A&E drug intoxication?

noubliezjamais · 02-07-2019 10:14PM #1

I was wondering what the law regarding drug intoxication and calling an ambulance is. A few friends last week after the LC had a small gaffe with mainly cannabis and alcohol

The thing is, one of the lads who never smoked before, ate way too many pot brownies thinking "it's just a plant", and basically got paranoid and had a panic attack. He started to get a bit aggressive thinking we were trying to harm him but one of the lads had benzos/antipsychotics prescribed to him and that calmed him down.

They guy at the party didn't want to call the ambulance because he said they would arrest him for posession. I'm curious what's the law on this. I know in the States, police are automatically deployed and actually arrest people for drug posession while going to the hospital.

Is that the same case here? If you call the ambulance after having a bad drug experience from psychosis or OD and the gardai come, will they just take you to the hospital or search you for drugs?

Grolschevik · 02-07-2019 10:35PM

I'm curious to know when use term 'gaffe' came to mean 'party', rather than 'abode'.

Credit Checker Moose · 02-07-2019 11:21PM

Highly unlikely the Gardaí will also come with an ambulance.

hullaballoo · 02-07-2019 11:33PM

A gaffe is a blunder or remark causing unintentional embarrassment to its maker.

A gaff can mean a home. A house party was often called a "gaff party" or "gaffer" when I was an attendee at such things. I presume the insouciance of my generation has latterly shortened the term even further to just "gaff".

I don't know how you'd distinguish between a gaff and a gaff when pressed, though.

In relation to the substantive question in the OP, you may be liable for a public order offence but not for possession unless you still have some of the drug unconsumed on you.

Caranica · 02-07-2019 11:43PM

Always call the ambulance. It can be the difference between life and death. When you go to college, check out if they have a bystander intervention programme and get on it.

Grolschevik · 02-07-2019 11:46PM

hullaballoo wrote: »

A gaffe is a blunder or remark causing unintentional embarrassment to its maker.

A gaff can mean a home. A house party was often called a "gaff party" or "gaffer" when I was an attendee at such things. I presume the insouciance of my generation has latterly shortened the term even further to just "gaff".

I don't know how you'd distinguish between a gaff and a gaff when pressed, though.

In relation to the substantive question in the OP, you may be liable for a public order offence but not for possession unless you still have some of the drug unconsumed on you.

I've no recollection of ever seeing 'gaff' written down, so had no idea they were spelt differently. Genuinely, thank you for that!

Edit: etymology?

hullaballoo · 03-07-2019 12:03AM

Possibly stems from the usage to refer to very, very low-rent entertainment establishments for the gutter classes. Origins unknown.

I'd suggest if that's the use from which it was adapted, it was probably done ironically in Hiberno-English. I don't know this, I'm just supposing but the Irish have a history of adopting words from English ironically.

I can't find any connection between gaff and any Irish words I know for home, but it is still very possible that it comes from Irish, even perhaps a lost word for house/home etc.

Miike · 03-07-2019 12:09AM

The worrying thing about all of this is your friend giving someone anti-psychotic medication. That's a serious no no and could have ended very badly to be frank about it.

Grolschevik · 03-07-2019 12:17AM

hullaballoo wrote: »

Possibly stems from the usage to refer to very, very low-rent entertainment establishments for the gutter classes. Origins unknown.

I'd suggest if that's the use from which it was adapted, it was probably done ironically in Hiberno-English. I don't know this, I'm just supposing but the Irish have a history of adopting words from English ironically.

I can't find any connection between gaff and any Irish words I know for home, but it is still very possible that it comes from Irish, even perhaps a lost word for house/home etc.

I must have a look tomorrow. Thinking about 'gaffer' and 'gaff/gaffer stick' now, the latter having something to do with boats and/or fishing, I think.

Anyway, apologies for going wildly off topic.

Peregrinus · 03-07-2019 02:03AM

1. If in doubt, call the ambulance, or take your friend to hospital yourself. If you're with someone who is taking drink or drugs and medical issues arise, it is your responsibility as a friend to look after them, and that means getting help. Far better to make the mistake of taking them to hospital when it turns out not to be necessary than of failing to take them when it turns out that it was.

2. If you're not willing and able to get medical assistance for your drunk/drugged friends when needed, you're not mature enough to be going to cannabis and alcohol parties. Stay at home until you grow up.

3. The guards will not come with the ambulance. The medics at the hospital will not call the guards. Even if they did, being under the influence of drink or drugs is not, in itself, a crime.

4. Never, never, never give someone antipsychotic drugs which have not been prescribed to them. That could end very badly.

03-07-2019 02:05AM

I called 999 for an ambulance for a mate a couple of years ago and the guards rocked up too..

dartboardio · 03-07-2019 02:16AM

Depends.

My cousin had a seizure like fit after taking ecstasy at a party last year and the ambulance showed up and took him away

No guards, but the nurses were giving him a serious lecture when he woke the next morning with tubes all over him.

