Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

q85dw7osi4lebg

grindle wrote: »

Click on the amoral criminal's username, bottom of the list is the 'ignore' option.

Thanks a mill that's his two accounts gone now.

Woke Hogan

cnocbui wrote: »

Shut up you <epithet>.

Bitcoin is up 4.14% in 24 hours. It's a volatile and risky investment. I and others know that. You are contributing nothing of value to anyone with your stuck record of endless negativity.

"investment?"

I thought it was a currency???

makeorbrake

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

Thanks a mill that's his two accounts gone now.

You have one more to add ;-)

cnocbui

Woke Hogan wrote: »

"investment?"

I thought it was a currency???

I don't view it as a currency, though I have used is as such. I view at as being more akin to gold - a relatively finite substance limited in quantity that doesn't corrode and is fairly immutable and which has some useful properties.

Since I am currently up 787 %, I'd call that an 'investment'. You are free to disagree.

Woke Hogan

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't view it as a currency, though I have used is as such. I view at as being more akin to gold - a relatively finite substance limited in quantity that doesn't corrode and is fairly immutable and which has some useful properties.

Since I am currently up 787 %, I'd call that an 'investment'. You are free to disagree.

Yeah but gold exists, mate. Cryptocurrencies are magic coins plucked out of mid air. Beany Babies have more value than those.

Blueshoe

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Yeah but gold exists, mate. Cryptocurrencies are magic coins plucked out of mid air. Beany Babies have more value than those.

Yet bitcoin is worth over 12k usd today

JohnnyFlash

Blueshoe wrote: »

Yet bitcoin is worth over 12k usd today

https://decrypt.co/7795/investigators-tether-loaned-usdt-to-investors-illegally-traded-in-new-york-ran-an-unregistered-securities-offering

Blueshoe

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

https://decrypt.co/7795/investigators-tether-loaned-usdt-to-investors-illegally-traded-in-new-york-ran-an-unregistered-securities-offering

What happens next?

sabat

cnocbui wrote: »

I view at as being more akin to gold - a relatively finite substance limited in quantity

Literally anyone in the world with a pc can repeat the exact same bitcoin exercise as the "accepted one" right now.

cnocbui

My beany babies are worth nearly 8 times what I paid for them.

I'll tell you what - log into your online banking and look at your balance - a bunch of numbers on a computer somewhere; supposedly. Refresh the page in a way that doesn't log you out, say every 5 minutes for the next five years. I'll then ask you what your balance is and tell you whether my beanie babies have fared better or worse than your bunch of numbers on a computer somewhere (supposedly).

Pi doesn't exist - it's just an idea someone thought up. Funny thing is, it's actually been of some use, down through the ages. I wonder if someone could actually work out what this nonexistent and fictitious number has been worth?

I have owned gold, platinum and silver in real physical form. Bitcoin has outperformed them as an investment, for me, imaginary or not. I'm happy.

grindle

sabat wrote: »

Literally anyone in the world with a pc can repeat the exact same bitcoin exercise as the "accepted one" right now.

Do it. Get people to value it for some reason.
Simple. You get rich, people have magic beans they want.
Win/Win

JohnnyFlash

Blueshoe wrote: »

What happens next?

The NYAG is saying they believe Tether was created out of thin air, then sent to exchanges where it was used to inflate the price of bitcoin. So they are buying bitcoin with fake money, while suckers are investing with real money. They then sell the bitcoin for real money and pocket the cash. That’s fraud.

The daily volume of Tether overtook bitcoin today. Which is remarkable. It’s being used to keep the price of bitcoin artificially up. They’ll clear out the longs, then crash the price to make some real money from the good folks who buy in due to FOMO.

https://i.redd.it/fqxsf5iuj3931.png

cnocbui

sabat wrote: »

Literally anyone in the world with a pc can repeat the exact same bitcoin exercise as the "accepted one" right now.

No they can't. There's the little matter of a large network of active miners and a market where people agree on and ascribe 'value'.

My house and land are worth nothing, without other people agreeing that they actually do have value.

Gold and diamonds have no value whatsoever outside of humans collectively agreeing that they do.

sabat

grindle wrote: »

Do it. Get people to value it for some reason.
Simple. You get rich, people have magic beans they want.
Win/Win

I'm just debunking one of bitcoin's foundation myths that it is a physical item with a finite supply. What the zealots are really saying is "our bitcoin has a finite supply" much like their ultimate enemies the central banksters stating that their currency is the real currency.

Bob24

makeorbrake wrote: »

I've never been happy with the Tether situation. However, what the disclosure of documents has shown us is that through all that time when they were said to be underfunded, they actually were fully funded.

[...]

