Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Professor Moriarty · 02-07-2019 01:08PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

:pac: Will you get over yourself. Disgusting

What would your description/opinion be?

ambro25 · 02-07-2019 01:09PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Whatever your feeling on Farage, one thing that everyone should be able to agree on is that he, and thus the Brexit party, is very adept at manipulating the audience.

I am pretty certain that very little of these things, such as the recent twitter videos of BP MEP's arriving at the parliament, are not thought and planned and part of a wider PR scheme.

Farage is a solid platinum populist straight out of the LePen senior mould, I have no doubt either that he orchestrated this collective behaviour, and all other Brexit Party-related social/main media-grabbing acts.

I was talking about Brexit Party MEPs in general, however, very few of whom have convinced me so far, through interviews and other outings, that they have the intellectual capacity and political acumen to do anything other than to represent their self-interest alone, and over extremely short-term timescales at that (Farage excepted, as that fabled exception which confirms the rule).

We've seen them before as UKIP politicians/MEPs: rabble acting the senior useful idiots to Führage's own self-interest.

Now you can call me naive for doubting that they (alright, most of them) are aware of the goodwill-killing effect of this and other stunts stunt amongst the EU27, but if Nigel and consultants à la Bannon weren't telling them what to do, how to do it and when to do it, I very much doubt that most of them would be in Brussels as an MEP to begin with.

Stop moaning ffs · 02-07-2019 01:09PM

These same morons doing this ‘protest’ today and the morons they’re pitching it to are the same ones roaring racist and sectarian abuse at James MClane for refusing to wear the poppy. His protest is legitimate though.
This one today is beyond childish. Embarrassing Britain on a global scale.

InTheShadows · 02-07-2019 01:10PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What would your description/opinion be?

I think they have every right to make a protest in the way they have.

Professor Moriarty · 02-07-2019 01:11PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think they have every right to make a protest in the way they have.

They have the right. But do you think they were correct to do what they did?

Berserker · 02-07-2019 01:12PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Not really. There is no reason for me to stand for the British anthem except for respect.

There was no need to stand, but to turn their back is a sign of disrespect. Even to the musicians themselves.

Would sitting have been a more acceptable protest then? As I said above, the Brexit Party should not have taken their seats or salaries in the parliament. I'm surprised that they have taken them. Refusing to take your seats, your salary and highlighting those facts would have been a better approach.

Tell me how · 02-07-2019 01:13PM

ambro25 wrote: »

Now you can call me naive for doubting that they (alright, most of them) are aware of the goodwill-killing effect of this and other stunts stunt amongst the EU27, but if Nigel and consultants à la Bannon weren't telling them what to do, how to do it and when to do it, I very much doubt that most of them would be in Brussels as an MEP to begin with.

And there will likely be a significant portion of them in the HoC after the next GE.

It is very surprising how easy it can be to advance when you decide not to care if people realise you really don't give a sh*t about the common good.

Brexit party refused to publish a mandate before the EU elections, they are refusing to name their GE candidates who they unveiled somewhat in Birmingham at the weekend and they scream about the establishment like it's something which can be identified as anti-British as opposed to entirely selfish.

trellheim · 02-07-2019 01:13PM

I was surprised to see them taking their seats, if I'm honest.

Dont they have to take the seats to get paid ? Never forget the gravy train

10000maniacs · 02-07-2019 01:17PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think they have every right to make a protest in the way they have.

I don't think they do. Its like going to a house party and insulting the hosts hospitality.

Tell me how · 02-07-2019 01:17PM

Berserker wrote: »

Would sitting have been a more acceptable protest then? As I said above, the Brexit Party should not have taken their seats or salaries in the parliament. I'm surprised that they have taken them. Refusing to take your seats, your salary and highlighting those facts would have been a better approach.

What are they protesting? They all choose to campaign in order to attend the parliament.
The reason it is such a poor show is because it flies in the face of democratic principles which, like them or loathe them are critical in facilitating some sort of harmony between communities and nations.

