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WereWolf: A 13 player Seer game
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G&R did the same after Trits munch as far as I can remember. Would the wolves be silly enough to do that twice?
Yeah, agree. I also noticed how he picked apart nearly every piece of what I wrote, sometimes outright lying in his statements (eg: he called them prepared, which they weren't, and surely obviously so), yet he ignored that piece.Em I don't think you can ever play the effort card again QB
Yeah, okay, I'll give you that one
Sorta 
As a wolf though I've put in loads of effort to build cases against my specific targets. Instead of dropping potential good mislynches in favour of finding others (in the scenario of me being a wolf and Whippy and Duffman being the mislynches). I get though that past history doesn't bode well with me, but you'll see when game is over that I'm speaking true this time at least.Considering how close we are to end game - if you are a villager then you really need to fight being mis-lynched as it is too close!
Yes. She really does. She's pleading her innocence, but not really proving her case, or finding alternatives for us. I really wish she would if she is a Villager. I don't want a mislynch and go in to LYLO.0 -
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Wanted to look in detail at the Baggly/GnR interactionI don't think sm is a wolf.Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »You are
Strawbs fingers Baggly as a potential wold right before deathI’m heading off line. Trit, I don’t expect to see you again, very strange play, I’ll be delighted to see how you flip tomorrow morning
GnR posts his slip pre lynchSlip.
Baggly instantly calls him out on itBaggly. Disappeared. Then magically show up right at lunch to tell us we're wrong. Very Dodge
Bagglys response to being missing for the eveningI just finished reffing.
Probably Bagglys pointing of the finger prompted the peek.My point was more about waiting to see what way he flips....if you're munched then you're not a wolf.Right so that answers that then. Im back in the office today, so will be online more.
Lets be hearing the issues people have with me being busy in RL.
His wolfy preprepard postPre-prepared post, so I don’t know who is munched
Sorry Strawbs, but I had to go on the ISOs I did yesterday and yours screamed wolf, it was an independent analysis. It was obviously strong enough to make other people think the same but obviously now I know you were village.
Tusks behaviour yesterday at Lynch time was very suspicious BUT when I read QBs post that it was too chaotic to be a wolf it rang true with me.
I expect Trit is gone by now, there’s no way the wolves leave him alive in my opinion, if he is alive then he’s a wolf or being set-up.
Lads, obviously if he’s munched then he’s village but was he village village or seer village? That was my question. It would explain his behaviour which I called out as strange all day yesterday.
This is a more dangerous post, right at the death calling someone out over nothing so that people could think over-night that I was a wolf. It wasn’t a slip Baggly, I want to know what Trits role is, it’ll answer a lot of questions for me. I’m sure if he is the seer it’ll make your life a lot easier.
Most wolfie post to date
Fence sitting with Whippy. Odd choice of words no? Or is just me!Not a surprise that Trit is dead, good work goading the munch.
Whippy, it brings you back into the rest of the group, nothing more or less
Means the seer has a second night’s info. Good news for the village
Down at a conference in Cork today so I’ll have very limited time
Baggly going hard at him againGNR, your persuit of Trit was madness. It was self resolving. Your focus on it yesterday was a detriment to the village. Your time and energy (and post count) for D1 coming down, at the end of the day, to whether Trit is a wolf or not just belies the fact you dont want to pin your colours to any other mast.
Thats compounded by the above post where Ecto and I questions your persuit of Trits flip and are wolfy or 'Most wolfie post to date'.
You have been overly defensive straight off the bat and have chosen to focus on a self resolving issue. Explain to me how that is village behaviour.
This is in response to QB who seems to have bypassed the potential slip by GnRHumour me and give me the reasons you suspect me, QB (im assuming me suspecting you is one of them?).
Responding GnRStrawbs was never a wolf. I only logged in close to lynch for a speed read and could (and did) tell you that.
She only curses when a mislynch is about to happen on her.
Shes still on BagglyI gave my reasons for you yesterday, and, as above, you haven't allayed any since then.
Defending himself against TuskIts as simple as this: I know im village, so the people pushing after me based on....what?......are pushing for a mislynch. Ill be proven right if lynched, and ye 3 (GNR, Tusk, QB) will have questions to answer because im not seeing people lay out why they suss me.