By comparison with fractional reserve banking, it's nothing. That still leaves it as a risk and the lack of transparency is a risk. In a recent interview, Phil Potter (former CSO) claims that auditors won't engage with them. Complete auditing is what is missing the whole time.

Without that, it remains a risk - albeit at least it is becoming much less significant in the space as a whole.

As regards the unmentionable one's claim of a 'big story', they have been forced to work with whatever banking partners they can muster. The over-reach of the yanks is sickening. And as regards New York. Ask anyone in crypto/blockchain what they think of the regulatory regime in New York!


The Real Big Story.

18,000 people walking out the door in London and New York courtesy of Deutsche Bank. We haven't had that since 26,000 people walked out of Lehman Bros. carrying boxes.

It is hard to comment on the rest of the Tether situation as there simply isn’t enough publicly available information, but on the Tether/Binfinex loan I think this was something simply unacceptable and a huge mistake IMO.

As you said, on its own it is much less that fractional banking, but:
1. Tether is not a bank and not regulated as such.
2. Most importantly it destroyed their credibility in terms of claiming their have full USD backing for all Tethers.

In any case, while I think we all agree to say their could well be something dodgy about Bitfinex and Tether, even if it was the case I am not sure it is something which could actually destroy the crypto space or bitcoin valuation as some people thing. As a matter of fact, if Tether was to be found out to be a scam and to collapse, there would be no reason for it to alter confidence in the bitcoin blockchain - quite the opposite as the blockchain itself wouldn’t have been corrupted and issues would have been with a private actor and lack of oversight over its FIAT currency reserves. So to go back to your post, I wouldn’t say Tether is a potential Lehman Brothers of crytpo :-) (it might or might not be as dodgy as Lehman Brothers, but I tend to doubt its collapse would have the same systemic impact)

sabat

cnocbui wrote: »

No they can't. There's the little matter of a large network of active miners and a market where people agree on and ascribe 'value'.

OK then. Literally anyone can create a large network of miners and a market using the exact same protocol as the original. I was referring specifically to the matter of supply, the supposed limit of which you used as one of bitcoin's properties which give it value.

cnocbui

sabat wrote: »

OK then. Literally anyone can create a large network of miners and a market using the exact same protocol as the original. I was referring specifically to the matter of supply, the supposed limit of which you used as one of bitcoin's properties which give it value.

You can't see the wood, for the trees.

Blueshoe

Bob24 wrote: »

It is hard to comment on the rest of the Tether situation as there simply isn’t enough publicly available information, but on the Tether/Binfinex loan I think this was something simply unacceptable and a huge mistake IMO.

As you said, on its own it is much less that fractional banking, but:
1. Tether is not a bank and not regulated as such.
2. Most importantly it destroyed their credibility in terms of claiming their have full USD backing for all Tethers.

In any case, while I think we all agree to say their could well be something dodgy about Bitfinex and Tether, even if it was the case I am not sure it is something which could actually destroy the crypto space or bitcoin valuation as some people thing. As a matter of fact, if Tether was to be found out to be a scam and to collapse, there would be no reason for it to alter confidence in the bitcoin blockchain - quite the opposite as the blockchain itself wouldn’t have been corrupted and issues would have been with a private actor and lack of oversight over its FIAT currency reserves. So to go back to your post, I wouldn’t say Tether is a potential Lehman Brothers of crytpo :-) (it might or might not be as dodgy as Lehman Brothers, but I tend to doubt its collapse would have the same systemic impact)

Does anyone really care about the bitcoin Blockchain though?

I would wager the majority of people only care about the bitcoin/USD market and trying to make a few Bob.
Some of the altcoin projects are interesting but most of their valuations are speculation and not much else.

I'm in it to try make a few quid. I couldn't give a toss about Blockchain

Blueshoe

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The NYAG is saying they believe Tether was created out of thin air, then sent to exchanges where it was used to inflate the price of bitcoin. So they are buying bitcoin with fake money, while suckers are investing with real money. They then sell the bitcoin for real money and pocket the cash. That’s fraud.

The daily volume of Tether overtook bitcoin today. Which is remarkable. It’s being used to keep the price of bitcoin artificially up. They’ll clear out the longs, then crash the price to make some real money from the good folks who buy in due to FOMO.

https://i.redd.it/fqxsf5iuj3931.png

That's interesting. If indeed it turns out to be true and is circulated as such what effect do you feel it will have on bitcoin/USD price.

I'm open to all views.

Bob24

Blueshoe wrote: »

Does anyone really care about the bitcoin Blockchain though?

I would wager the majority of people only care about the bitcoin/USD market and trying to make a few Bob.
Some of the altcoin projects are interesting but most of their valuations are speculation and not much else.

