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Why is breastfeeding in public acceptable?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    Breast milk, one of the few things left that the govt. cannot tax!

    This opposition to breast feeding really is baffling. Whether a woman chooses to feed her child in a restaurant or public park or her own home. It's her choice. It's as natural as breathing and nobody else's business.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Which actually shows that you are wrong about female breasts : many societies, in Africa for instance, don't see breasts as sexually arousing at all, but for instance the sight of an ankle may be considered shocking. Or a woman's hair. It's a learned response. Unlike the different functions of the penis, which are actually its functions. The only function of the mammary glands is to produce milk.

    Excuse me, are you completely out of your ****ing mind? Are you? You're claiming that only reason men like boobs is all just because they saw other men liking boobs?

    Boobs have a much huger direct function than a penis size or any other sexual part of the body in that they provide food for the baby. Your point about function is clearly proving you 100% completely wrong.

    Societies "in Africa for instance".... what the hell are you talking about? Like what the hell? You saw some boobs on NatGeo some time and now you know all about what they think of boobs? Of course they see boobs as sexual items and attractive. Maybe not quite as much as other parts of the body but that doesn't make them not attractive. Feet or hair... what the absolute **** are you talking about? "in Africa for instance".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Look, coffee shops and cafes are not the place for babies to be drinking breast milk ffs, it's not natural.

    They're for adults to be able to relax and drink some coffee with steamed cow titty milk.


  • Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Excuse me, are you completely out of your ****ing mind? Are you? You're claiming that only reason men like boobs is all just because they saw other men liking boobs?

    Boobs have a much huger direct function than a penis size or any other sexual part of the body in that they provide food for the baby. Your point about function is clearly proving you 100% completely wrong.

    Societies "in Africa for instance".... what the hell are you talking about? Like what the hell? You saw some boobs on NatGeo some time and now you know all about what they think of boobs? Of course they see boobs as sexual items and attractive. Maybe not quite as much as other parts of the body but that doesn't make them not attractive. Feet or hair... what the absolute **** are you talking about? "in Africa for instance".

    Bizarre and stupid rant. Of course there are societies that don't sexualise breasts. They can still be attractive, but they aren't a sexual thing meant only for your partner.

    How would a tribe in Ethiopia or the Amazon still get aroused by something they see all the time, with their mothers, grandmothers, sisters, cousins, and friends all topless their entire lives..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Bizarre and stupid rant. Of course there are societies that don't sexualise breasts. They can still be attractive, but they aren't a sexual thing meant only for your partner.

    How would a tribe in Ethiopia or the Amazon still get aroused by something they see all the time, with their mothers, grandmothers, sisters, cousins, and friends all topless their entire lives..

    It really is bizarre, not sure what I said that deserved that mouthful of abuse, because there's nothing very controversial in what I said.

    It's not just Africa, the Chinese used to publish books of erotica about sex acts that could be performed with women's bandaged feet, whereas foot fetishes are more of a personal thing in our society. It's really all about what you "learn" is sexy in your society. Because the reality is that almost any part of the body can be seen as sexually attractive, and probably is by some.

    Buttocks are a better indication of female fertility than the size of breasts, because large breasts don't correlate to having more milk, never mind being able to have a baby in the first place, where the shape and size of the buttocks shows pelvic width. And there are places where buttock implants are more common than breast implants, South America for instance.

    So yeah, sexual fascination with breasts is not surprising, but no more so than other areas of the body that we don't consider taboo.

    I don't actually believe that people who object to seeing a woman breastfeed do so because they find it arousing, it's more because they find it an uncomfortable reminder that we are "just" animals.

    I've never actually heard a man say that he was aroused by seeing a woman feed a baby. Now maybe they just don't want to admit it, but then why is there so much emotion in some objections to public breastfeeding (like the crazed rant above)?

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭fash


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Which actually shows that you are wrong about female breasts : many societies, in Africa for instance, don't see breasts as sexually arousing at all, but for instance the sight of an ankle may be considered shocking. Or a woman's hair. It's a learned response. Unlike the different functions of the penis, which are actually its functions. The only function of the mammary glands is to produce milk.
    Incorrect:
    A significant function of the human female breast is to serve as sexual signalling: compared to other species or the size necessary for feeding offspring, the human female breast is exceptionally large. Compare the breasts is orangutans for example. Furthermore from an evolutionary perspective, human female breasts were quite small until humans changed from front to back to front to front copulation.