Tusk can point to me getting online just before lynch, but he sussed me long before that; but hasnt outlined why.
Its also coincidental those same people are ones i have accused of being wolfy first. Very defensive people here in this game.Thats why im asking you to humour me to discuss them.
GnR fighting the "good" fightI said repeatedly I thought Trit wasn’t the wolf. To me it was obvious if he wasn’t a wolf then the wolves HAD to munch him. I also said repeatedly that I didn’t think he was the seer but by keeping it to the forefront I feel I helped in forcing them to munch him “just in case”.
That to me is helpful to the village
What’s not helpful is coming on just before the thread closes and accusing someone of slipping when there is blatantly, and I mean absolutely zero chance, of it being a wolf slip?
That is what a wolf does, they plant a seed and let it germinate and grow
Baggly felt GnR was fixated on somethingMy point is you spent all day yesterday posting and what you focus on before EOD is Trit? It was self resolving. Why not focus on something else? It seems deflectory to me.
I wasnt available to post before then! I post when i can!! It wasnt a wolf slip, it was a slip in judgement. It wasnt you misposting on thread instead of your BR, but it was a misthought post.
GnR really unhappy with the slip post nowFor me at least this is an untruth, don’t know if it’s deliberate or not. But I did an ISO of you yesterday evening where I sat on the fence. I’m sure you’ve read it so I don’t know why you’re ignoring it here.
My issue is with your slip post, it’s wolfie AFOh and that seed planting thing is the same thing you have accused me of previously. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. And, as it happens, thats not what the wolves did in the games you accused me in. So your whole thesis on wolves is way off, imo.Where did i say it was deliberate?What exactly was I deflecting? Like specifically? I had nothing to deflect. I felt one of Tusk or Strawbs were being lynched, both in my FFA so I couldn’t have possibly been deflecting.
Baggly you’re just making stuff up about me and my motivesDeflecting attention off yourself.U misunderstand me, I said I don’t know if your telling untruths is deliberate or not. You’ve read my ISO I’m sure but you’re misrepresenting my posts.
Are you doing that deliberately?Its an online game where we have imperfect info and have to speculate as to the intentions of other players. Of course im speculating as to your motives GNR. You are doing the same to everyone else.Why would your thoughts on me have any impact on my thoughts of you?But there was little or no attention on me my lynch? I don’t think anyone voted for me? People can read for themselves, they’ll see that’s the caseEquating votes to attention is wrong. You were under scrutiny earlier in the day and i suspect your focus on Trit was to allay that earlier attention and lay groundwork for today (which has worked).Right I really have to listen to what’s going on here!
I’m exhausted after going at it with QB yesterday, I don’t have the energy for it today!
I also don’t believe you think I’m a wolf but I’m argumentative and we’re getting drawn into it with each other.Yeah but im ahipster Tusk accuser. I was doing it before it was cool.So hold on, you werent getting attention yesterday, but at the same time, QB gave you a hard time. Mask is slipping GNR.It’s a fairly decent metric of attention in fairness
What ground work am I laying for today? Trit is dead!The only thing I’ve done today is call you out for your slip post yesterday so I could hardly have been doing ground work for that!Lol which you knew was going to happen, as a wolf! So you post a pre-prepared post noting 'lol i dont know who is gonna die yolo', which has totally come around to you knowing Trit is good, when you spent yesterday unsure about the idea.
Well thats not true. You posted your prepared post too!
Big response from QB to some accusations against Baggly who wanted further evidence. I like the investigative angle but not touching GnR stillAlright Baggly, I've gathered some previous posts.
Firstly, there's your jumping on Trit's claim. You weren't the first to do it, that was GnR. But you were second, six minutes after GnR, in post 25, and you kept on about it: post 31, 33, 39, 44.
In post 44 you even said that Trit's plan was never going to work. Well, hey, look at that, he got munched so it did work!
So, okay, I'll admit that that alone isn't reason somebody might be a wolf. So, we go on to your reasons for thinking I'm a wolf.