I'm in it to try make a few quid. I couldn't give a toss about Blockchain

To clarify what I meant: even if Tether collapses, the Bitcoin blockchain won’t be affected in the slightest and as a consequence no one will lose bitcoins. So sure many people do not care about the Bitcoin blockchain as a technological object, but they very much care for the fact that it is reliably keeping track of their holdings and can’t be affected be the failing of a dodgy actor in the industry.

stockshares

After the Tether print BTC is up to €12500 which is €1200 up on yesterday.

How big will the pump be this time. I notice that almost all ALTs are way down.

Given the Tether news is anyone here buying Bitcoin

q85dw7osi4lebg

stockshares wrote: »

After the Tether print BTC is up to €12500 which is €1200 up on yesterday.

How big will the pump be this time. I notice that almost all ALTs are way down.

Given the Tether news is anyone here buying Bitcoin

I'm buying most days including today, but I'm a madman.

makeorbrake

Bob24 wrote: »

It is hard to comment on the rest of the Tether situation as there simply isn’t enough publicly available information, but on the Tether/Binfinex loan I think this was something simply unacceptable and a huge mistake IMO.

They've had to improvise several times to survive. All of this is because they've had the carpet (banking) pulled out from under them several times.

That's not to say that I trust them (the whole idea of crypto is to assume no trust). I'm uneasy with a scenario where the sector is made vulnerable in this way.

Bob24 wrote: »

As you said, on its own it is much less that fractional banking, but:
1. Tether is not a bank and not regulated as such.
2. Most importantly it destroyed their credibility in terms of claiming their have full USD backing for all Tethers.

I don't disagree with either of those points.

Bob24 wrote: »

In any case, while I think we all agree to say their could well be something dodgy about Bitfinex and Tether, even if it was the case I am not sure it is something which could actually destroy the crypto space or bitcoin valuation as some people thing. As a matter of fact, if Tether was to be found out to be a scam and to collapse, there would be no reason for it to alter confidence in the bitcoin blockchain - quite the opposite as the blockchain itself wouldn’t have been corrupted and issues would have been with a private actor and lack of oversight over its FIAT currency reserves.

Go back 12 months and the sector was far more vulnerable to a complete Tether/Bitfinex collapse. However, whilst it's less so. Don't underestimate it. If you're holding crypto at that moment, it's significant enough that you're going to be taking a bath. It would be a confidence buster in the sector and would take a while for it to pick itself up and dust itself off.

The problem is that Tether plays an important role - that's needed in the sector (given the insanity with FIAT on/off ramping). If it could provide transparency that could put everyone at ease. It's hard to tease out the truth but I'd imagine there's some battle going on there between the U.S. and Bitfinex/Tether ...someone wants info sharing as regards some of their customers most likely and they're not playing ball...and maybe they can't get an auditor as they claim (as part of that complete sh1tshow).

Bob24 wrote: »

So to go back to your post, I wouldn’t say Tether is a potential Lehman Brothers of crytpo :-) (it might or might not be as dodgy as Lehman Brothers, but I tend to doubt its collapse would have the same systemic impact)

That's a misunderstanding of what I posted. I was referring to the near collapse of Deutsche Bank - with them announcing job cuts of 18,000 people. I compared that to Lehman Bros. - who closed the doors and in the process let go 26,000 people. Tether is but a minor squibble comparitively ...yet the unmentionable one can only post negativity after negativity relative to the crypto/blockchain sector.

makeorbrake

sabat wrote: »

I'm just debunking one of bitcoin's foundation myths that it is a physical item with a finite supply. What the zealots are really saying is "our bitcoin has a finite supply" much like their ultimate enemies the central banksters stating that their currency is the real currency.

Lets 'debunk' your 'bunkum', shall we? WHO here claims that Bitcoin is a physical item?

As regards finite supply, it quite clearly has - and if you don't understand that, then you've spent no more than 10 minutes trying to work out what Bitcoin is.

You are trying to suggest that all blockchain networks are one and the same. Start one tomorrow and see who will give you more than a packet of Tayto for those tokens.

There has been some debate here as regards what is technologically superior, etc. That's a valid discussion but this is not the one that you have taken up with here. Given the nascent state of cryptocurrency, there's a possibility that Bitcoin could lose favour but there will have to be real tangible reasons as to why it's unseated. Not the 'all blockchain tokens' are the same mantra you're running with.
'
As to physical items with finite supply, Bitcoin's supply is more finite than gold.

Blueshoe wrote: »

Does anyone really care about the bitcoin Blockchain though?

