Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

8-10 · 02-07-2019 06:55PM

United are the biggest commercial club in the world. Paying 100m or whatever on a CB shouldn't matter. I bet Ferdinand cost that sort of money or more if you take inflation into account. Fans of most clubs have to be concerned at the price of players. Fans of the likes of United, City, PSG, Real shouldn't be concerned with the money as they can easily afford any asking price. The important thing is that they don't lowball on wages. Being outside the CL you need to give a bit of extra incentive in the wage packet to entice the players. And they know United are loaded.

Maguire and Alderweireld are both gettable and both would improve the team. Money shouldn't be an issue just get then in

Adamcp898 · 02-07-2019 06:59PM

billyhead wrote: »

This is an typical Ed ploy. He knew leicester would not accept 70 mil so he can say that United tried to sign a defender however they either would not sign for us aka De Light or there is no value in the marker with Maguire. We will end up signing no one for the defense position this summer imo.

I'm kinda hoping this is what it is for once tbh. When I look at Maguire for £70 million I still don't see it sorting out our defensive woes but I definitely could see Ed drawing a line under buying defensive reinforcements for a few seasons off the back of it and that is what has me worried.

Plus, Leicester quoted the same fee last year. We said he wasn't worth it, and that was with Maguire riding on his World Cup high. Did he really have a season where he suggested he suddenly is worth that kind of money?

billyhead · 02-07-2019 07:03PM

8-10 wrote: »

United are the biggest commercial club in the world. Paying 100m or whatever on a CB shouldn't matter. I bet Ferdinand cost that sort of money or more if you take inflation into account. Fans of most clubs have to be concerned at the price of players. Fans of the likes of United, City, PSG, Real shouldn't be concerned with the money as they can easily afford any asking price. The important thing is that they don't lowball on wages. Being outside the CL you need to give a bit of extra incentive in the wage packet to entice the players. And they know United are loaded.

Maguire and Alderweireld are both gettable and both would improve the team. Money shouldn't be an issue just get then in

I feel the bid is just to appease the fans. Its all PR to say we tried to fix the problems in Central defence but the market is to much inflated. I am not doubting we cant afford to sign him but anything over 70 mil for Maguire is a joke. If he hands in a transfer request that would be another story and he might be attainable for a reasonable fee but I cant see him doing that.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 02-07-2019 07:37PM

Adamcp898 wrote: »

plus, Leicester quoted the same fee last year. We said he wasn't worth it, and that was with Maguire riding on his World Cup high. Did he really have a season where he suggested he suddenly is worth that kind of money?

He didnt necessarily need to. It became clear that those at United touted as good enough to fill the breach, werent, so they have no choice but to look again

barry194 · 02-07-2019 07:39PM

billyhead wrote: »

I feel the bid is just to appease the fans. Its all PR to say we tried to fix the problems in Central defence but the market is to much inflated. I am not doubting we cant afford to sign him but anything over 70 mil for Maguire is a joke. If he hands in a transfer request that would be another story and he might be attainable for a reasonable fee but I cant see him doing that.

I don't think it would be a PR stunt. It would be a failure if we don't sign a CB so it will appear as if we aren't paying what it costs in the current market and that would receive backlash.

I agree it's madness compared to previous seasons or what we paid for Rio in 2003 but it's the current market price so why should we care if we spend £90m on something that will be a huge help in fixing our problem?

Zeek12 · 02-07-2019 07:43PM

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Plus, Leicester quoted the same fee last year. We said he wasn't worth it, and that was with Maguire riding on his World Cup high. Did he really have a season where he suggested he suddenly is worth that kind of money?

No.
But the market keeps inflating prices to a ridiculous level. And of course every club knows Utd urgently need to strengthen.

I don't like the thought of paying up to £90M to get him.

There are other options. I'd say Diop is gettable for around 50-55M (if we could manage to throw in Rojo or Jones).

02-07-2019 07:50PM

https://twitter.com/utdarena/status/1146137179313377280

8-10 · 02-07-2019 07:52PM

billyhead wrote: »

I feel the bid is just to appease the fans. Its all PR to say we tried to fix the problems in Central defence but the market is to much inflated. I am not doubting we cant afford to sign him but anything over 70 mil for Maguire is a joke. If he hands in a transfer request that would be another story and he might be attainable for a reasonable fee but I cant see him doing that.

