Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

Bob24 · 10-07-2019 06:59PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

We didn't have AML/KYC until recent history. The world got along just fine without it. That's what you've been sold. I don't expect to be in the majority view camp on this one - but it's highly unlikely I'll be seeing this any other way.

We didn’t have widely used and anonymous distributed ledgers until recent history either. New circumstances naturally call for new measures.

Also while I guess it depends how you define it, I don’t agree KYC is a new thing in the financial sector. Financial institutions have always done some level of ID and address check before opening bank accounts: what most crypto exchanges call KYC policies today is actually more lax than the customer check policies most old fashion retail banks have been enforcing in the past decades.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 10-07-2019 07:05PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

We didn't have AML/KYC until recent history. The world got along just fine without it. That's what you've been sold. I don't expect to be in the majority view camp on this one - but it's highly unlikely I'll be seeing this any other way.

Other than that, it goes far beyond annoyance. I could write a book on it but I'm not going to make disclosures here or take the discussion down that rabbit hole any further.

No my friend. You're very wrong on this one.

AML/KYC has been an excellent tool in combating money laundering. If you're paying attention you'd see that a great deal of prosecutions against criminals is through funds of unknown source prosecutions. Going after the money is how you catch these bad hombres.

While it probably annoys you that an exchange needs to verify your idetity before trading it also means bad dudes have to go through the same process. So stop posting ill informed garbage on it.

Dohnjoe · 10-07-2019 07:25PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

We didn't have AML/KYC until recent history. The world got along just fine without it. That's what you've been sold. I don't expect to be in the majority view camp on this one - but it's highly unlikely I'll be seeing this any other way.

I do get your point about the personal annoyance

It's been around for a long time in traditional banking and finance. Crypto is newer, but countless numbers of people have already been stung by dodgy unregulated non-compliant exchanges (I have, and was lucky not to lose more)

We can all sit here and say "don't put in more than you can afford to lose", "never leave your coins on exchange", etc, but if that's the case then widespread public acceptance will never come. Can't have both worlds. Thankfully common sense seems to be prevailing and crypto infrastructure is overwhelmingly moving toward KYC and AML compliance - as it should

Your personal annoyance with it is just that, personal. I hate security queues for planes, and I certainly don't like having to supply my passport and photo ID when joining a crypto exchange - but I understand the need for both.

makeorbrake · 10-07-2019 07:44PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I do get your point about the personal annoyance

It's been around for a long time in traditional banking and finance. Crypto is newer, but countless numbers of people have already been stung by dodgy unregulated non-compliant exchanges (I have, and was lucky not to lose more)

We can all sit here and say "don't put in more than you can afford to lose", "never leave your coins on exchange", etc, but if that's the case then widespread public acceptance will never come. Can't have both worlds. Thankfully common sense seems to be prevailing and crypto infrastructure is overwhelmingly moving toward KYC and AML compliance - as it should

Your personal annoyance with it is just that, personal. I hate security queues for planes, and I certainly don't like having to supply my passport and photo ID when joining a crypto exchange - but I understand the need for both.

I think we're meshing up two separate issues here. Presence or absence of KYC/AML doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the safety of your crypto or FIAT holdings with an exchange. Regulation and safeguards can be put in to deal with that - and they should.

Otherwise, KYC/AML - yes, at one level they're an annoyance. At another level, they can cause all manner of problems as I'm experiencing right now. I understand that most people don't see this but the moment you do, you'll know all about it.
Other than that, I don't think you seem to understand the implications in terms of privacy.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I hate security queues for planes, and I certainly don't like having to supply my passport and photo ID when joining a crypto exchange - but I understand the need for both.

That is a completely incorrect analogy. A physical security check boarding a plane doesn't compare with someone throwing up all manner of obstacles to the conduct of every day personal and business financial transactions.

My thoughts mirror that of Andreas Antonopoulos on this (see youtube video in previous post(s) ). We won't agree and that's perfectly fine but lets park it up at that.

