Changes in the GAA - super thread

kilns · 02-07-2019 04:19PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Numerous Players of the year, numerous multiple All Star winners, number 1 shot stopper in Clarke, 1-8 probably the best in the country for a couple of years, some pretty decent midfielders such as Parsons, and decent forwards who blow hot and cold. Never say die without talent won't get you far.

As for the more general point, we'd all like to see Dublin compete without the massively inflated funding they receive. Then we can talk about greatness and legacy and all that. At the moment all people are talking about is their advantages, both natural and artificially created. Its a shame really and its more of the GAAs creation than Dublins, although they are understandably reluctant to decline the funds.

Ok I have huge respect for that Mayo team but we all know the player of the year and all stars are a joke. No point having a goalkeeper who cant kick a ball out, 1-8 best in country I am sorry but no, again Higgins and Keegan are the only two who will be remembered as great players none of the rest will be. I challenge you to name another who outside of Mayo will be remembered in 20 years saying he was top player. They were a team better than the sum of their parts but being honest they were not that great talent wise and were only media darlings because of the constant heartbreak. Funding has nothing to do with the quality of player, yes it can influence fitness and prep and Mayo were competitive with Dublin because they could compete at that level. The only pity over the last 5 or so years is that Dublin lacked any real competition, we need a strong Kerry and Tyrone back

kilns · 02-07-2019 04:20PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Ah FFS, you're taking the p*ss now. Many of these Mayo players are among the greatest to ever play the game and undoubtedly would have won a couple of AIs if not faced by the current Dublin team, a Dublin team claimed as GOAT by Dublin fans, yet just about scraped past a supposedly weak/average Mayo team on a number of occasions.

Care to name some of these Mayo players who are the greatest ever to play the game?

ToBeFrank123 · 02-07-2019 04:26PM

kilns wrote: »

Ok I have huge respect for that Mayo team but we all know the player of the year and all stars are a joke. No point having a goalkeeper who cant kick a ball out, 1-8 best in country I am sorry but no, again Higgins and Keegan are the only two who will be remembered as great players none of the rest will be. I challenge you to name another who outside of Mayo will be remembered in 20 years saying he was top player. They were a team better than the sum of their parts but being honest they were not that great talent wise and were only media darlings because of the constant heartbreak. Funding has nothing to do with the quality of player, yes it can influence fitness and prep and Mayo were competitive with Dublin because they could compete at that level. The only pity over the last 5 or so years is that Dublin lacked any real competition, we need a strong Kerry and Tyrone back

Clarke, Parsons, Boyle, A Moran, D O'Connor.
All of them in fact. Great players who have stood up and been counted in big games and usually only ran out of steam when Dublin brought on the fruits of their massive games development funding from the bench.

Why am I biting?...you're clearly a Dublin supporter still miffed Mayo won player of the year a few times. Let it go!

STB. · 02-07-2019 04:27PM

STB. wrote: »

What people forget is that between 1995 and 2011 Dublin weren't at the races.

bruschi wrote: »

Are we counting 95 and 11 or not? AI wins in those years. Lets not count them so just to keep the count lower then for this famine period of 15 years

I suppose it all hangs on whether you understand the word "between"

bruschi wrote: »

I'd surely love to be from a county where we "are not at the races" and to be given multiple millions to try get us back at the races again.

I'm sure you wouldn't right now if the half dead bodies lying outside the Riverbank Hotel on Monday was anything to go on. Dublin for all their money couldn't get that far (despite winning more games than Wexford.)

Wexford has always suffered from one thing. Hurling vs Football and small population. I suppose you can always add to that problems at Board level.

The "millions" you are talking about in developments funds do not go to the senior players. They go to getting kids playing GAA and more importantly getting them to continue playing.

The lads playing for Dublin right now, come from similar backgrounds to myself. Some play with my former club. What sets them apart is skill fitness and determination. Nothing to do with money. They are normal kids at the end of the day with day jobs.

There are only 15 of them on the pitch at any one time, just like the opposition. Time for the whinging to stop and other counties to step up to the mark, and stop making excuses. For Wexford that will always be a problem as the population and club makeup is strongly geared to hurling and rugby.