    I would note that the human male penis is similarly outsized compared to strict function.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    fash wrote: »
    Incorrect:
    A significant function of the human female breast is to serve as sexual signalling: compared to other species or the size necessary for feeding offspring, the human female breast is exceptionally large. Compare the breasts is orangutans for example. Furthermore from an evolutionary perspective, human female breasts were quite small until humans changed from front to back to front to front copulation.

    I would note that the human male penis is similarly outsized compared to strict function.

    That's only one theory, not a proven function, unlike milk production which is an actual function. Cows udders are massive but we don't consider that this means they serve as anything other than to provide milk. Our upright stance is why breasts have become so visible, so it's not surprising that they are noticed by men, but various parts of the woman's body are mentioned at least as often in love poems and erotica than her breasts.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,785 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Unfollow


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    It can be hard to convince a lot of women to breastfeed as they prefer the convenience of using formula instead.

    Lovely. If you think making up bottles is more convenient than breast feeding you have little practical experience of either. The only inconvenience of breast feeding is other people's reactions.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 761 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Talk of “society sexualises breasts” is silly, natural selection sexualises breasts. It is a signal to men that the woman will have a good chance of providing offspring what they need to survive.

    Same goes for a nice set of hips (child bearing).

    If one takes a position that the reason for our likes and dislikes is due to creation and survival of offspring, you’ll be right most of the time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    I have plenty of experience making bottles and feeding babies, I have two children. Breast feeding means having a baby attached to her breast, which can be sore, it means it's more difficult to ask someone else to feed the child. Breast pumping can be inconvenient. Bottles are fairly easy once you get into the routine.

    I breast fed all of mine, and from observation of friends, bottle feeding is far more of a pain, having to keep bottles sterilised, have a supply of clean water and enough formula whenever you go out, and somewhere to make it up. And expensive.

    Nobody needs a breast pump BTW, it's only if you also want the one single advantage of bottle feeding as well as the advantages of breastfeeding. Though of course it does come with similar inconveniences to bottle feeding, except you don't have to do it all the time. :)

    No, as I say, the only real problem with breastfeeding is idiots who insist on conflating it with some sort of exhibitionism.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    To see a mother breastfeeding her child is a beautiful thing

    The most natural thing in the world

    Only an absolute weirdo would think otherwise


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    I think one possible reason some people are averse to breast feeding is they like to think of themselves and humanity as sophisticated, breastfeeding is a reminder that we're animals, they don't like that reminder. I think such people would get embarrased about other bodily functions too which serve as a reminder that we're animals.

    Indeed. As I said a couple of pages back (though TBF it was hidden at the bottom of a long post)
    volchitsa wrote: »
    I don't actually believe that people who object to seeing a woman breastfeed do so because they find it arousing, it's more because they find it an uncomfortable reminder that we are "just" animals.

    I've never actually heard a man say that he was aroused by seeing a woman feed a baby. Now maybe they just don't want to admit it, but then why is there so much emotion in some objections to public breastfeeding (like the crazed rant above)?

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    Is it more natural than drinking water?

    For babies, yes.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    A lot of women just don't want to do it as they're more comfortable using formula. If you organise yourself it's fairly handy sterilising bottles and having formula with you etc.

    That's my point.

    Apart from anything else, "organising yourself" when you have a small baby is complicated enough, so yes of course it's possible, but it's extra effort and expense, so if you ask yourself why women "feel more comfortable" you could perhaps move away from the slightly odd comment you made earlier about (men - of course) trying and failing to convince women because women want the extra convenience of bottle feeding.

    The reality is that women are the ones who get judged - whether they breast feed (for not being discreet enough, ie not hiding away in a public toilet) or for bottle feeding (for not being bothered being available for their baby).

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    That wasn't the question.

    That's not obvious. Why should it not be about what's natural for babies?

    Maybe if you made your point instead of asking ambiguous questions you'd get the answer you want.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,781 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Jesus there's an awful amount of spoof here.

    If you're uncomfortable with breastfeeding in public, have a word with yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    fash wrote: »
    Incorrect:
    A significant function of the human female breast is to serve as sexual signalling: compared to other species or the size necessary for feeding offspring, the human female breast is exceptionally large. Compare the breasts is orangutans for example. Furthermore from an evolutionary perspective, human female breasts were quite small until humans changed from front to back to front to front copulation.