Plenty do. There are plenty working with the tech that don't bother with this speculative sh1tshow. I came to appreciate it in 2013 and it never dawned on me that there would be a speculative angle to it or that I'd get caught up in that. It has plenty of other facets - both in terms of cryptocurrency and for use in token economies.

Blueshoe wrote: »

I would wager the majority of people only care about the bitcoin/USD market and trying to make a few Bob.

There's no doubt that there's a large chunk of people who only have a speculative interest in it, yes. If there is a group that don't and they're the ones building out the tech, then it matters not to my mind if theres less of them. I'll take less smarter minds doing more progressive work all day every day.

Blueshoe wrote: »

I'm in it to try make a few quid. I couldn't give a toss about Blockchain

As much by accident as anything else, I find myself on both sides of that fence. However, more power to you - if that's what you're doing. There's nothing wrong with that either - nobody is holding a gun to your head - it's your choice.

Blueshoe wrote: »

That's interesting. If indeed it turns out to be true and is circulated as such what effect do you feel it will have on bitcoin/USD price.
I'm open to all views.

YOU are open to all views, yes. You'll get nothing in the way of practical outlook though. The only outlook that gets regurgitated from that source is how appalling everything is in the sector. He won't even act on this info and back his claims and short the market.
The tether thing has always been a concern. You'll see the market hasn't reacted today - because this is nothing new - it's ongoing and has been linked to every surge. I'm not alright with that but it is what it is. There are also some good long term fundamentals which I see as solid for crypto. Each to their own but don't hold out for 'open views' in this instance (from said source).

Grumpypants

Lads we started this excited thread to get away from all this boring trolling. Take it to the worried thread.

vargoo

Grumpypants wrote: »

Lads we started this excited thread to get away from all this boring trolling. Take it to the worried thread.

A bit of sally up loud fixes everything!

vargoo

LOUDER!

Bob24

makeorbrake wrote: »

That's a misunderstanding of what I posted. I was referring to the near collapse of Deutsche Bank - with them announcing job cuts of 18,000 people. I compared that to Lehman Bros. - who closed the doors and in the process let go 26,000 people. Tether is but a minor squibble comparitively ...yet the unmentionable one can only post negativity after negativity relative to the crypto/blockchain sector.

Sure I didn’t mean to imply you directly compared Tether and Lehman Brothers. But since you mentioned it, just my own statement that IMO while Tether might be as dodgy as Lehman Brothers was, i don’t see its eventual failure to have the same impact on crypto as Lehman’s had on global financial markets.

Blueshoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

Lets 'debunk' your 'bunkum', shall we? WHO here claims that Bitcoin is a physical item?

As regards finite supply, it quite clearly has - and if you don't understand that, then you've spent no more than 10 minutes trying to work out what Bitcoin is.

You are trying to suggest that all blockchain networks are one and the same. Start one tomorrow and see who will give you more than a packet of Tayto for those tokens.

There has been some debate here as regards what is technologically superior, etc. That's a valid discussion but this is not the one that you have taken up with here. Given the nascent state of cryptocurrency, there's a possibility that Bitcoin could lose favour but there will have to be real tangible reasons as to why it's unseated. Not the 'all blockchain tokens' are the same mantra you're running with.
'
As to physical items with finite supply, Bitcoin's supply is more finite than gold.



Plenty do. There are plenty working with the tech that don't bother with this speculative sh1tshow. I came to appreciate it in 2013 and it never dawned on me that there would be a speculative angle to it or that I'd get caught up in that. It has plenty of other facets - both in terms of cryptocurrency and for use in token economies.


There's no doubt that there's a large chunk of people who only have a speculative interest in it, yes. If there is a group that don't and they're the ones building out the tech, then it matters not to my mind if theres less of them. I'll take less smarter minds doing more progressive work all day every day.


As much by accident as anything else, I find myself on both sides of that fence. However, more power to you - if that's what you're doing. There's nothing wrong with that either - nobody is holding a gun to your head - it's your choice.

YOU are open to all views, yes. You'll get nothing in the way of practical outlook though. The only outlook that gets regurgitated from that source is how appalling everything is in the sector. He won't even act on this info and back his claims and short the market.
The tether thing has always been a concern. You'll see the market hasn't reacted today - because this is nothing new - it's ongoing and has been linked to every surge. I'm not alright with that but it is what it is. There are also some good long term fundamentals which I see as solid for crypto. Each to their own but don't hold out for 'open views' in this instance (from said source).

Good post. No attacking opposing personal views. If you are interested in the technology too fair play. Both on the same side

q85dw7osi4lebg

I have been using cards to buy crypto with coinbase. Yesterday at about 7pm I made a transfer for the first time from my bank account, just got confirmation that the funds are in account now. That's incredible. Takes me longer to transfer between two Irish banks.