Selik · 11-07-2019 12:16AM

Makeorbrake explain the issue you are having... is it to do with having to prove the source of original funds when withdrawing profits?

Pintman Paddy Losty · 11-07-2019 12:20AM

Most people have very few issues with KYC or AML checks. Must be a few red flags.

makeorbrake · 11-07-2019 12:35AM

Selik wrote: »

Makeorbrake explain the issue you are having... is it to do with having to prove the source of original funds when withdrawing profits?

I won't - as it's veering off topic. And particularly so as it doesn't involve crypto in any form ironically (and I say ironically because countless people in the crypto world have had issues with crypto to FIAT conversions - not because of the source of the funds, simply because the funds were in crypto).

JohnnyFlash · 11-07-2019 12:44AM

makeorbrake wrote: »

I won't - as it's veering off topic. And particularly so as it doesn't involve crypto in any form ironically (and I say ironically because countless people in the crypto world have had issues with crypto to FIAT conversions - not because of the source of the funds, simply because the funds were in crypto).

I thought getting out of Fiat was the goal of all this? Anonymous money sent between participants in a network where trust doesn’t matter?

el diablo · 11-07-2019 06:03AM

And we're crashing hard. XRP $0.33. LTC $98. ETH $265. :cool:

Bob24 · 11-07-2019 08:30AM

el diablo wrote: »

And we're crashing hard. XRP $0.33. LTC $98. ETH $265. :cool:

And still the same pattern: when bitcoin goes parabolic alt coins either follow fairly slowly or remain flat, and when bitcoin crashes they crash even harder.

vargoo · 11-07-2019 08:55AM

el diablo wrote: »

And we're crashing hard. XRP $0.33. LTC $98. ETH $265. :cool:

Ah no, tether bump is done so back down to where it settled after the whale sell off which must be 3 weeks ago now.

makeorbrake · 11-07-2019 08:55AM

Bob24 wrote: »

when bitcoin goes parabolic alt coins either follow fairly slowly or remain flat, and when bitcoin crashes they crash even harder.

It's not 2017 anymore. Alts have to do the hard yards and produce some utility. If that is happening/happens, then that will ultimately be rewarded (if the valuation isn't beyond itself already).

Having said that, there were a couple of industry commentators suggesting yesterday that the 'bottom' was in as far as alts are concerned and that we'd begin to see more of a lift with them by comparison with BTC.

Bob24 · 11-07-2019 09:21AM

makeorbrake wrote: »

It's not 2017 anymore. Alts have to do the hard yards and produce some utility. If that is happening/happens, then that will ultimately be rewarded (if the valuation isn't beyond itself already).

Having said that, there were a couple of industry commentators suggesting yesterday that the 'bottom' was in as far as alts are concerned and that we'd begin to see more of a lift with them by comparison with BTC.

On those comments saying the bottom is in, I can see how a handful of coins which are actually demonstrating some use case can emerge, but I would be surprised to see widespread value increases (but all this is very hard to predict and I could be wrong). One which I am watching is BNB, I think Binance are doing something interesting with it and their blockchain/DEX.

makeorbrake · 11-07-2019 09:34AM

Bob24 wrote: »

On those comments saying the bottom is in, I can see how a handful of coins which are actually demonstrating some use case can emerge, but I would be surprised to see widespread value increases (but all this is very hard to predict and I could be wrong).

Agree completely.

I don't bother with alts much - have one large cap alt and one micro (sub coinmarketcap) alt and that's it. With both of them, I'm not caring about price - so long as the fundamentals are being worked on actively, that's all I'm bothered about right now. Very much a long term hodl.

JJJJNR · 11-07-2019 09:37AM

makeorbrake wrote: »

It's not 2017 anymore. Alts have to do the hard yards and produce some utility. If that is happening/happens, then that will ultimately be rewarded (if the valuation isn't beyond itself already).

Having said that, there were a couple of industry commentators suggesting yesterday that the 'bottom' was in as far as alts are concerned and that we'd begin to see more of a lift with them by comparison with BTC.

