Changes in the GAA - super thread

RoyalCelt · 11-07-2019 11:51PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The Dublin Hurlers played an All Ireland semi final six years ago. They’ve gone consistently backwards since then. Quite the hole in the funding argument surely?

Only if your outlook is black and white. Dublin have funding coming in from all angles. There's no doubt without such large funding they'd not be as good as they are. Same goes for any county. Cut meaths funds over the last 10 years in half and we'd be worse off. The funding has made a massive impact for Dublin hurling.

I for one am glad. Because unlike the football hurling 20 years ago didn't feel popular in Dublin. Hurling in general felt like it wasn't as popular as a result. Now it feels much bigger nationwide. Lads I know who had no interest in hurling growing up are having their heads turned. It's catching their attention. The other big thing is Leinster is no longer a foregone conclusion. At the start of the year you have literally no idea who out of the big 4 will get to the Leinster final. And next year Laois should be more competitive then carlow.

I think the funding for hurling has been great but they need to realise when Dublin have become self sufficient and ensure they never pull away from the pack like what happened with the football. All the hard work growing hurling across Leinster would be undone.

ToBeFrank123 · 12-07-2019 10:20AM

What's lacking in Dublin hurling is the tradition and this counts for a lot in sport. They are coming from a low base.
But they still have made huge strides in the last 10 years. Beating Galway in the championship this year was a huge scalp but so was winning Leinster a few years ago. It shows they can match any team on any given day. Dublin hurlers have improved massively in the last 10 years. Whether that's down to an increase in funding and resources is the question.

Last Stop · 13-07-2019 10:29PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Far from unfeasible in fact. Very straightforward tbh. Split the count into north and south based on playing figures and potential playing figures. Appoint a manager. That's it really... It is far less extreme a change than seperating the entire country into 2 tiers, and that seems to be going to be in place within a few months...

The reality is, the path they have gone down means they will have little other option as the inter county game will die a death. They are hardly going to start starving kids of coaching in dublin so the only other real option is create two dublin teams. At present the north dublin team would probably still win the all ireland, while the south team would be in the super 8s.

I think if Dublin does even get split, it will be based on the 4 county councils as this would be a way for the GAA to justify it without undermining the inter county nature of the game

salmocab · 13-07-2019 10:35PM

Last Stop wrote: »

I think if Dublin does even get split, it will be based on the 4 county councils as this would be a way for the GAA to justify it without undermining the inter county nature of the game

Harsh on cork and Waterford
Although has Waterford been made one again?

doc_17 · 14-07-2019 12:29AM

I think the timekeeping really needs to be taken out of the referee’s hands. Teams are killing momentum by lying down every time someone’s shadow blows across them.

Fann Linn · 14-07-2019 12:41AM

doc_17 wrote: »

I think the timekeeping really needs to be taken out of the referee’s hands. Teams are killing momentum by lying down every time someone’s shadow blows across them.

Just reverse it like in the women's game. And stop for injuries, scuffles etc.
Simples.

MayoAreMagic · 14-07-2019 12:54AM

Last Stop wrote: »

I think if Dublin does even get split, it will be based on the 4 county councils as this would be a way for the GAA to justify it without undermining the inter county nature of the game

Well that is probably the right way to do it but I dont think dublin would be capable of putting out 4 teams at present. It would just kill football in the county and that isnt what people want. 2 teams would very doable however and in truth could be up and running in the morning.

RoyalCelt · 14-07-2019 02:03AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well that is probably the right way to do it but I dont think dublin would be capable of putting out 4 teams at present. It would just kill football in the county and that isnt what people want. 2 teams would very doable however and in truth could be up and running in the morning.

Two teams makes sense for now. The all Ireland final or semi final fixture would often be north Dublin vs South Dublin but that at least would be better then Dublin walking it yearly.

But it wouldn't kill football no matter what. If you removed Dublin from the championship attendances across all other matches would increase. So many fans can't be arsed. Meath vs Kildare in a leinster quarter final should get 20-30k. But it won't even get 8k because the fans don't see the point. The winner will be Hammered by Dublin regardless.