Then late,r in your FFA, repeating what you said above:
It's weak-ass. So weak you couldn't even come up with a third. As a villager I find it hard to come up with FFA lists myself, but doubly so as a wolf. The accusation on myself stood out as I know I'm a villager. I countered it with:
You never even responded to that. You said I'd changed tact after my 10,000 when some pressure started being laid on me. I absolutely didn't. I'd been productive for at least 18 out of 24 of my pre-10,000 posts. And I continued to be productive afterwards, while still trying to enjoy myself.
This isn't a vendetta. If it was, I'd be ignoring you and focusing on Kolido who actually voted for me last night (that may come yet). We all are a bit self-centred so your weak-ass FFA on me struck me more than Kitten's weak-ass FFA on Ecto, but when she (Ecto) pointed it out, I agreed with her on the similarity. So again, there's a case where someone (Kitten) wasn't attacking me, but I still think her wolfy. It's not personal.
However, I will say this, when looking for above posts, I came across the below from Kitten. Players can click to see the context, but it implies that Kitten thinks Baggly and Tusk could be on a team together. This *could* dissuade me from Kitten and Baggly both being wolves. I've nothing concrete yet, but it's something I've noted.
His responseGreat! Thank you!
So on your first point. I said his plan to persuade people there were multiple seers wouldnt work. And it didnt. So you have taken that way out of context. Bad start for your ISO.
Second point. FFAs. So i didnt change my mind on my suss of you, and that wolfy? I didnt have a strong third candidate at the time, so i didnt put a token one forward. Explain how that is wolfy.
Third point. You did change tact. You got aggressive. Thats not you unless you have something to hide. You tried productivity and i accused you anyway. You saw i thought you were wolfy and switched from productivity to aggression to try to dissuade me from sussing you.
So imo, thats three main points that have you suss of me which ignore the context of what i was saying. How is that productive or useful?This is fair. Though I did ask initially for everyone's opinion on whether we were racing or not, but got no firm answer and as I was running out of time, I asked Sully as she had been the one to compile the FFAs. I'm not "on board" with doing what Sully says, but she was as good as any for an opinion since everyone else seemed to be "on board" with her compiling the FFAs. In the end I went with my own gut and didn't vote for those in the race, mainly because GnR had dissuaded me from being a wolf by that time and I had no strong inclination for anyone else in the race, especially not Strawbs, or myself!
Yeah, it is a bit wolfy to stick to your guns and not be flexible with your opinions on players. When I'd provided you with evidence that you were wrong, you didn't consider it and make an adjustment, or even comment about how my evidence wasn't good enough to dissuade you. And absolutely, not giving a third is a sign of being a wolf (not proof positive, I grant), but villagers had 12 people to choose from for our FFAs. Wolves, effectively had only 10, so it makes it harder to make up reasons against people that you *know* are not wolves. I've had plenty of experience of being a wolf, especially of late, so believe me, I know the difficulty in compiling FFAs as one.
I would really like some evidence of my change in tact. I didn't even get aggressive to your first accusation. I just said "you are wrong" (hell, if it was Clara she'd be accusing me of being a wolf for being too smooth with my response there - can't win!!). It was when you came down with information that was spurious that I countered. I argued strongly perhaps, but I was not aggressive. It's a game, which I enjoy playing, why would I be getting aggressive about it?
First reference to the GnR slip post and its very neutralGnR, could you explain, in baby-words, your feelings about Baggly and the "slip" post. I don't really understand where you're coming from with that.
You'll notice, Baggly, that I haven't included any of the "slip" stuff in my own suspicions of you.Fair enough re; the following Sully explanation (i suppose). Dont buy it re your vote. Think you were distancing yourself in the votes from the mislynch you knew strawbs would be.
So first paragraph - you are saying if i threw up an arbitrary third, thats better than the 2 i sussed? I disagree. I also disagree that its difficult for a wolf to come up with a third. Thats crazy logic to find wolves with. Surely the incentive is on wolves to provide three names to influence the FFA results more?
Second paragraph - ill do this analysis later. Im running into a meeting for an hour. Aggressive / strongely argued. Choice of words aside, either way, change in tact, by your own admission above.Why would you, your wolf buddy GNR is doing it for you.
