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Surname change after Marriage

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    #152
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Loveinapril wrote: »
    I am three years married and my mother in law still sends cards to me using my husband's surname, despite being VERY aware I did not change my name after we got married. The mammies are gas!

    Its kind of bizarre really. My father in law saw one of my bank cards and questioned, a bit annoyed like, why it still said my birth surname.


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    #153
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    ....... wrote: »
    Happened a friend of mine last year travelling without her husband but with one of her children to south africa.

    All in it cost them about 4k in lost flights, new flights and childcare for the kids left at home but it was a dying grandparent who had never met the youngest child so they felt they had to go through with it.

    Upon arriving home she applied for a new passport with her husbands surname but still uses her own surname socially.

    I hope to goodness she involved a solicitor in that debacle afterwards if she has anything in writing from them on it. There is nothing to require a marriage certificate to travel. What if you were not married and were the sole guardian, the father was deceased. Badly trained staff get such demented notions. Dig him up for a sig is it? Statue of limitations is 6 years if she wants to take that further. I am not litigious, but that’s outrageous. She would be doing that for us all!


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    #154
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    pwurple wrote: »
    I hope to goodness she involved a solicitor in that debacle afterwards if she has anything in writing from them on it. There is nothing to require a marriage certificate to travel. What if you were not married and were the sole guardian, the father was deceased. Badly trained staff get such demented notions. Dig him up for a sig is it? Statue of limitations is 6 years if she wants to take that further. I am not litigious, but that’s outrageous. She would be doing that for us all!

    The marriage cert was because she said that she used either name although her passport was not yet in her married name. They asked did she have a marriage cert to prove this. I have also been asked for mine (in less contentious situations) to prove I can use either name.

    Incidentally, this was an airline issue only. Upon arrival in SA no one asked to see any documentation to prove the child was not being trafficked.

    And she did see a solicitor over it - but I confess I have no idea of the outcome.


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    #155
    Gatica
    Registered Users Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭Gatica


    Different names between children and parents cannot be all that novel. Many countries do not have a tradition of name-changing post-marriage, e.g. Spain. (However, in Spain they do use 2 surnames, which does indicate fathers and mothers 1st surname, thus giving some name traceability.)

    My mother was a single parent and we had different surnames, we travelled a lot and it was never an issue. I didn't take my husband's last name and our daughter has his last name. I travelled on my own with her and only in Ireland did they enquire about whether she was my child, I had her birth cert with me though and a copy of my hubby's passport with written permission to travel with her. The passport control guard didn't ask to see it but enquired whether I had it with me. I think nowadays it's probably wise to prepare when travelling, but it's nothing that you cannot easily do.

    I've had my surname all my life, so changing it because tradition requires it, seemed wrong to me. I know some people prefer to change, and if that's their choice, then great. I just wouldn't like it if it was pushed on people without their choice to do so (i.e. on women).


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    #156
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,481 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Is it just me or is there something horribly Handmaid's Tale-ish about having to have written permission from your husband/partner in order to travel with your own offspring???


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    #157
    Loveinapril
    Registered Users Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭Loveinapril


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    Is it just me or is there something horribly Handmaid's Tale-ish about having to have written permission from your husband/partner in order to travel with your own offspring???

    Yep! It reminds me of how my mother needed written consent from my father allowing her to get her tubes tied in the 80's.


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    #158
    Gatica
    Registered Users Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭Gatica


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    Is it just me or is there something horribly Handmaid's Tale-ish about having to have written permission from your husband/partner in order to travel with your own offspring???

    I don't think so. I think it would/should be the same if the father travels with their child alone. There's no way for border security to know if either parent is taking off with their kid without other parent's consent (unless they can show sole custody).

    PS: I don't think it's about permission to travel in general, per se, more about child security/protection and possibility of abduction, which governments worry about more nowadays.


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    #159
    Scarinae
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Scarinae


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    Is it just me or is there something horribly Handmaid's Tale-ish about having to have written permission from your husband/partner in order to travel with your own offspring???

    My above post about the British MP Tulip Siddiq being stopped at UK border control for having a different surname to her child links to a Guardian article - according to that, she is trying to get the option of having both parents named on children's passports to avoid this issue. I have no idea what information is displayed on Irish children's passports but it seems like it would be easier than everyone having to carry around permission slips and birth certificates.


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    #160
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,108 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    Is it just me or is there something horribly Handmaid's Tale-ish about having to have written permission from your husband/partner in order to travel with your own offspring???