The market is bananas right now. But it shouldn't matter what the cost is it should matter who you can get in that will improve the team. de Ligt was never really going to be realistic but players like Maguire already at a lower team not in Europe would definitely move to United. He's a good defender, imposing, and English. Declan Rice would be another one who can cover CB and would be a leader in the centre. The kind of leader United traditionally sign and those players know that the step up will solidify their starting chances with England.

Pay what's needed then move on to the next signing.

billyhead · 02-07-2019 07:54PM

As suggested Diop would be a good cheaper alternative.What about Umtiti from Barcelona? He could fill the gap until Tuanzebe can be relied on and has more experience. I just think there are better and more cheaper ways of solving the problem and although we desperately need to fix the CB problem I dont like to see us getting ridden by other clubs. The money saved could be used towards sorting out the midfield aswell.

Your Airbag · 02-07-2019 08:01PM

Fred The Red wrote: »

Just a slightly related quesiton;
In your opinion should we have signed a CB last summer? Do we need one now?

When Jose was trying to sign Maguire last summer I mentioned how uninspiring a player I thought him to be then.

I also mentioned the the boards stance of not getting Maguire wasn't that unreasonable, although not ideal, based on two things, one being Jose's demeanor in press conferences that summer, he was very stroppy and based on history he was on course for his 3rd season self imposed drama and eventual exit. Secondly the two centre backs he did sign didn't look promising playing under him, none of the players did in his last season, the board had lost faith in him. Not sacking him in the summer was the real mistake.

Based on what we saw last season which was basically at one point a worse season than Moyes had I still stand by what I said many times last season, Maguire would have had very little effect on the disastrous sh*tshow Jose guided us too.

I see the angle your taking, which is the board are now only buying the backline Jose should of had. You can make that argument if you like but its a very shallow surface level one, Jose was intent on falling out with everyone at one point and did with multiple players, there is no guarantee Maguire would not have been one also.

This situation is different, Ole seems poles apart from Jose in terms of attitude and forming relationships with players and instilling confidence in them. Its his first transfer window to build what he wants. Jose had several and hundreds of millions to do it. None of Ole's signings are yet to succeed or fail, he hasn't a full season or start to a season yet.

The two situations are incomparable imo.

barry194 · 02-07-2019 08:04PM

billyhead wrote: »

As suggested Diop would be a good cheaper alternative.What about Umtiti from Barcelona? He could fill the gap until Tuanzebe can be relied on and has more experience. I just think there are better and more cheaper ways of solving the problem and although we desperately need to fix the CB problem I dont like to see us getting ridden by other clubs. The money saved could be used towards sorting out the midfield aswell.

How much cheaper though realistically would Diop be? Surely he'd be at least £60m and he is 22 so wouldn't be ready just yet.

Umtiti doesn't even start for a poor Barcelona backline, I think he would be a disaster in the Premier League, definitely couldn't rely on him to hit the ground running. He also wouldn't be cheap.

Maguire is a ready made option who we wouldn't have to be worried about going abroad after a solid season or two. I think he is the perfect match, apart from of course De Ligt.

damowill · 02-07-2019 08:23PM

Surprised we are not trying to include any of our current centre backs in a deal with Leicester or West Ham. The hammers would surely be interested in Bailly, Jones, Rojo or Smalling. Probably Brendan Rodgers prefers ball playing defenders so maybe only Jones could be included there

Zeek12 · 02-07-2019 08:35PM

damowill wrote: »

Surprised we are not trying to include any of our current centre backs in a deal with Leicester or West Ham. The hammers would surely be interested in Bailly, Jones, Rojo or Smalling. Probably Brendan Rodgers prefers ball playing defenders so maybe only Jones could be included there

It's been reported West Ham are amenable to taking a defender from us.

Their CB options are pretty decent anyway (if they sell Diop). They have Balbuena, Ogbonna, Reid. And Declan Rice could fill in there too.

Jones or Rojo could do a job as a backup.

Personally I'd like us to keep Bailly for one more season anyway (as 3rd or 4th choice CB)

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 08:36PM

damowill wrote: »

Surprised we are not trying to include any of our current centre backs in a deal with Leicester or West Ham. The hammers would surely be interested in Bailly, Jones, Rojo or Smalling. Probably Brendan Rodgers prefers ball playing defenders so maybe only Jones could be included there

Apparently we did try to include a player in an offer for Diop.

Your Airbag · 02-07-2019 08:44PM

Out of interest does anyone think we should pay over 70m for Maguire? Do people rate him that highly?

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 08:49PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Out of interest does anyone think we should pay over 70m for Maguire? Do people rate him that highly?