ArielAtom · 14-07-2019 05:49AM

Just a couple of questions for everyone.

1.Would everyone be in agreement that Dublin should build their own stadium?

2. Would you object to the GAA donating the same amount to it, as they did to Corks home ground?

It is a simple yes/no to both questions.

Last Stop · 14-07-2019 08:44AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well that is probably the right way to do it but I dont think dublin would be capable of putting out 4 teams at present. It would just kill football in the county and that isnt what people want. 2 teams would very doable however and in truth could be up and running in the morning.

How would it kill football in the county? Are you suggesting if Dublin stop winning then people will turn their back. If that’s the case then good riddance.

The 4 councils is a ore natural split as everyone knows where they stand. Splitting by N/S leaves some ambiguity really. For example the post codes are split N/S yet D24 is on the north side...
I think 4 teams would be a great opportunity for some of those currently not getting a look in to be able to play at inter county level which is good for everyone. Plus it removes the risks that the 2 county split isn’t enough and it becomes a shootout between the 2 Dublin teams for years.

Last Stop · 14-07-2019 08:45AM

ArielAtom wrote: »

Just a couple of questions for everyone.

1.Would everyone be in agreement that Dublin should build their own stadium?

2. Would you object to the GAA donating the same amount to it, as they did to Corks home ground?

It is a simple yes/no to both questions.

Yes
Yes

salmocab · 14-07-2019 08:54AM

Last Stop wrote: »

How would it kill football in the county? Are you suggesting if Dublin stop winning then people will turn their back. If that’s the case then good riddance.

The 4 councils is a ore natural split as everyone knows where they stand. Splitting by N/S leaves some ambiguity really. For example the post codes are split N/S yet D24 is on the north side...
I think 4 teams would be a great opportunity for some of those currently not getting a look in to be able to play at inter county level which is good for everyone. Plus it removes the risks that the 2 county split isn’t enough and it becomes a shootout between the 2 Dublin teams for years.

D24 is not on the NS
Not that it will happen but NS split leaves no ambiguity as there is a physical barrier in place.
I live in south Dublin but my closest club is in dlr.

dunnerc · 14-07-2019 09:25AM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Two teams makes sense for now. The all Ireland final or semi final fixture would often be north Dublin vs South Dublin but that at least would be better then Dublin walking it yearly.

But it wouldn't kill football no matter what. If you removed Dublin from the championship attendances across all other matches would increase. So many fans can't be arsed. Meath vs Kildare in a leinster quarter final should get 20-30k. But it won't even get 8k because the fans don't see the point. The winner will be Hammered by Dublin regardless.

Is that you Jack_Goff ?:rolleyes:

doc_17 · 14-07-2019 09:33AM

Yes they should build their own stadium. And no, the GAA shouldn’t pay for it. Shouldn’t be paying for Cork’s either unless they plan to oft all the gate receipts to recoup their money

Mr.Crinklewood · 14-07-2019 09:36AM

On the other thread someone mentioned soccer and said London teams could call all games in London "home" games.

Got me thinking imagine the uproar if England got to play most / all World Cup Finals games at Wembley.

Would probably give them an advantage...

Might even get them to win one or tw...ah one of them.

doc_17 · 14-07-2019 09:57AM

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

On the other thread someone mentioned soccer and said London teams could call all games in London "home" games.

Got me thinking imagine the uproar if England got to play most / all World Cup Finals games at Wembley.

Would probably give them an advantage...

Might even get them to win one or tw...ah one of them.

Well if all of the games against all the other teams from London were in the same stadium then yes. But....

gaffer91 · 14-07-2019 10:05AM

Look there are a few simple steps the GAA can take to revitalise the inter- county game.

1. Split Dublin into four teams
2. Pool sponsorship money centrally and divide fairly among all counties.
3. Once Dublin are split, share central funding more fairly among counties rather than just giving the lion's share to the team with multiple other advantages.

Without splitting Dublin, even other steps like reducing the Games Development funds probably wouldn't make as much difference now- the damage has already been done. Dublin would need years of under- funding relative to everyone else for there to be even some hope of equality there.