    It works the other way round too . A man needs the permission from the mother too. It is to avoid one or other taking the child unbeknownst to the other . Not a bad thing in my opinion
    Praise be ! Blessed be the fruit !


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    #161
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    Is it just me or is there something horribly Handmaid's Tale-ish about having to have written permission from your husband/partner in order to travel with your own offspring???

    I see it can feel that way, but it's both parents giving permission, not necessarily a husband /misogynistic thing. It's common for separated parent's to be requested to provide proof that the other parent is aware of the trip too. I think it's actually a standard clause that's commonly put in any child arrangements post-separation. So a father travelling would have to get permission from the mother of the children as well.

    It's a necessary procedure if it helps check children are related to the adult they are travelling with, and that the other parent knows about the trip. For example, there's been cases in Britain where the father has taken his daughter on holiday to be married off as a child bride in his country of origin. Or mothers taking their children to live in their home country away from their father.


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    #162
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,481 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Neyite wrote: »
    So a father travelling would have to get permission from the mother of the children as well.

    It's a necessary procedure if it helps check children are related to the adult they are travelling with, and that the other parent knows about the trip.

    But how does the person checking know that the permission is genuine and not forged? Are the letters notarised? Certified in any way? Has the person checking got the authority to ring the other parent? What if they don't answer??? These are all genuine questions, btw, I've no children and as I've said, my brother with the blended family has never had any issues travelling with his children of different surnames.


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    #163
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    But how does the person checking know that the permission is genuine and not forged? Are the letters notarised? Certified in any way? Has the person checking got the authority to ring the other parent? What if they don't answer??? These are all genuine questions, btw, I've no children and as I've said, my brother with the blended family has never had any issues travelling with his children of different surnames.

    My friend was asked for a signed affidivat from a solicitor.


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    #164
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    I'm not sure Dial, I imagine lots of forgeries get through and I suspect that it's mainly arse covering by the airport security.

    I know that the passport office can notify you if the other parent tries to apply for a child passport at your request. I forget what I wrote on the passport application for my son but my details were on it - not sure about passport number. With biometric scanning now I imagine that if they had any concerns I wasn't related to him they could check the information instantly on their computer and see I'm his mother?


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    #165
    deeks
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭deeks


    Why not just find someone with the same surname as yourself to marry. Saves all the confusion :D


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    #166
    missmatty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭missmatty


    I got married two years ago and didn't change my name. I was congratulated by lots of people in work a few months ago for getting a promotion and I'd never even done the interview. Turns out it was a person with v similar first name and my husband's surname who got it and everyone assumed I'd changed my name. I also get post a lot with my 'married' name from my dad, his aunt and a friend of mine. Very surprised that people still automatically assume a name change in 2019, without asking like.


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    #167
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    deeks wrote: »
    Why not just find someone with the same surname as yourself to marry. Saves all the confusion :D

    Doesn’t they give you some sort of super power?


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    #168
    Scarinae
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Scarinae


    deeks wrote: »
    Why not just find someone with the same surname as yourself to marry. Saves all the confusion :D

    I actually know a couple with the same surname who got married!


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    #169
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A girl I worked with from a town in the midlands knew a couple who were childhood sweethearts that got married . Her surname was Fell and his was Cotter.

    They were known as (fake first names) Ciara Fell and Richie Cotter


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    #170
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,631 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I got married many years ago, never changed surname: neither did either of my sisters.

    Children are known by their father's surname, it doesn't bother me at all.

    There has never been the slightest trace of any hassle about it - has never caused problems - nothing.

    School parent-teacher meetings: Hello, Miss French: I'm Sheila Kelly, Seán Murphy's mother. How do you do. Etc etc


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    #171
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    missmatty wrote: »
    Very surprised that people still automatically assume a name change in 2019, without asking like.

    I don't think people other than perhaps family really care. Working in a large multinational the change seems to be more common that not among the different nationalities there, but no one cares either way. Some also choose to keep their name for professional purposes at work, but change it for kids / personal life. It's up to the person themselves as to what they want. A lot of people don't like asking because some people like to get worked up about the politics of it, and so they prefer to avoid that and let the person say themselves.


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    #172
    Prospector1989
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Prospector1989


    We got married a couple of weeks ago, herself changed her name on social media and plans to change it on official documents as they are renewed.

    Am I happy she did it? It's nice to hear her use the name so yes.
    Would it have bothered me if she didn't? Absolutely not.


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    #173
    jesso22
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭jesso22


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Just because you haven't personally experienced it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

    My wife, who kept her maiden name, was questioned about it at passport control on the way back into Ireland with the two kids (who have my surname).