Billy Mays · 02-07-2019 04:27PM

McKenna having a pop at Kilmacud Crokes under 14s today

STB. · 02-07-2019 04:36PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Many of these Mayo players are among the greatest to ever play the game and undoubtedly would have won a couple of AIs if not faced by the current Dublin team, a Dublin team claimed as GOAT by Dublin fans, yet just about scraped past a supposedly weak/average Mayo team on a number of occasions.

Stop would you. Weak average or greatest to ever play the game. Which is it.

Mayo struggled to beat Armagh at the weekend.

Greatest players ever. Seriously, just get out, you are making a holy show of yourself.

ToBeFrank123 · 02-07-2019 04:38PM

STB. wrote: »

Stop would you. Weak average or greatest to ever play the game. Which is it.

Mayo struggled to beat Armagh at the weekend.

Greatest players ever. Seriously, just get out, you are making a holy show of yourself.

Who are you on about?

Kilns said Mayo were weak opposition, and Dublin are a great team.

Dublin beat Mayo by their skin of their teeth on a number of occasions.

Some of the posts on here are odd. Dublin are called GOAT but draw with Mayo or beat them by a point and suddenly Dublin are world beaters while Mayo players are not great.

Its you whose made a show of yourself.

Barlett · 02-07-2019 04:40PM

Lookit at the end of the day, my county is better than your county.

BarryD2 · 02-07-2019 04:41PM

STB. wrote: »

Time for the whinging to stop and other counties to step up to the mark, and stop making excuses. For Wexford that will always be a problem as the population and club makeup is strongly geared to hurling and rugby.

kilns wrote: »

The only pity over the last 5 or so years is that Dublin lacked any real competition, we need a strong Kerry and Tyrone back

Kinda says it all at the end of the day. We're doing OK Jack, so put up or shut up.

Dots1982 · 02-07-2019 04:41PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

McKenna having a pop at Kilmacud Crokes under 14s today

He really doesn’t help himself.

bruschi · 02-07-2019 04:46PM

STB. wrote: »

I suppose it all hangs on whether you understand the word "between"

I'm sure you wouldn't right now if the half dead bodies lying outside the Riverbank Hotel on Monday was anything to go on. Dublin for all their money couldn't get that far (despite winning more games than Wexford.)

Wexford has always suffered from one thing. Hurling vs Football and small population. I suppose you can always add to that problems at Board level.

The "millions" you are talking about in developments funds do not go to the senior players. They go to getting kids playing GAA and more importantly getting them to continue playing.

The lads playing for Dublin right now, come from similar backgrounds to myself. Some play with my former club. What sets them apart is skill fitness and determination. Nothing to do with money. They are normal kids at the end of the day with day jobs.

There are only 15 of them on the pitch at any one time, just like the opposition. Time for the whinging to stop and other counties to step up to the mark, and stop making excuses. For Wexford that will always be a problem as the population and club makeup is strongly geared to hurling and rugby.

I noticed that despite allowing for the "not at the races for 15 years" excluding the bookended All Ireland titles, you have no comment whatsoever on this particularity bad famine period for Dublin.

So you think millions pumped into full time coaching staff and increasing both the quality and quantity of training and coaching has no effect on subsequent adult based teams? I never once mentioned anything about money going to senior teams.

Its mental, everyone keeps harping on that it isnt money that makes this, that it is volunteer coaches and money doestn score goals etc etc. You look at every team that has been successful. It all stems from very good underage set ups and quality coaching. When you get to have multiple paid staff to do this and not rely on either funding this nor having to rely on additional volunteer coaching staff, to try say this is not either a knock on effect or not beneficial is staggering ostrich like behaviour.

The Wexford club game is strongly geared to hurling and rugby? I'm not entirely sure what that has anything to do with the discussion, as any development fund goes to both hurling and football which I have included in both my records of "not being at the races" in that 15 year period. The rugby comment is particularly odd and has little or nothing to do with any issues in Wexford GAA, no more than any other sport in any other county.

