Wimbledon 2019

glasso wrote: »

yes - just an answer to a question I agree.

staying fit, mentally well (has it even been explained why he went "off reservation" for so long there? - issues with his marriage it was postulated), being hungry for it, real contenders not emerging -> all these factors are key obviously.

at the moment I see him getting at least 4 to tie Federer.

I’m not accusing him of any wrongdoing, but I did come across the below on a thread elsewhere, which I found interesting. Coincidence perhaps, but it is interesting, particularly given the fact he was defending Sharapova at the time.

Djokovic’s dramatic form slump began shortly after Sharapova tested positive for Meldonium, and Djokovic urged the public to presume her innocence until proven guilty, and physically Djokovic looked gaunt after that time. That’s a few red flags.

Today, Djokovic has won Wimbledon again. Was it just a form slump, or has Djokovic found a new drug to help him? I don’t know, but there’s still a great deal to be suspicious about.

Perhaps the biggest sign that Djokovic was taking something is that, during his dramatic form slump, he didn’t appear to be baffled by it. He just gave superficial explanations for it. But if I was a top tennis professional, beaming with health and vitality, and I experienced a dramatic form slump, I would be racing to the doctors to have every blood test available to see what disease I might have, and I would be suffering depression and despair. Djokovic didn’t react that way, he acted like he knew what was wrong. That’s a huge red flag.

I’d love to know the full reason behind his sudden drop in form. He went from all-time great level to complete journeyman. The one slam he did well in over that 2 year period (US Open 2016) he actually had 3 walkovers from memory (or maybe 2 walkovers and an early retirement) and come the final he was comprehensively beaten by Wawrinka. Chumps he lost to during that time in slams: Querry, Chung, Ceccinato, Istomin. He was also thumped by Thiem at RG, a far cry from their recent 5 setter there.

It’s definitely a bizarre drop in form. It’s never been fully explained.

Maybe he just had a dip in form, or better still, caught some illness like Roger did in 2008, that saw Roger being next to useless on a court...oh, wait..

Sharapova tested positive for drugs in early 2016....

Nole had a pretty solid season in 2016, winning 88 percent matches and two slam titles....

So he lost some matches during 2016.....and?

2017 he had a poorer season. But he had his troubles and issues...retired in SW19 and did not play in the U.S. Open. Persistent injuries.

If that was RF would we be having this silly discussion?

His very well grounded dad explained everything back in February of last year.

Ne radi se o krizi, nego priroda čini svoje. Zamor materijala, povreda... Na to se ne utiče. Pauza je jednom morala da se desi. U tom lečenju je možda bilo propusta, ali to nije urađeno namerno. Sad je sve kako treba, Nole je počeo rehabilitaciju i daće Bog da u narednom periodu počne da igra. Očekujem ga na terenu za masterse na šljaci u maju- kaže Srđan, a onda je ispričao zanimljivu priču.

- Pre nekoliko godina, povučen svim tim pričama, kažem mu: "Sine, vrati krst." On se brecnuo, iz košulje izvadio krst koji mu je bio na grudima i rekao mi: "Tata, ja nikad neću skrenuti sa božijeg puta

Basically God got on board his team again and he now wears a cross from Hilandar instead of some mumby jumby stones from Machu Picchu or wherever.

walshb wrote: »

You want to hear drugs abuse....just admit it.

Injuries and maybe depression or loss of interest/personal reasons won't cut it for you, unless it was Roger....

I think you are so invested in Roger's career and so want him to be seen as the GOAT, that the likes of Nole and Nadal really challenging this, makes you uneasy, and to try and explain it, you question their reputations. It's scandalous that people do this. Not a dig at you personally, it's juts the whole way people try to blacken people's names with no evidence of those people doing anything illegal.

Hardly went to complete journeyman either....had 40 games and lost 7/8.

Funny enough, my Spanish housemate who worked as a tennis coach in Spain (having played at a reasonably high level within Spain) before moving to Ireland, said to me the other day, he believes every single player within the top 20 is doping.

I don't agree (or maybe I just don't want to agree), but it's the first time I've ever heard anybody within tennis say something like this. He likely has a much bigger understanding of what goes on in the sport in his native country than any of us put together.

Doesn't mean he's right at all. Let me clarify that, before you think otherwise.

glasso wrote: »

the same guy who (you said) last week was certain Tsonga would beat Nadal.

obviously an authority to be taken seriously!

Haha indeed!

He's a big Rafa fan and I guess was trying to lower his own expectations so he wouldn't get disappointed. I do that all the time myself.

At the same time I respect his tennis knowledge.