Forcing Dublin to play away from their home in Croke Park more frequently, while also commendable, probably wouldn't make that much difference given how far ahead they are of everyone else.

doc_17 · 14-07-2019 10:52AM

I’d be against, for now, splitting Dublin. But if the current dominance continues for the next 10 years then it will have to be looked at. But they should play in CP max 4 times a year, League final, Leinster final, AI SF and AI Final.

Is the Munster Championship still seeded?

gaffer91 · 14-07-2019 11:50AM

10 more years of the current tripe and the fan count will be in triple digits for all inter-county games. Once people's interest goes it will never return to the same extent.

It could well be too late already for the inter- county game, even if there was any appetite amongst the GAA to make the necessary changes, which there isn't.

blinding · 14-07-2019 12:10PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

10 more years of the current tripe and the fan count will be in triple digits for all inter-county games. Once people's interest goes it will never return to the same extent.

It could well be too late already for the inter- county game, even if there was any appetite amongst the GAA to make the necessary changes, which there isn't.

We have had that 10 years especially in the Leinster Championship . If the GAA don’t sort out the Farce that is the Dublin Football's Team ridiculous advantages soon they won’t need to be worrying about Inter County Football . Sport needs a somewhat fair competition . People need to believe their team has a reasonable chance . Otherwise it is not competitive sport .

Fann Linn · 14-07-2019 01:04PM

blinding wrote: »

We have had that 10 years especially in the Leinster Championship . If the GAA don’t sort out the Farce that is the Dublin Football's Team ridiculous advantages soon they won’t need to be worrying about Inter County Football . Sport needs a somewhat fair competition . People need to believe their team has a reasonable chance . Otherwise it is not competitive sport .

They'd want to sort Munster out first. 1992 was the last time anyone outside of the big 2 won anything.

gaffer91 · 14-07-2019 01:48PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

They'd want to sort Munster out first. 1992 was the last time anyone outside of the big 2 won anything.

Nah they'd want to sort out Leinster and Dublin's unfair advantages first. At least there is some semblance of competition in the Munster championship, not one unfairly favoured team bulldozing everyone else.

And if there is a duopoly, at least it comes on a reasonably level playing field, unlike with Dublin's success.

Fann Linn · 14-07-2019 01:52PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

Nah they'd want to sort out Leinster and Dublin's unfair advantages first. At least there is some semblance of competition in the Munster championship, not one unfairly favoured team bulldozing everyone else.

And if there is a duopoly, at least it comes on a reasonably level playing field, unlike with Dublin's success.

Yep. Split Connolly in two.

The Lost Sheep · 14-07-2019 07:10PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

Look there are a few simple steps the GAA can take to revitalise the inter- county game.

1. Split Dublin into four teams
2. Pool sponsorship money centrally and divide fairly among all counties.
3. Once Dublin are split, share central funding more fairly among counties rather than just giving the lion's share to the team with multiple other advantages.

Without splitting Dublin, even other steps like reducing the Games Development funds probably wouldn't make as much difference now- the damage has already been done. Dublin would need years of under- funding relative to everyone else for there to be even some hope of equality there.

Forcing Dublin to play away from their home in Croke Park more frequently, while also commendable, probably wouldn't make that much difference given how far ahead they are of everyone else.

you say divide sponsorship fairly? What exactly would be fair distribution of sponsorship?
Dublin has much larger population than most counties so obviously it will have highest number of development officers.
Splitting the county shouldn't happen but if it was to happen it should be only ever split in two. North and south of the liffey and nothing else.

blinding wrote: »

We have had that 10 years especially in the Leinster Championship. If the GAA don’t sort out the Farce that is the Dublin Football's Team ridiculous advantages soon they won’t need to be worrying about Inter County Football. Sport needs a somewhat fair competition. People need to believe their team has a reasonable chance. Otherwise it is not competitive sport.

sport isnt fair. Just like life isnt. Dublin is a very large county. It will always be dominant. For years Dublin gaa didn't have their act together and now they do but they wont be like this for long. Not possible.

gaffer91 · 14-07-2019 07:24PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you say divide sponsorship fairly? What exactly would be fair distribution of sponsorship?