They scream about WW1 and WW2 seemingly without understanding that it can happen again and they are making such an event more likely in behaving this way.

It's not the beginning of a war, but it's the beginning of the end of a time when major players in Europe were working together, to paraphrase Churchill who they love so much.

VinLieger · 02-07-2019 01:21PM

trellheim wrote: »

Dont they have to take the seats to get paid ? Never forget the gravy train

They actually don't, brian crowley had the lowest attendance record for the last 2 EU parliaments and got paid as well as collected his expenses

VinLieger · 02-07-2019 01:23PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think they have every right to make a protest in the way they have.

And if SF hypothetically took their westminster seats and behaved like this for god save the queen these are the very people who would literally be calling for their heads, they are disgusting self serving hypocrites

InTheShadows · 02-07-2019 01:26PM

VinLieger wrote: »

And if SF hypothetically took their westminster seats and behaved like this for god save the queen these are the very people who would literally be calling for their heads, they are disgusting self serving hypocrites

In your opinion. They have been voted in there by the British electorate and i respect that wish and their wish to make the protest.

02-07-2019 01:28PM

VinLieger wrote: »

And if SF hypothetically took their westminster seats and behaved like this for god save the queen these are the very people who would literally be calling for their heads, they are disgusting self serving hypocrites

Unlike SF who show their disrespect by not showing up at all!

Lackadaisical · 02-07-2019 01:28PM

Agreed. They could do the dignified form of protest and just not show up. Instead they are there to attempt to be as disruptive as possible, while taking every cent they can get.

If SF turned up in London and just ranted and raved all day, they’d do their own cause no good at all.

Not only that but the EU isn’t keeping the UK in. They can leave tomorrow morning if they want. They just can’t magic away the practical consequences of that move.

This is why I’m fed up with brexiteers. They’re basically attempting to paint themselves in the same light as actual independence movements that struggled against British imperialism (the very thing they seem to worship), when they’re basically demanding to leave a peaceful, democratic, voluntary membership, multilateral organisation, while keeping all the benefits and throwing a huge tantrum about it.

I found the comparisons to Irish independence absolutely disgusting. I’m standing in Cork, a city that was burnt to the ground by crown forces for daring to leave the UK. The Brexit situation is absolutely nothing remotely like that. If they want to go they can go. Nobody is stopping them, in fact the EU has bent over backwards to come up with a solution to allow them to leave without major trauma and they more or less spat at them and threw in their face.

They’re utterly deluded and they’re selling themselves other people’s historical victimhood. For all the talk of cultural appropriation, I think this is by far the worst and most deluded that I’ve ever seen anywhere.

They’ll be claiming the American revolution next.

VinLieger · 02-07-2019 01:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Unlike SF who show their disrespect by not showing up at all!

While i dont agree with SF's stance its far more principled and grown up than what the brexit party have just done

ambro25 · 02-07-2019 01:33PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

In your opinion. They have been voted in there by the British electorate and i respect that wish and their wish to make the protest.

Would your respect extend to condoning their collective inaction as Parliamentarians, out of curiosity?

You know, as in 'not doing the job which the British electorate voted them in for'.

(conditional used, since we're talking about the shiny new, rebranded 'Brexit Party' MEPs, not the decade+ old UKIP MEPs)

serfboard · 02-07-2019 01:37PM

Given that we're talking about it here, shows how successful a stunt it was.

Can we not give it any further oxygen of publicity?

First Up · 02-07-2019 01:41PM

serfboard wrote:

Given that we're talking about it here, shows how successful a stunt it was.

Oh please.

jm08 · 02-07-2019 01:49PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

After the meat producer shenanigans that precipitated the horse meat scandal here some years ago or the Irish contaminated pig meat scandal, I do not have much confidence in meat producers wherever they are whether from Ireland, Europe, Brazil or Argentina.
Every time I sit down to eat a steak, I think to myself, is this the one that's going to do me over?