Not particularly. I'd go for Alderweireld instead.

But I'm not gonna complain if we get him. There are players is prefer but any player we could get would also be very expensive and a gamble too.

I think united are looking to go for an established cb rather than another young lad, unless that young player is de Ligt. My opinion is ole wants a captain back there.

Lord TSC · 02-07-2019 08:58PM

8-10 wrote: »

United are the biggest commercial club in the world. Paying 100m or whatever on a CB shouldn't matter. I bet Ferdinand cost that sort of money or more if you take inflation into account. Fans of most clubs have to be concerned at the price of players. Fans of the likes of United, City, PSG, Real shouldn't be concerned with the money as they can easily afford any asking price. The important thing is that they don't lowball on wages. Being outside the CL you need to give a bit of extra incentive in the wage packet to entice the players. And they know United are loaded.

Maguire and Alderweireld are both gettable and both would improve the team. Money shouldn't be an issue just get then in

Actually, since you mention Rio.

Kristof Terreur tweeted this earlier....

Man United paid £30m for Rio Ferdinand in 2002 when they had a revenue of around £175m. 17% of their total income.

Man United have to pay £90m for Harry Maguire in 2019, when their turnover is around £590m. 15% of their total income.

* This is not a comparison between the qualities of both players. Just an example of which part of the budget a club was willing to spend on a top centre back with an English passport 17 years ago and now.

Lord TSC · 02-07-2019 09:00PM

Also, I’d be nervous with Toby.

Screams of another older player looking to move for a final pay day, rather than someone motivated to drag the club up a level again. I can see why we’d be skeptical of him this summer, given the philosophy seems to be or a younger, hungry for trophies profile of player.

BenK · 02-07-2019 09:01PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Actually, since you mention Rio.

Kristof Terreur tweeted this earlier....

Man United paid £30m for Rio Ferdinand in 2002 when they had a revenue of around £175m. 17% of their total income.

Man United have to pay £90m for Harry Maguire in 2019, when their turnover is around £590m. 15% of their total income.

* This is not a comparison between the qualities of both players. Just an example of which part of the budget a club was willing to spend on a top centre back with an English passport 17 years ago and now.

Interesting comparison from a financial point of view. From a player quality point of view it's apples and oranges!

Cookiemunster · 02-07-2019 09:04PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Apparently we did try to include a player in an offer for Diop.

The rumour was we offered Jones. You can seem why they passed.

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 09:10PM

BenK wrote: »

Interesting comparison from a financial point of view. From a player quality point of view it's apples and oranges!

His sale price is also dictated by the finances of his current club. (Ties in to the same point regarding the proportion of United's finances)

70 million to Leicester is a smaller amount in comparison to their revenue than it would be to ajax for de Ligt.

Leicester need the money less, and maguire needs the move less, so while de Ligt might be a better option objectively, their values are calculated very differently.

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 09:11PM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The rumour was we offered Jones. You can seem why they passed.

Smalling and Rojo are no more appealing. So I don't see why people would expect teams to jump at them.

clubberlang12 · 02-07-2019 09:14PM

In a summer that we have been linked with practically every players around, people still talking about Alderweireld is odd, considering the lack of stories coming out about him, especially with a cheap buy out clause.

I would think with all the above taking into account, Toby has told us he is not interested in joining us, and you can't blame him. I think unless a Real or Barcelona come in for him, Toby will stay where he is.

BenK · 02-07-2019 09:37PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

His sale price is also dictated by the finances of his current club. (Ties in to the same point regarding the proportion of United's finances)

70 million to Leicester is a smaller amount in comparison to their revenue than it would be to ajax for de Ligt.

Leicester need the money less, and maguire needs the move less, so while de Ligt might be a better option objectively, their values are calculated very differently.

Don't disagree with any of that. It is what it is but that money for Maguire is crazy. Rio was a Rolls Royce of a player whereas Maguire is nowhere near his level.

I know where United are now isn't comparable to where United were when they signed Rio but I just don't think Maguire improves United enough for what he'd cost. I know people are saying whoever gets him will have to pay over £70 million, but that doesn't mean United have to be the ones to do so!

I honestly don't know enough about potential central defenders around Europe/the world but surely there is someone gettable for that kind of money that would vastly improve the defense.

PARlance · 02-07-2019 09:42PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Also, I’d be nervous with Toby.

Screams of another older player looking to move for a final pay day, rather than someone motivated to drag the club up a level again. I can see why we’d be skeptical of him this summer, given the philosophy seems to be or a younger, hungry for trophies profile of player.