Im sure they searched him for id/phone or any sharp items but no, they wont be looking for drugs. Theyll be looking for you or your friend to co operate and be well

Obviously its different if they see you have a kilo of cocaine or weed right beside you

But somehow i doubt that if you're asking this question over a few edibles hah.

Victor · 03-07-2019 06:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I called 999 for an ambulance for a mate a couple of years ago and the guards rocked up too..

In those specific circumstances, the ambulance service may have felt the ambulance crew was at risk.

Gloomtastic! · 03-07-2019 07:02AM

As a father of a teenager, I can tell you a gaffe or gaffer is a house party that both sexes can attend. It’s a big deal in teen circles as usually they are restricted to single sex parties to try and keep things under control.

Carry on.....

03-07-2019 07:08AM

Victor wrote: »

In those specific circumstances, the ambulance service may have felt the ambulance crew was at risk.

No, according to one of the guards, whenever 999 is called they have to attend too..

Kablamo! · 03-07-2019 07:12AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, according to one of the guards, whenever 999 is called they have to attend too..

This isn't true.

Hoboo · 03-07-2019 07:22AM

If you or your friends require an ambulance after a few brownies you need to stick to the sandwiches and soda pop for a few more years.

The pills would be more harmful, and your buddy on anti psychotics shouldn't be near drugs or alcohol.

As for aggression after taking weed? Sweating profusely and feeling nauseous, fair enough. Aggressive? Not a chance.

Cant take the OP seriously.

03-07-2019 07:25AM

Kablamo! wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, according to one of the guards, whenever 999 is called they have to attend too..

This isn't true.

That's what the garda told me anyway..

Peregrinus · 03-07-2019 07:42AM

Hoboo wrote: »

If you or your friends require an ambulance after a few brownies you need to stick to the sandwiches and soda pop for a few more years.

Actually, the friend should probably avoid cannabis permanently. See below.

Hoboo wrote: »

The pills would be more harmful, and your buddy on anti psychotics shouldn't be near drugs or alcohol.

This, very much.

Hoboo wrote: »

As for aggression after taking weed? Sweating profusely and feeling nauseous, fair enough. Aggressive? Not a chance.

Psychotic reactions, (which can include paranoia, delusion, hallucinations, agitation, anger) are rare but not unknown (and for some reason appear to be slightly more common with edibles). When it does happen, it can be quite acute, but usually resolves quickly. If you've had one such cannabis-related episode, you're at a much greater risk of having more.

As I say, this is rare. Most people can use cannabis without harm but there are a few that should avoid it, and the OP's mate may be one of them. And the episode could point to a generally elevated risk of psychotic disorders for the lad even if he never touches dope again, so he should be encouraged to mention this episode to his GP and, generally, to be on the lookout to take good care of his mental health.

GM228 · 03-07-2019 07:47AM

hullaballoo wrote: »

Possibly stems from the usage to refer to very, very low-rent entertainment establishments for the gutter classes. Origins unknown.

Mid 19th century England, derives from a "penny gaff", low cost lower class theatre basically, theatre did not literally mean the theatre, but anywhere such entertainment took place such as the back room of a pub or you guessed it someone's place of residence where the entrance fee was usually a penny.

Cock fighting was popular at these events and they became known as penny gaff's with gaff referring to the metal gaff (a spear basically) attached to the rooster for the fight.

The tern stuck (even when not used specifically to describe a cock fight) for entertainment or house parties and in more modern times just meaning a house irrespective of any party taking place.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-07-2019 11:40AM

Taxi - Train Spotting style. You're probably too young for that to be on your radar.

I admire the lack of high horsery I'm afraid I lack the self control. Are ye stupid? Never mind of course ye are you've just done the LC. Call an ambulance and if in doubt flush. Having a death / serious injury on your conscience is not a good thing for your own mental health.

Sorry to clarify I'm only accusing you of the stupidity of youth. I didn't mean to be overly insulting.

Glass fused light · 03-07-2019 11:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's what the garda told me anyway..

The Garda is pulling your leg. The description of the event may mean that the Garda is there to arrest and hospitalise the person for their own safety or help the crew load the patient. But they don't turn up on routine calls.

Glass fused light · 03-07-2019 12:01PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Taxi - Train Spotting style. You're probably too young for that to be on your radar.

PS don't do drugs.

Grolschevik · 03-07-2019 02:22PM

GM228 wrote: »

Mid 19th century England, derives from a "penny gaff", low cost lower class theatre basically, theatre did not literally mean the theatre, but anywhere such entertainment took place such as the back room of a pub or you guessed it someone's place of residence where the entrance fee was usually a penny.

Cock fighting was popular at these events and they became known as penny gaff's with gaff referring to the metal gaff (a spear basically) attached to the rooster for the fight.

The tern stuck (even when not used specifically to describe a cock fight) for entertainment or house parties and in more modern times just meaning a house irrespective of any party taking place.

To further the etymology question. (Is there a forum for this sort of thing?)

