatives)

17-07-2019 08:22PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s the best option if there’s no time change. The problem is fixing something that wasn’t broken to begin with.

Or more correctly by trying to fix something that is impossible to fix, we're too far north to make any real difference.
Best thing would be to select the best timezone and change between summertime and wintertime at the optimum times in the year to minimise the excessively long dark mornings and long dark evenings.
It would be impossible to choose s solution that would satisfy the majority of people.

Berserker · 17-07-2019 08:22PM

Glad to hear the government are sticking to the status quo.

kildarecommuter wrote: »

Is there not already different time zones in Northern Ireland & Republic approx 330 years ðŸ˜႒

Akrasia · 17-07-2019 08:29PM

yaguhu cloud wrote: »

back before accurate timekeeping, there used to be 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of night, no matter the length of day, we should go back to that, dynamically changing time with the seasons

Eh. We’re not living on the equator

Who wants to explain seasons to this poster?

17-07-2019 08:39PM

yaguhu cloud wrote: »

back before accurate timekeeping, there used to be 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of night, no matter the length of day, we should go back to that, dynamically changing time with the seasons

Akrasia wrote: »

Eh. We’re not living on the equator

Who wants to explain seasons to this poster?

Technically he is correct, twice a year anyway (a bit like a stopped clock).

yaguhu cloud · 17-07-2019 09:23PM

wikipedia. org/wiki/12-hour_clock

The Romans also used a 12-hour clock: daylight was divided into 12 equal hours (thus hours having varying length throughout the year) and the night was divided into four watches.

Deleted User wrote: »

Technically he is correct, twice a year anyway (a bit like a stopped clock).

thats the nicest thing anyones ever said about me

VinLieger · 17-07-2019 09:54PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I can’t fully parse that. One thing is bugging me though - you keep saying that it’s just my opinion. Your opinion is also your opinion. All of our opinions are our opinions.

Onto more rational arguments. The change makes sense (although winter time should be shorter) because as we see here, given the option of no time change, some people like winter time all year round so that winter mornings are bright and some like summer time all year round to keep the long evenings.

We can have both. All it needs is a time change twice a year of little consequence.

I keep saying opinion because there is no good factually based reason bar peoples feelings and opinions to stay with the current system, and theres one very good fact based reason to change in that the entirety of the rest of the EU will be doing it.

If the rest of Europe and very likely the US in the near future go ahead with this why would we choose to be the odd ones out simply to appease those amongst us who simply dislike change.

17-07-2019 10:13PM

VinLieger wrote: »

I keep saying opinion because there is no good factually based reason bar peoples feelings and opinions to stay with the current system, and theres one very good fact based reason to change in that the entirety of the rest of the EU will be doing it.

If the rest of Europe and very likely the US in the near future go ahead with this why would we choose to be the odd ones out simply to appease those amongst us who simply dislike change.

If the rest of Europe told you to jump off a cliff would you ?

Our northerly latitude and our westerly longitude makes the seasonal swings in our length of daylight different from those in big population bases like France, Germany,and central Europe.

Just because they think it's a good idea does not make it a good idea for us.

In the US Arizona does not observe DST, parts of Indiana do not also.

In Australia QLD does not where as NSW does.

There is scope for non conformity.

Larbre34 · 17-07-2019 10:21PM

VinLieger wrote: »

theres one very good fact based reason to change in that the entirety of the rest of the EU will be doing it.

B0ll0x to the rest of the EU, the med states don't have to tolerate the light change at our latitude.

And anyway, its not like the EU would be all in one time zone, the Eastern nations will still be +3hr difference from us, albeit fixed for the year.

We need to do what is best for US. In practical terms, there is so much goods traffic across the border it makes no sense to have different business hours, but the main consideration IMO is the same one that was argued years ago, the kids should not be going to school in the dark, its an extra risk that is not necessary. All this talk about usable business hours and people walking the cities in the winter evenings is just B.S.

Its not going to change and thats the right decision.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 18-07-2019 05:49AM

ForestFire wrote: »

Read the post again.

They did not say it was the physical changing of the clock itself, but the changing of the time, i.e. clocks, is an imposition to them for various reasons

He literally said “changing the clocks”. I don’t know about you but I'd take that to mean changing the clocks.

And if for some reason, that’s not what he meant, a vague “various reasons” is hardly convincing. Wow, various reasons! That’s not at all nebulous. I’m totally convinced now.

No, I’m sticking with it barely being an imposition. I want your life if this is something that really affects you.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 18-07-2019 06:15AM

Akrasia wrote: »

It not about physically changing the clocks, it’s about giving the country collective jet lag twice a year for no proven net benefit. Also for the few weeks that it’s dark at 9am either side of Christmas, there are months where an evening of usable sunlight is sacrificed so it can be bright when people are asleep or just getting up

For the love of jaysus. Are you actually serious with this nonsense? Jet lag? Jet lag? It’s an hour. What are you talking about?

And if you had read the last few pages of the thread, I said I thought the summertime portion being lengthened is a good one. The clock change doesn’t have to equally divide up the year. UTC for two or three months in the dead of winter would get us through the dark mornings and in midwinter, there’d be the square root of fück all extra useable evening, the days are so short.

VinLieger · 18-07-2019 07:31AM

Wow where to start with all this mindless guff

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

If the rest of Europe told you to jump off a cliff would you ?

Nice strawman but also sad you had to resort to it.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Our northerly latitude and our westerly longitude makes the seasonal swings in our length of daylight different from those in big population bases like France, Germany,and central Europe.

They get by in Iceland just fine

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just because they think it's a good idea does not make it a good idea for us.

Still havent proved this using any data but keep spouting it if it makes you feel good.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

In the US Arizona does not observe DST, parts of Indiana do not also.

In Australia QLD does not where as NSW does.

There is scope for non conformity.

Indeed there is which is why the whole Northern Ireland argument is garbage.

However when we are going to single ourselves out from our largest International trading and business partner then that scope for non conformity needs to be weighed against the fact that we would be creating a very unique blocker for business relationships that could honestly hurt our competitiveness

Larbre34 wrote: »

B0ll0x to the rest of the EU, the med states don't have to tolerate the light change at our latitude.

Very mature

Larbre34 wrote: »

And anyway, its not like the EU would be all in one time zone, the Eastern nations will still be +3hr difference from us, albeit fixed for the year.

Whooosh...... thats the sound of the argument going over your head btw......

Larbre34 wrote: »

We need to do what is best for US. In practical terms, there is so much goods traffic across the border it makes no sense to have different business hours, but the main consideration IMO is the same one that was argued years ago, the kids should not be going to school in the dark, its an extra risk that is not necessary. All this talk about usable business hours and people walking the cities in the winter evenings is just B.S.

See above theres multiple examples for scope of non conformity on small land borders.

Also the "think of the children" emotional argument is really quite pathetic. You do know it was created by those in favour of DST as another way to get stupid people who couldn't understand it more passionate about it right? The real and only reason for DST was energy saving, nothing more.

But sure lets take a logical look at it if you really want. Currently it doesnt get bright really until about 9 o clock in the deepest part of winter, you do know theres plenty of kids venturing to schools from around 7am yeah? So this wont affect them. Then theres also the fact that the vast vast majority of kids are either driven by their parents or on public transport for the majority of their journeys these days again all done prior to 9am when it actually starts to get bright.

So which kids are you worried about again?

EU to recommend abolishing DST

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