It's amazing how these things grow legs. Who exactly are the older unmotivated players who have come for a payday. Sanchez has been sh1t but he has put in the effort... Ibra, RVP, Fellaini, Matic... we hardly have a problem that screams. We don't really have a record of signing older players with no interest, we do have a record of playing players more than most but that's across the board.

I'd be more concerned about some of the younger pros not applying themselves, definitely wouldn't be doubting a solid pro like Alderweireld.

But ya, we're going all out on kids because people think that worked before when in fact, the kids were guided by quality experienced pros.

Maybe we were interested in him but he wasn't interested in us because he is hungry for trophies...

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 09:50PM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

In a summer that we have been linked with practically every players around, people still talking about Alderweireld is odd, considering the lack of stories coming out about him, especially with a cheap buy out clause.

I would think with all the above taking into account, Toby has told us he is not interested in joining us, and you can't blame him. I think unless a Real or Barcelona come in for him, Toby will stay where he is.

There are no stories linking him anywhere. There are no stories saying he is looking to sit on the contract. There are no stories saying he is about to sign a new contract.

But from all those no stories it should be read as he had rejected us? Why?

Imo the reality is that any club that may look to take Alderweireld this summer simply don't have him s first choice on their list. That United works prefer maguire and will try to sign him. Should that fail, it may be we move for Alderweireld. Same could be true of City. Juve may have had him backup to de Ligt.

Zeek12 · 02-07-2019 09:52PM

PARlance wrote: »

It's amazing how these things grow legs. Who exactly are the older unmotivated players who have come for a payday. Sanchez has been sh1t but he has put in the effort... Ibra, RVP, Fellaini, Matic... we hardly have a problem that screams. We don't really have a record of signing older players with no interest, we do have a record of playing players more than most but that's across the board.

I'd add Di Maria and Mkhitaryan to the list of experienced guys who lacked motivation.

Matic was coasting for most of last season.

And when you add in Sanchez, whose performance levels have been shocking, its understandable why some fans can form this opinion.

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 10:00PM

Zeek12 wrote: »

I'd add Di Maria and Mkhitaryan to the list of experienced guys who lacked motivation.

Matic was coasting for most of last season.

And when you add in Sanchez, whose performance levels have been shocking, its understandable why some fans can form this opinion.

Imo Di Maria is the only one you could argue didn't put in the effort.

Not playing well is not the same as slacking off. Sanchez has worked had, just been rubbish. Matic has just lost that needed bit in his legs. Don't know why you would say he doesnt try. Don't get me wrong, I'd want him replaced in the starting line-up, but id not accuse him of downing tools.

Mkhitaryan... Again. Didn't work out, looks like the league isn't fit him, but i don't agree he lacked motivation or effort.

DM_7 · 02-07-2019 10:06PM

The financial investment balance remains weighted towards the forwards. While I don't mind United paying big for a player it does bring extra attention.

Take Pogba, as a player who was not bought to score goals he did not have the protection of scoring a good number of goals to hide any general poor performances. Compare that to Lukaku, who still has people saying United should play him and provide chances as he would score.

I think Maguire would fall on the Pogba side for how difficult it will be for him to show value (or lack of a better term) from his fee.

I think what Bayern did with Lucas Hernandez was the right idea, yes similar money but he has a release clause. This takes pressure away from all parties and removes any idea of an overpayment. If United are willing to pay high fees for a defender I think it would be logical to go for a player with a release clause or have another major transfer to take the spotlight away.

Paying a massive fee to get Maguire from Leicester will always carry the sense of something was wrong there ( United desperate etc). He is immediately under extra scrutiny and pressure beyond just playing for United.

Could swap in Wan Bissaka and Palace into that scenario.

I like what Real did, they made some huge finance deals, including defenders but Hazard will get all the attention and allow the younger guys space and time to settle. I am not sure Maguire would do that for United's young guys. Would need a bigger headline signing in attack.

Zeek12 · 02-07-2019 10:09PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Mkhitaryan... Again. Didn't work out, looks like the league isn't fit him, but i don't agree he lacked motivation or effort.

We may have to agree to disagree on that one.

To say the league doesn't fit him isn't the full story imo. And at Arsenal they've had issues too. I've heard Gunners fans complaining even Ozil works harder than him

Not saying that Sanchez doesn't work hard by the way. But when you look at his performance levels, atrocious goal return and huge salary.....it isn't surprising that fans can view this....and use it to question his commitment

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

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