I actually have a life outside the GAA and this forum- I haven't done fully costed proposals for your reading pleasure. I imagine fund distribution would more closely mimic GAA members, and to a lesser extent population, than it does currently, where Dublin are getting multiples of everyone else.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Splitting the county shouldn't happen but if it was to happen it should be only ever split in two. North and south of the liffey and nothing else.

It should happen and it should be four teams.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

sport isnt fair. Just like life isnt. Dublin is a very large county. It will always be dominant. For years Dublin gaa didn't have their act together and now they do but they wont be like this for long. Not possible.

Glad you accept the status quo is unfair. It won't always be dominant or it historically would have been. It will be like this indefinitely as all the necessary circumstances are in place for endless Dublin dominance.

The Lost Sheep · 14-07-2019 09:08PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

I actually have a life outside the GAA and this forum- I haven't done fully costed proposals for your reading pleasure. I imagine fund distribution would more closely mimic GAA members, and to a lesser extent population, than it does currently, where Dublin are getting multiples of everyone else.

ah dont be ridiculous. Dublin has far more GAA members than nearly every county and much more in population

It should happen and it should be four teams

why? How do you divide the county in 4. If any other county was doing well like this would you be calling for a county to be split.

Glad you accept the status quo is unfair. It won't always be dominant or it historically would have been. It will be like this indefinitely as all the necessary circumstances are in place for endless Dublin dominance.

no I said life isnt fair. There is nothing at all that can show that this will be endless for Dublin. They will drop down somewhat as the top players now finish up and next generations come in

Fann Linn · 14-07-2019 09:14PM

There are some here who would split Dublin into 8 or 12 if they got the chance. Swallowing bile and lemons come to mind.

Gavin's right, ' we have a squad of players who play for their county, parish and community'.

blanch152 · 14-07-2019 10:40PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

There are some here who would split Dublin into 8 or 12 if they got the chance. Swallowing bile and lemons come to mind.

Gavin's right, ' we have a squad of players who play for their county, parish and community'.

There are too many people who don't understand the purpose of Game Development. They think it is to enhance the inter-county team, but the reality is that it is used for increasing juvenile participation. Until they accept that, and we can move on to real issues that will help the inter-county game, the discussion is pointless.

blanch152 · 14-07-2019 11:25PM

Tomas O'Se made an interesting point about the Super 8s tonight. Said that the provincial winners should not have to play away. That would mean two home games and one neutral whether they play the other provincial winners.

RoyalCelt · 14-07-2019 11:51PM

blanch152 wrote: »

There are too many people who don't understand the purpose of Game Development. They think it is to enhance the inter-county team, but the reality is that it is used for increasing juvenile participation. Until they accept that, and we can move on to real issues that will help the inter-county game, the discussion is pointless.

Why can't Dublin spend some of their millions funding them? Why do the GAA need to pay 50%? Dublins GAA accounts show they have a big surplus every year so they clearly have the excess funds to do so. The GAA are bent over backwards for the Dubs the past 20 years.

I wouldn't split Dublin in 4 but it will have to be in 2. I also wouldn't split Dublin now while they're creating history. I'd let them do 10 or 11 in a row and see if they can catch Kerry's Sam total. But it will have to happen.

We could have a situation in 100 years where 50% of the population is in Dublin. It's not 1888 anymore. It could take 20 years to normalise North and South Dublin and maybe an AI win for each to get the fans fully behind it but when it becomes tradition it will be the GAA's biggest asset. The biggest Derby in Ireland and it would really capture the imagination of the capital. No more 30k/40k fans turning up for big games.

You'd also like to think North and South Dublin won't continue to steam roll everybody, especially in Leinster because otherwise we're ****ed. I can't see Dublin split more then two working. You'd imagine with Meath and Kildares populations continuing to grow they could compete most years with Dublin North or South.

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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