Well XLM for one has hit ATL so I've just sold all my BTC into XLM. I've increase my bag by 30% by just holding BTC on the stellar dex. Will probably regret it but yolo.

Bob24 · 11-07-2019 10:13AM

JJJJNR wrote: »

Well XLM for one has hit ATL so I've just sold all my BTC into XLM. I've increase my bag by 30% by just holding BTC on the stellar dex. Will probably regret it but yolo.

So that we are clear, I presume you mean ATL since December 2017? (which is a big caveat as it was the beginning of the alt coin madness and before that XLM was lower that its current value)

Hope it works well for you, but selling one's complete BTC portfolio for XLM is a very bold and risky move IMO.

cnocbui · 11-07-2019 10:34AM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Most people have very few issues with KYC or AML checks. Must be a few red flags.

Many people have a massive problem with KYC. It's a stupid system that prevents lots of people from even opening a bank account.

JohnnyFlash · 11-07-2019 12:52PM

They’d want to start up the old Tether printer soon. People are starting to get edgy. I wonder what will happen if they get shutdown soon for fraud and money laundering?

My prediction is a sudden and violent spike in the price of Bitcoin, followed by a monumental crash as people desperately try and get out of coins and back into that lovely FIAT money.

The court case is on July 29th. Could be epic.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 11-07-2019 01:06PM

What's the ideal amount of BTC to HODL I wonder.

Trying to plan my exit for 2-5 years time. Obviously won't exit it there's mass adoption.

JJJJNR · 11-07-2019 01:18PM

Bob24 wrote: »

So that we are clear, I
presume you mean ATL since December 2017? (which is a big caveat as it was the beginning of the alt coin madness and before that XLM was lower that its current value)

Hope it works well for you, but selling one's complete BTC portfolio for XLM is a very bold and risky move IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EcjWd-O4jI

vargoo · 11-07-2019 01:38PM

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

What's the ideal amount of BTC to HODL I wonder.

Trying to plan my exit for 2-5 years time. Obviously won't exit it there's mass adoption.

How much money have you lying around that you don't mind losing?

Start selling everything now that you bought under current price, use any profit you have buy more on a real dip, not the fake dips you're currently buying on.

makeorbrake · 11-07-2019 02:20PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Many people have a massive problem with KYC. It's a stupid system that prevents lots of people from even opening a bank account.

Agreed. And as regards Podge n' Rodge, I've finally done what I should have done months ago and enabled the boards.ie ignore list function. I missed that insightful morsel of speculation. I'd wager that's what he hopes but alas, he's as far out as a lighthouse (as usual).

stockshares · 11-07-2019 02:37PM

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) have approved Blockstack’s Reg A+ application to issue an allocation of its so-called Stacks Token (STX) in a public securities offering, the first-ever time the financial watchdog has greenlighted the issuance of a crypto token.

https://blog.blockstack.org/blockstack-token-sale-sec-qualified/

q85dw7osi4lebg · 11-07-2019 03:26PM

vargoo wrote: »

How much money have you lying around that you don't mind losing?

Start selling everything now that you bought under current price, use any profit you have buy more on a real dip, not the fake dips you're currently buying on.

Can't sell any, promised myself I'd HODL. Have been DCA ing for a long time now but trying to know

1: When to stop

2: When and how to get out

Initial thought is to maybe sell 5% of a coin every time BTC increases 10k, starting at 20k.

Want to still be holding decent coin after 100k though.

The world needs dreamers.

vargoo · 11-07-2019 04:08PM

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

Can't sell any, promised myself I'd HODL. Have been DCA ing for a long time now but trying to know

1: When to stop

2: When and how to get out

Initial thought is to maybe sell 5% of a coin every time BTC increases 10k, starting at 20k.

Want to still be holding decent coin after 100k though.

The world needs dreamers.

Throw a thought in there that it might never see 20k again.

Dohnjoe · 11-07-2019 04:14PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Many people have a massive problem with KYC. It's a stupid system that prevents lots of people from even opening a bank account.

It's mildly inconvenient and in fairness haven't heard of some crisis where "lots of" people are unable to open bank accounts due to KYC. It's been a strict requirement for a long time for common sense reasons.