Dublin were clearly at the races and got a massive amount of additional funds which has bumped them way ahead of the pack, on top of their own natural advantages and additional funding outside of GAA specific revenue.

There is no one making excuses. But what I really hate, and it really, really bugs me, is this perception that its up to other counties to do what Dublin did and either go look for this magical bag of funding money or that they should just get better like Dublin did and stop moaning.

Another question which has gone largely unanswered is what is the player retention rate and participation rate of Dublin school children in this investment period? If this is the yardstick of the success, and not actually the consistent domination at senor level, then what are the numbers on it.

kilns · 02-07-2019 05:02PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Who are you on about?

Kilns said Mayo were weak opposition, and Dublin are a great team.

Dublin beat Mayo by their skin of their teeth on a number of occasions.

Some of the posts on here are odd. Dublin are called GOAT but draw with Mayo or beat them by a point and suddenly Dublin are world beaters while Mayo players are not great.

Its you whose made a show of yourself.

No I actually stated this current Dublin are actually not that amazing its just the standard of opposition has dropped and for those without red and greed tinted glasses, the only two players who will be looked back upon as great on this Mayo team are Keegan and Higgins. You are scraping naming others

ToBeFrank123 · 02-07-2019 05:04PM

kilns wrote: »

No I actually stated this current Dublin are actually not that amazing its just the standard of opposition has dropped and for those without red and greed tinted glasses, the only two players who will be looked back upon as great on this Mayo team are Keegan and Higgins. You are scraping naming others

I can't be the only one here who thinks you are talking b*llix ? I'd say you think it yourself.

Dublin beat Mayo by a last minute free and a missed gps device in 2017. That's how close they were.

Slightly derailing the thread here by the way.

STB. · 02-07-2019 05:15PM

bruschi wrote: »

I noticed that despite allowing for the "not at the races for 15 years" excluding the bookended All Ireland titles, you have no comment whatsoever on this particularity bad famine period for Dublin.

No I had to point out to that I had included the word "between" as in your eagerness to have a go, you missed it.

Not at the races was to to do with not winning All Irelands in that time. You shouldn't need to have that pointed out to you. Yet Dublin still received a bigger amount of development funds than any other county - as thats where the large population lies.

bruschi wrote: »

So you think millions pumped into full time coaching staff and increasing both the quality and quantity of training and coaching has no effect on subsequent adult based teams? I never once mentioned anything about money going to senior teams.

Development funds to get kids playing GAA will mean that more may stick at it. We don't know yet. Perhaps we should go back to the days when you could go out on the lash every night after a game and have a few smokes at half time.

bruschi wrote: »

The Wexford club game is strongly geared to hurling and rugby? I'm not entirely sure what that has anything to do with the discussion, as any development fund goes to both hurling and football which I have included in both my records of "not being at the races" in that 15 year period. The rugby comment is particularly odd and has little or nothing to do with any issues in Wexford GAA, no more than any other sport in any other county.

Dublin were clearly at the races and got a massive amount of additional funds which has bumped them way ahead of the pack, on top of their own natural advantages and additional funding outside of GAA specific revenue.

Its everything to do with it. You were comparing Wexford with Dublin, a county that has less than a 10th the population of the other.

I live in Wexford. Rugby or Hurling. Whats it gonna be. These are the choices.

Stoner · 02-07-2019 05:15PM

La Bamba wrote:

. If I had the same oppurtunity again I wouldnt have written that- you live and you learn. Now, you seem to have taken the steps of going through my post history to attack me instead of actually debating the point in question.

But in fairness you only had 8 posts in four years, you've nearly doubled that in a day. It wouldn't have taken long.

And maybe LaBamba if you didn't attack a section of supporters he would not have followed the standard you set.

You clearly have an agenda. Same style and approach with each reincarnation.

You continue to ask the same questions and get the same response.

However thank you for not derailing the Dublin thread this time.

STB. · 02-07-2019 05:23PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Who are you on about?

Kilns said Mayo were weak opposition, and Dublin are a great team.

Dublin beat Mayo by their skin of their teeth on a number of occasions.

Some of the posts on here are odd. Dublin are called GOAT but draw with Mayo or beat them by a point and suddenly Dublin are world beaters while Mayo players are not great.