The fact that they were all discovered before they did any harm to the general public is testatament as to how good the EU's (and particularly the Irish) testing and traceability system is.

Professor Moriarty · 02-07-2019 01:59PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

In your opinion. They have been voted in there by the British electorate and i respect that wish and their wish to make the protest.

Nobody has suggested that they don't have the right to do what they did. However, what they did was pig ignorant.

VinLieger · 02-07-2019 02:01PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nobody has suggested that they don't have the right to do what they did. However, what they did was pig ignorant.

And childish so basically a prime example of the whole brexiteer mindset

02-07-2019 02:07PM

serfboard wrote: »

Given that we're talking about it here, shows how successful a stunt it was.

Can we not give it any further oxygen of publicity?

Well, it got everyone's attention, that's for sure, they don't want to be there.

Professor Moriarty · 02-07-2019 02:13PM

serfboard wrote: »

Given that we're talking about it here, shows how successful a stunt it was.

Can we not give it any further oxygen of publicity?

I dunno how successful it was. It might have the staunch Leavers chuckling and clapping. But they're not the majority in Britain. I think most British people would be appalled and embarrassed to be associated with such behaviour. Or I hope so anyway.

Leroy42 · 02-07-2019 02:19PM

Johnson out redefining what BRexit will be. This is a far cry from £350m per week for the NHS.

People say that there won’t be any clean drinking water, and the planes won’t fly, and there won’t be milk solids and glucose and whey to make Mars bars. Do you really believe that? It is total nonsense. I prophesy very confidently that we will have a successful Brexit, the planes will fly, there will be clean drinking water, and there will be whey for the Mars bars, because where there’s a will, there’s a whey, as I never tire of saying.

So basically once there is drinking water (the UK is a 1st world country lest anyone forgot!) Johnson will see it as a good outcome?

I can see why they didn't lead with that during the campaign

02-07-2019 02:20PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I dunno how successful it was. It might have the staunch Leavers chuckling and clapping. But they're not the majority in Britain. I think most British people would be appalled and embarrassed to be associated with such behaviour. Or I hope so anyway.

Meanwhile outside the EU parliament, Catalan separatists staged a protest about being refused entry to the Parliament.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48838498

What happened at the Parliament?

Outside parliament, hundreds of Catalan demonstrators protested that three separatist figures were unable to take their seats, as inside the chamber fellow MEPs placed three photos of the missing members on their desks.

Ex-Catalan president Carles Puigdemont and colleague Toni Comin were barred from taking their seats because they fled to Brussels after a banned referendum on independence went ahead and did not attend a swearing-in ceremony in Madrid as required. Another separatist leader, Oriol Junqueras is on trial in Spain and in detention.
Irish Sinn Féin MEP Matt Carthy warned that the parliament's credibility would be undermined if it did not stand up for the voters of Catalonia.

Strazdas · 02-07-2019 02:22PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I dunno how successful it was. It might have the staunch Leavers chuckling and clapping. But they're not the majority in Britain. I think most British people would be appalled and embarrassed to be associated with such behaviour. Or I hope so anyway.

Reading the Twitter responses, it looks like it has caused total disgust in Britain and there are surprisingly few messages of support.

Leroy42 · 02-07-2019 02:23PM

It was also telling that Johnson was unwilling to make any statement on the equality law differences between NI and GB. He said that it was up to NI.

But what about Brexit? Well the UK voted for that so in that case NI doesn't matter I assume.

Professor Moriarty · 02-07-2019 02:30PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Reading the Twitter responses, it looks like it has caused total disgust in Britain and there are surprisingly few messages of support.

Hopefully it's backfired spectacularly.

Leroy42 · 02-07-2019 02:34PM

One must also comment on the Lib Dems all wearing yellow "Bollocks to Brexit" t-shirts into the EU today.

Just like the BP, this parliament is not supposed to be a place to argue out national issues, but MEP's (whilst of course arguing for their electorate) are supposed to take the EU as a whole rather than simply national issues.

The UK HoC is the place for this sort of carry on.

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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