Go join Revolut, it's simple. Also crypto exchanges are easy to join even with KYC (I've joined about 25 exchanges give or take) - there's a lot of moaning over nothing going on here I feel

q85dw7osi4lebg · 11-07-2019 04:21PM

vargoo wrote: »

Throw a thought in there that it might never see 20k again.

i don't even think that's a possibility.

Bob24 · 11-07-2019 04:33PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

cnocbui wrote: »

Many people have a massive problem with KYC. It's a stupid system that prevents lots of people from even opening a bank account.

It's mildly inconvenient and in fairness haven't heard of some crisis where "lots of" people are unable to open bank accounts due to KYC. It's been a strict requirement for a long time for common sense reasons.

Go join Revolut, it's simple. Also crypto exchanges are easy to join even with KYC (I've joined about 25 exchanges give or take) - there's a lot of moaning over nothing going on here I feel

I also feel people are talking about something completely different from what exchanges call KYC. Basically in practice we are talking about sharing a scanned copy of an ID document and a proof of address, which is not exactly very hard to do (and if people don’t trust an exchange with handling these documents properly - which is how I would feel about many exchanges - they just shouldn’t register with an exchange they don’t trust).

I am sure sometimes people get stuck because something looks unusual with their documents and customer service is not very helpful, but I doubt there are widespread issues with this and it is more an issue with poor customer service than with KYC issues.

If would be good if people who have severe issues with KYC gave more specific exemples whereby they have concerns. Then we could have a discussion about these concerns and see if there is a difference of opinion about validity.

Just vaguely stating that there are many issues with KYC policies without giving specific exemples makes it hard to actually engage and maybe understand their concerns (or just disagree that they are valid concerns).

makeorbrake · 11-07-2019 04:45PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's mildly inconvenient and in fairness haven't heard of some crisis where "lots of" people are unable to open bank accounts due to KYC. It's been a strict requirement for a long time for common sense reasons.
there's a lot of moaning over nothing going on here I feel

Bob24 wrote: »

I also feel people are talking about something completely different from what exchanges call KYC. Basically in practice we are talking about sharing a scanned copy of an ID document and a proof of address, which is not exactly very hard to do

These are your experiences. Your mileage will vary. This is handled very differently in different jurisdictions.

Secondly, you say its nothing but there is NO shadow of a doubt that KYC/AML is major friction in on-boarding people into the crypto-sphere. Ask anyone in the ecomm world how major a factor abandoned carts are. Usually abandoned due to some small inconvenience. Now consider someone that might have at one stage considered trying to obtain Bitcoin for payment (or maybe for investment purposes). These may be minor inconveniences to you - but clearly they're not to these people because there is no doubt in my mind, hundreds of thousands have left it behind because they don't want to deal with that nonsense.

I personally know of cases where people were offering a service with payment solely via crypto - and the friction that caused. Of course, part of it is because crypto needs to be made far more user friendly - but the moment people have to go scrambling for documentation, then unless their involvement is vital, they'll bail.

Over and above all that, I agree with Antonopolous that it's financial surveillance and it doesn't need to happen. It prevents little in the way of money laundering. Those guys know exactly how the system works and contrive the paperwork to match.

The world will not implode without it. There will be no less 'terrorist' attacks and what not because of it. We all know that privacy is an issue - but none of us are motivated to go the long way round to deal with it (and take the convenience option instead). However, with an ever increasing digital world - this is going to become a much hotter potato and I'd expect some people at least to wake up to it.

vargoo · 11-07-2019 05:00PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's mildly inconvenient and in fairness haven't heard of some crisis where "lots of" people are unable to open bank accounts due to KYC. It's been a strict requirement for a long time for common sense reasons.

Go join Revolut, it's simple. Also crypto exchanges are easy to join even with KYC (I've joined about 25 exchanges give or take) - there's a lot of moaning over nothing going on here I feel

25...wtf for???

Im in 2, i wouldn't open a 3rd.

Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

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