Its you whose made a show of yourself.

Read the post I quoted you on. You are banging on about Mayo (are you from Mayo by any chance ?) as having some of the best players of all time. Then you are sarcastically referring to Dublin as being the GOAT but are saying that it was against weak Mayo players.

You cant have it both ways. And do you know what, nobody ever remembers second. Win something and then in you can make comparisons.

ToBeFrank123 · 02-07-2019 05:27PM

STB. wrote: »

Read the post I quoted you on. You are banging on about Mayo (are you from Mayo by any chance ?) as having some of the best players of all time. Then you are sarcastically referring to Dublin as being the GOAT but are saying that it was against weak Mayo players.

You cant have it both ways. And do you know what, nobody ever remembers second. Win something and then in you can make comparisons.

I am paraphrasing and quoting other posters, one in particular kilns.

Jump in at the end of thread by any chance?

La Bamba · 02-07-2019 05:33PM

Stoner wrote: »

But in fairness you only had 8 posts in four years, you've nearly doubled that in a day. It wouldn't have taken long.

And maybe LaBamba if you didn't attack a section of supporters he would not have followed the standard you set.

You clearly have an agenda. Same style and approach with each reincarnation.

You continue to ask the same questions and get the same response.

However thank you for not derailing the Dublin thread this time.

What section of supporters did I "attack"?
I asked for perspectives on an article and gave my reasons for asking for other peoples opinions.However the first 3 responses were from individuals who stated they wouldnt read the article and attacked the man not the point of the article and I stated that this was disappointing.

You can say I have an agenda all you want but I really just wanted to gain an insight into some Dubliners perspectives on an article about their county.

In a thread of over 8 pages there is actually very little discussion of the content of the article I shared from a Dubliners perspective so if you wish to share your own answer to my question please let me know.

Barlett · 02-07-2019 05:34PM

STB. wrote: »

Read the post I quoted you on. You are banging on about Mayo (are you from Mayo by any chance ?) as having some of the best players of all time. Then you are sarcastically referring to Dublin as being the GOAT but are saying that it was against weak Mayo players.

You cant have it both ways. And do you know what, nobody ever remembers second. Win something and then in you can make comparisons.

Have you heard of Buzz Aldrin by any chance? Or Brazil 1982, Or the Netherlands 74/78 or Newcastle United 96 or ....I could go on. Nonsense talk.

STB. · 02-07-2019 05:39PM

Barlett wrote: »

Have you heard of Buzz Aldrin by any chance? Or Brazil 1982, Or the Netherlands 74/78 or Newcastle United 96 or ....I could go on. Nonsense talk.

Buzz Aldrin I have heard of.

The others No. Where they all losing teams ?

Barlett wrote: »

Lookit at the end of the day, my county is better than your county.

Well theres only one way of changing that. For the other teams to step up and stop whinging about but they get loads of money and can afford to import lab players or lads that were destined for Barcelona etc etc etc etc

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I am paraphrasing and quoting other posters, one in particular kilns.

Jump in at the end of thread by any chance?

No. Here from the start. Use quotes if you are going to paraphrase other posters.

Barlett · 02-07-2019 05:48PM

STB. wrote: »

Buzz Aldrin I have heard of.

The others No. Where they all losing teams ?

Well theres only one way of changing that. For the other teams to step up and stop whinging about but they get loads of money and can afford to import lab players or lads that were destined for Barcelona etc etc etc etc

No. Here from the start. Use quotes if you are going to paraphrase other posters.

Lord blessus and save us.

STB. · 02-07-2019 05:50PM

Barlett wrote: »

Lord blessus and save us.

You'll need more than prayers in Mayo, Barlett.

Barlett · 02-07-2019 05:55PM

STB. wrote: »

You'll need more than prayers in Mayo, Barlett.

I know, we need those handy millions the GAA gave Dublin to buy All Irelands

STB. · 02-07-2019 05:59PM

Barlett wrote: »

I know, we need those handy millions the GAA gave Dublin to buy All Irelands

To be honest, after all the coke and hookers there wasn't much left to spend on getting the lads juiced up on untracable PEDs.