I'll dig deeper on the doping over pints. See if he's ever seen anything or heard anything through the grapevine.

eagle eye wrote: »

Roger is the GOAT.

Yes, definite legitimate argument.

My wider point is how he never gets leveled with this nonsense conspiracy doping speculation..

With Roger it's all art and talent and skills; but with some others, sure they have to be doping to be able to hit tennis balls for 3-4-5-6 hours.....

Chivito550 wrote: »

Funny enough, my Spanish housemate who worked as a tennis coach in Spain (having played at a reasonably high level within Spain) before moving to Ireland, said to me the other day, he believes every single player within the top 20 is doping.

I don't agree (or maybe I just don't want to agree), but it's the first time I've ever heard anybody within tennis say something like this. He likely has a much bigger understanding of what goes on in the sport in his native country than any of us put together.

Doesn't mean he's right at all. Let me clarify that, before you think otherwise.

Well, you do come across as really wanting it to be true. The fact that Roger is so challenged by the two others maybe wants you to search for reasons for this, other than them being fantastic tennis players and fantastic athletes.

walshb wrote: »

Well, you do come across as really wanting it to be true. The fact that Roger is so challenged by the two others maybe wants you to search for reasons for this, other than them being fantastic tennis players and fantastic athletes.

Drugs would probably help the grinder more. Who knows maybe Roger had to them to keep up with the grinders.

However I have heard the same allegations against all top athletes I have cared to look at. Some of them are probably right. I suspect all sports need to up their testing game but until then I see little reason to drown a sport in idle speculation. I tend to ignore all the allegations until there is something more.

Was it McEnroe who said he had unknowingly being given roids for years?

walshb wrote: »

Do you agree that Nole and Nadal are as much clean as Roger, or as much dirty as Roger?

I believe all three to be exceptional talents, but more importantly, all three come across as on the level and decent/honest people, of integrity and fairness.

Doping will help absolutely anyone. Rafa and Novak’s style would lend itself more to doping than Roger’s style. That’s not to say Roger wouldn’t benefit from it (he absolutely would). Having followed their careers closely for over a decade and a half, you could argue a case for any of them doping. I think the case is probably stronger regarding Rafa and Novak though, with the former having Operation Puerto and the secrecy of who the tennis blood bags belonged to while the latter had a sudden explosion in 2011.

Again, all three could very well be clean (I hope they are) but I do find it odd that tennis folk just sort of accept what they see as always being above board and never ask questions. I’ve sat in press conferences in major athletics championships where Mo Farah, Usain Bolt, Shelly-Anne-Fraser Price etc have been asked doping related questions. Remember, a question is NOT an accusation. Clean athletes welcome questions, and will have a good answer. But the tennis media don’t seem interested in asking questions.

I’m not making accusations here. I’m simply asking questions. Unfortunately I’ve no press pass for tennis events, and if I had, given the culture in the tennis media, I’d probably be thrown out for asking such questions!

Hector Savage wrote: »

I had a colleague who was a really really good footballer when he was a kid, never quite made it tho, and he thinks too that all EPL footballers are doping - ALL of them.

Now one would think, hmmm worrying, he knows the game so if he says it .... but of course it could be his own excuse as to why he never made it ??
Like your Spanish housemate perhaps ?

Yep, always a possibility.

Hector Savage wrote: »

I had a colleague who was a really really good footballer when he was a kid, never quite made it tho, and he thinks too that all EPL footballers are doping - ALL of them.

This is the sh1t I hate about doping. "ALL are doping." Like nobody has any decency and fairness. "They're all cheats." It's insanely stupid and ignorant.

Or the "you can't win if you are not cheating." Utter horseshi1t...it's lazy and uninformed and uneducated nonsense.

Cycling has a history of cheating, yet most think, me included, that LeMond was clean.....yet to many you cannot win the tour clean....

I know during his reign EPO was yet to really take hold, but there was still dopers in the 1980s...

walshb wrote: »

Very reasoned and fair approach this...

BTW, do you consider the persons involved, and how they come across etc?

As in, do you, like me think that all three come across as honest and fair and with integrity? Or do you see or feel anything about any of them that is a little off, or unfair?

I know I "defended" Lance, but that was more because he had not failed tests for so long. But I never trusted him, or had a feeling that this guy was a real decent/honest individual...

We have to, and should include, in our thought process, how these sports people make us feel as regards thei fairness and integrity....

Mo Farrah......clean
Paula....clean
Bolt...clean

All three above strike me as being honest....

I used to think like that too. But I’ve learned a very important lesson:

Nice guys dope too.

Being a nice person and doping aren’t mutually exclusive. There are many reasons why people dope.