    She was basically advised, by the Guard, to bring a copy of the kids birth certificates with her in future if she was travelling without me.

    In fairness they let her through no problem after a quick chat.

    Exact same thing has happened to me. Travelled to England a few times to visit my dad with my young son and was stopped like this on one occasion on the way back. No issue, just advised to bring a copy of his birth cert next time.


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    #174
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    My wife is proud of her surname and never considered changing it and I had said it to her she should keep her name before she has said she would like to. Just because a child will have a different surname to her makes no difference. That being said even in our age group (early/mid 30’s) we would be very much in the minority among friends on both sides, almost everyone who has got married recently has changed their name.

    Most people also assume she changed it (or that she should have) as almost every piece of mail from friends or family is sent using my surname. There are quite a few people that address mail to her as Mrs “my first name” “my surname” which is quite funny.


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    #175
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Veronica Spicy Comics wrote: »
    My wife is proud of her surname and never considered changing it and I had said it to her she should keep her name before she has said she would like to. Just because a child will have a different surname to her makes no difference. That being said even i our age group (early/mid 30’s) we would be very much in the minority among friends on both sides, almost everyone who has got married recently has changed their name.

    Of course your wife may decide that any children of the marriage will have her surname instead of yours, so you will be the one carrying the birth cert when travelling.


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    #176
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    I’m shocked at how quickly and easily most women I know change their name after marriage.
    I feel it’s like they wear their new name as a badge of honor, because being married is the be all and end all.
    I think some of them are pathetic man pleasers to be honest.
    They’re definitely not feminists anyways.
    That’s just my opinion.
    Needless to say, I haven’t changed my name and have no intention of.


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    #177
    Scarinae
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Scarinae


    Addle wrote: »
    I’m shocked at how quickly and easily most women I know change their name after marriage.
    I feel it’s like they wear their new name as a badge of honor, because being married is the be all and end all.
    I think some of them are pathetic man pleasers to be honest.
    They’re definitely not feminists anyways.
    That’s just my opinion.
    Needless to say, I haven’t changed my name and have no intention of.
    While I too have been surprised at how many women I know changed their names after getting married (I thought around half would change and around half would keep their names), and I don't intend on changing my own name, I disagree that it is somehow unfeminist to change your name when you get married.

    In my opinion, the aim of feminism is to give women choices, and if they use their choice to change their name then I see no problem with that. You can't know fully what is behind someone else's choice.


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    #178
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    I consider an unnecessary choice that favours men is male chauvinism.
    As I said, all just my opinion.


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    #179
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Addle wrote: »
    I’m shocked at how quickly and easily most women I know change their name after marriage.
    I feel it’s like they wear their new name as a badge of honor, because being married is the be all and end all.
    I think some of them are pathetic man pleasers to be honest.
    They’re definitely not feminists anyways.
    That’s just my opinion.
    Needless to say, I haven’t changed my name and have no intention of.

    How did the world ever survive. Thank God this feminism craze is new, god only knows the double barrelled made up names we'd have today

    Just get a grip with yourself, you don't have to destroy every tradition in the name of control.....sorry feminism.

    The world and population has progressed through the centuries, I don't think the world is so bad that you need to pick and destroy every tradition in the name of erasing masculinity. Next you will look to change the name woman cos it ends in man


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    #180
    Scarinae
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Scarinae


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How did the world ever survive. Thank God this feminism craze is new, god only knows the double barrelled made up names we'd have today

    Just get a grip with yourself, you don't have to destroy every tradition in the name of control.....sorry feminism.

    The world and population has progressed through the centuries, I don't think the world is so bad that you need to pick and destroy every tradition in the name of erasing masculinity. Next you will look to change the name woman cos it ends in man

    Did you even read the thread? We've been over the 'tradition' part already:
    pwurple wrote: »
    Which tradition though? The tradition to change name to the mans is historically extremely recent. A blip or fad even.... it's only about 150 years old.
    The previous tradition was our original Irish nomenclature.


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    #181
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Addle wrote: »
    I’m shocked at how quickly and easily most women I know change their name after marriage.
    I feel it’s like they wear their new name as a badge of honor, because being married is the be all and end all.
    I think some of them are pathetic man pleasers to be honest.
    They’re definitely not feminists anyways.
    That’s just my opinion.
    Needless to say, I haven’t changed my name and have no intention of.

    Whilst I’ve said here several times that I find changing your name to be an odd thing to do I certainly wouldn’t judge someone for doing it. I know several girls who’s dads were proper abusive dicks and they were delighted to be able to change their names (some whose mothers then went back to their maiden names).


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