I tried to embed on desktop, but couldn't remember how. So phone uploads.

The first is from the Oxford Dictionary of English (2010, 3rd edition), the second is from Terry Dolan's Dictionary of Hiberno-English.

I started to type them out, but then decided against the hassle of it!

Hoboo · 03-07-2019 04:36PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Actually, the friend should probably avoid cannabis permanently. See below.

This, very much.

Psychotic reactions, (which can include paranoia, delusion, hallucinations, agitation, anger) are rare but not unknown (and for some reason appear to be slightly more common with edibles). When it does happen, it can be quite acute, but usually resolves quickly. If you've had one such cannabis-related episode, you're at a much greater risk of having more.

As I say, this is rare. Most people can use cannabis without harm but there are a few that should avoid it, and the OP's mate may be one of them. And the episode could point to a generally elevated risk of psychotic disorders for the lad even if he never touches dope again, so he should be encouraged to mention this episode to his GP and, generally, to be on the lookout to take good care of his mental health.

OP's mate ate too much, if he drank a bottle of whiskey he'd experience similar. It's not a psychotic reaction, he was out of his mallet. If he wasn't so greedy he would have been fine.

Nothing a fanta and a Mars bar wouldn't sort out.

hullaballoo · 03-07-2019 04:42PM

Thanks, Dr Nick, but I think Peregrinus has form for knowing what he's talking about.

I'd be inclined to think the OP's friend was one or two steps beyond the fanta/mars bar combo.

Peregrinus · 04-07-2019 01:15AM

I wasn't present on the occasion, obviously, but the OP describes the lad as exhibiting paranoia, panic attacks, aggression, all of which were calmed by antipsychotics. This does look like a psychotic episode.

At any rate, no reason to take chances. Next time, get medical help. That's what a friend would do. And, following this time, urge the lad to tal to his GP about what happened. That's also what a friend would do. The GP will not cal in the guards.

Peregrinus · 04-07-2019 01:28AM

GM228 wrote: »

Mid 19th century England, derives from a "penny gaff", low cost lower class theatre basically, theatre did not literally mean the theatre, but anywhere such entertainment took place such as the back room of a pub or you guessed it someone's place of residence where the entrance fee was usually a penny.

Cock fighting was popular at these events and they became known as penny gaff's with gaff referring to the metal gaff (a spear basically) attached to the rooster for the fight.

The tern stuck (even when not used specifically to describe a cock fight) for entertainment or house parties and in more modern times just meaning a house irrespective of any party taking place.

Couple of points:

Gaff isn't derived from penny gaff; it's the other way around. Gaff, origin unknown, entered the language in the mid-18th century with the meaning of a fair. By the early 19th, the meaning had expanded to embrace any public amusement or entertainment, but especially a theatre or music-hall. By the middle of the 19th we have penny-gaff, a place that offers cheap or informal amusement. By the 1930s it could mean a house, flat, shop or pretty well any building, but it did suggest something cheap or modest.

Gaff, the spur worn by a fighting-cock, is unrelated. It comes ultimately from gaff, a boot-hook, which came into English from Portuguese or Spanish in the fourteenth century. This evolved to mean a hooked or barbed stick, and we sill have this sense in the gaff that an angler uses to land a large fish. By the eighteenth century the spike on a spiked spur (as worn by horseriders) was called a gaff, and from this we get the sense that refers to a fighting-cock's spur.

There's no evidence for it, and it doesn't seem very likely, but there's a possible link between the two gaffs in that gaff, the fair, may have been named from gaff, the spiked stick, in that spiked sticks were used to herd and control the livestock brought to a fair and sold there. But it seems a bit of a stretch.

Victor · 04-07-2019 01:54AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

I wasn't present on the occasion, obviously, but the OP describes the lad as exhibiting paranoia, panic attacks, aggression, all of which were calmed by antipsychotics. This does look like a psychotic episode.

Alternatively, the anti-psychotics had a mere placebo effect and the person was going to calm down anyway.

Peregrinus · 04-07-2019 01:58AM

Victor wrote: »

Alternatively, the anti-psychotics had a mere placebo effect and the person was going to calm down anyway.

Well, possibly. But that's always a possibility when any therapy for any condition appears to be effective. I wouldn't be banking on this as a mechanism for avoiding confronting more worrying possibilities, such as that the lad actually did have a cannabis-related psychotic episode, which (a) is a real thing, and (b) is not a think you would ever be wise to ignore.

04-07-2019 02:17AM

Victor wrote: »

Alternatively, the anti-psychotics had a mere placebo effect and the person was going to calm down anyway.

That's what I was thinking. Could throw a panadol in his mouth telling him it's an antipsychotic, and if that doesn't start to calm him in a minute or two, call the ambulance. Or if realistically possible, just go in a taxi.

Ambulances aren't exactly calming for the mind. He could be getting control of himself, see that rock up, and panic again thinking it's really serious and he's going to die.

A&E drug intoxication?

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