    I would note that the human male penis is similarly outsized compared to strict function.

    I've admitted before that the arousal of a potential mate may be a function of breasts (more specifically breast size) but if that is the case it is, like you said, an evolved function but before that they were always making and storing milk, therefore it ks their primary/main/principal function and they can carry out this function regardless of size. To suggest that arousing men is a function of breasts on a par with producing milk is ludicrous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    Lads, the OP is just an Journal.ie 'journalist' looking for another kneejerk clickbait article.

    Don't feed the journalist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    Someone made a point that it's the most naturally thing, I'm asking why is it more natural than people drinking water. My question isn't ambiguous, it's very clearly challenging the assumption that breastfeeding is "tye most natural thing". What makes it more natural than people drinking water or walking from a tree to a river.

    People are judged all the time for their choices, breastfeeding is no different. As an adult it shouldn't be your business what other people think.

    Water isn't food. Breast milk is food.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    A fascinating observation!

    Don't be an asshole. You are the one comparing drinking water to drinking breast milk.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    Someone made a point that it's the most naturally thing, I'm asking why is it more natural than people drinking water. My question isn't ambiguous, it's very clearly challenging the assumption that breastfeeding is "tye most natural thing". What makes it more natural than people drinking water or walking from a tree to a river.
    You may as well say that breathing is more natural than breastfeeding but it's not a meaningful comparison.

    Walking from a tree to a river isn't a possible alternative to breastfeeding, feeding from a bottle is the only feasible alternative, so I'm still puzzled as to what you're getting at here.

    Paladium30 wrote: »
    People are judged all the time for their choices, breastfeeding is no different. As an adult it shouldn't be your business what other people think.
    Well it is different, because women have actually been asked to leave restaurants for breastfeeding, so you can't just say who cares what other people think. Not to mention that if you have other (hungry) small children with you, picking up your stuff and leaving could turn into a major issue!

    And really why should people be enabled by society in judging other people negatively for feeding their children what is far and away the best food for them? It's taking intolerance to such an extreme that it needs to be called out. Because it does stop women from breast feeding, which is a shame.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    I asked why is breastfeeding more natural than a person drinking water. It's a question given the assertion that breastfeeding is the most natural thing.

    Oh are we making lists of random natural activities?
    Is drinking water more or less natural than breathing?
    Paladium30 wrote: »
    I never suggested walking from a tree to a river is more natural than breastfeeding, I said it's no less natural than breastfeeding.

    I'm an advocate if breastfeeding and women being allowed to do it in public, it's healthiest for the child. What I'm challenging is the assertion that it's the most natural thing which is meaningless hyperbole.

    See, I assumed the poster meant "most natural way of feeding a child". Perhaps you didn't understand that. Do you really need everything explained to you to this degree of literalness?

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    Actually you're so right.

    If its 'just a normal human function' then why aren't we all pissing and shxtting in cafes or on the street?


    Double standards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I've always thought boards was full of weirdos, but this thread is just disturbing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,856 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    I've heard that in Scandinavia, it's socially acceptable for menstruating women to go out in public!
    What next?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I've heard that in Scandinavia, it's socially acceptable for menstruating women to go out in public!
    What next?
    An increase in bear attacks?


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    It’s also worth pointing out that breastfeeding women are protected by law under the Equal Status Act.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,856 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    5uspect wrote: »
    It’s also worth pointing out that breastfeeding women are protected by law under the Equal Status Act.

    Here too?
    I know that is the case in the UK


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    Paladium30 wrote: »
    Someone made a point that it's the most naturally thing, I'm asking why is it more natural than people drinking water. My question isn't ambiguous, it's very clearly challenging the assumption that breastfeeding is "tye most natural thing". What makes it more natural than people drinking water or walking from a tree to a river.

    People are judged all the time for their choices, breastfeeding is no different. As an adult it shouldn't be your business what other people think.

    There are millions of natural things. The context of this conversation is feeding infants.
    There are literally only 2 options. Breast milk or formula milk.
    In that context breastfeeding is the most natural way, with well proven health benefits.
    You could just mention 1000s of other things that aren't related but why?


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