Flexibility is the hallmark of the wolf. They need to be flexible because if they nail their colours to any masts and are proven wrong enough times, they will get lynched via policy lynch.I mean think about it; if i stick to my guns and 'remain' inflexible, and im wrong about the 3 of ye (Tusk, GRN and QB) and convince everyone else to kill ye off (or even 1 or 2 of ye) and im wrong - village is gonna turn around and go 'eh baggles, whats going on all your suggestions are ****e' and then kill me.
Its not the course of action a wolf would follow.
Meanwhile, flexi-wolves are going around changing their mind all the time so that noone in the village can say 'hey you wanted X dead all along and you were proven wrong'.
Flexible people are much harder to pin down via their decisions (because they are so flexible on those decisions).I didn't want an arbitrary third. I wanted a good reasoning third. Some games, with very little going on except arguments about whether Die Hard is a Christmas movie or not (it is!), it can be hard to hold any suspicions against anyone. This game had gone pretty much straight in to game-play. I think there was plenty of data there for you to come up with a third name. Most other players did.
Giving only two names, on its own doesn't make you a wolf. In fact, nothing I've mentioned, on their own, make you a wolf. And I could also be wildly wrong about you. But when I combine them all, they do point towards wolf to me. I may change my mind (as I did with GnR) but democracy will rule in the lynch results.What a very flexible and hedge betting thing for you to say
You think you would be the first wolf to argue on thread with a buddy? I will be reading that interaction next.After yesterday's arguments with GnR, you think we're wolf buddies??? LOL!!!Ok seriously. Meeting now.So I understand that he wasn’t saying I slipped something from a BR, accepted, move on.
But IMO he’s clearly saying that I’ve slipped by wanting to know about Trit, I haven’t, as I’ve said it was the main talking point from yesterday so I felt it would give us the most information.
To paint it as anything else is just slippery. AND right before thread close, one word, FFS could you throw anymore shade?
It was a deliberate plant of a seed IMO
He followed it up this morning with more posts which based themselves on stuff about my posts which weren’t accurate. I wasn’t on him yesterday, read my ISO, I’m firmly on the shelf. Reading Baggly this morning I was on his case apparently, that’s just not true, at all. I was on plenty of people’s cases but he was not one of them.
He’s creating a narrative around me with a view to stitching me up IMO, it started with that post and it’s continued today with stuff like thatTell me am I reading the situation wrong? Maybe I’m being too defensive?3 things catch wolves imo. Powers (maybe seer gets lucky), vote analysis, and interaction analysis.
If ye buss each other and one of you goes down, the other uses it as a magic carpet to lock clear town.
Right, I went into this looking at Baggly being a wolf. Does a wolf honestly point out a slip shortly before a seer is due to get a peek. I dont think so, I reckon his call out prompted the peek from Ecto tbh. The nature and intensity that followed puts some space between them in my opinion. Its all well and good having a fake arguement on thread but this one was one that gets GnR lynched if picked up by the right people.
Baggly - Strong village lean
QB - Wolf lean, need to read more
Whippy - Nothing of note other than the one mention by GnR quoted here. Wording is odd to me.Whippy, it brings you back into the rest of the group, nothing more or less0 -
Duff because kolido and duff are both doing a great job of flying under the radar but if kolido was the wolf I think he’d have jumped on the wagon forming on me.
Kitten because her iso of me seemed pockety after I accused her of throwing shade at me.
Could you link to Kitten's ISO? I'd just like to see if I can see what you're seeing, but I need to literally see what you're seeing first. Thanks 0 -
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I’m on my phone but it’s post number 921
That'll do, thank-you
I'll leave out the multiquotes and go straight to the conclusion:Conclusion:
The main talking point is the flip flopping on votes. This could genuinely be due to being early in the game and not much information to go on. Could equally be a wolf trying to hide in the wagons (which admittedly she didn't achieve last night). The rest of her posts do not offer much. At the moment leaning towards a confused villager but will be keeping an eye on her going forward.
@Whippy: that seemed pockety to you??0 -
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