Begrudgery. I expect nothing less.

Barlett · 02-07-2019 06:02PM

STB. wrote: »

To be honest, after all the coke and hookers there wasn't much left to spend on getting the lads juiced up on untracable PEDs.

Begrudgery. I expect nothing less.

Not a begrudger, just a realist.

StupidLikeAFox · 02-07-2019 06:43PM

STB. wrote: »

.Development funds to get kids playing GAA will mean that more may stick at it.

This seems to be your main justification for why Dublin are getting such a disproportionate amount of money. Why the focus on the kids in Dublin? What about the kids in other counties? Why are individual clubs in Dublin able to afford their own full time GDOs when other, poorer and weaker counties are left to their own devices?

It's a ludicrous situation where the team with the largest population and ability to pull the largest sponsorship deals, is given so much support and money from the central body. I mean they should get the the most but that surely needs to be on a per capita basis.

lukin · 02-07-2019 07:56PM

kilns wrote: »

The figures that Ewan quotes are Games development funds, which goes directly to GPOs and coaching, if you take the accounts and add up the funds you can see that.

Yeah and those funds pay for full-time coaches. Dublin have more full-time coaches per head of population than any other county in the country. Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden employ two full-time coaches. Presumably their salaries are coming from the Games development funds.
Dublin supporters like to throw out this argument that all the funding they receive goes towards kids and promotion of Gaelic games in schools etc.
It's utter nonsense. It doesn't matter what I say anyway because the dubs will come back with some ridiculous counter argument attempting to disprove it.
They will say anything rather than admit their success has been helped even a little bit by the enormous sums of money given to them by Croke park.
Nobody is saying their success is all down to money.
They just refuse to accept that money has played any part whatsoever.

shockframe · 02-07-2019 08:08PM

lukin wrote: »

Yeah and those funds pay for full-time coaches. Dublin have more full-time coaches per head of population than any other county in the country. Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden employ two full-time coaches. Presumably their salaries are coming from the Games development funds.
Dublin supporters like to throw out this argument that all the funding they receive goes towards kids and promotion of Gaelic games in schools etc.
It's utter nonsense. It doesn't matter what I say anyway because the dubs will come back with some ridiculous counter argument attempting to disprove it.
They will say anything rather than admit their success has been helped even a little bit by the enormous sums of money given to them by Croke park.
Nobody is saying their success is all down to money.
They just refuse to accept that money has played any part whatsoever.

Maybe but at the same time though the detractors will tell you that Dublin's success is only down to money which in unfair on all the work they have done.

Dublin has been enormously successful over the last few years in its organization and planning.

Anyone would think they were like politicians, bankers, property developers with brown envelopes in the Celtic Tiger era the way people go on.

EICVD · 02-07-2019 08:13PM

La Bamba wrote: »

Hi all,

I posted this in the Dublin thread but was told it may derail the thread so I have decided to post it here instead.

Basically,I am just genuinely interested in getting Dublin fans perspective on MacKenna's article from this morning. Unfotunately when it comes to his articles I feel some people ( Non dubs included) see his name and Dublin being mentioned and roll their eyes at the headline and dont read the article.However, the points raised in this article worried me:

https://punditarena.com/gaa/emackenna/ewan-mackenna-monday-dublin-advantage/

To be clear, I am not attacking Dublin with this post. I would just like to get the perspectives of actual Dublin supporters of why you may disagree with points made in the particular article.

A lot of us talk to the same people and hear and read the same peoples opinions everyday so it is difficult for our opinions to change on anything.As a person from the country who would have a lot of friends who agree with MacKenna I am merely trying to get opinions and perspectives that may differ!. I usually try twitter for a discussion like this but in my opinion the level of debate has gone to the dogs and people tend to play the man not the ball so if I got some Dubliner perspectives on this article here I would appreciate it !

Hi Ewan

EICVD · 02-07-2019 08:14PM

naughtb4 wrote: »

He is getting great mileage out of writing the same article for the last year

According to himself on Twitter the last 11 years! Poor bloke really has no life

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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