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Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee *poll not working - pl ignore*

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    #1412
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    kneemos wrote: »
    Every county has a small independent radio station. Baffled how TnaG costs twelve million extra to run

    RnaG unlike 2FM is largely talk/news radio. This will cost more than Music radio, for example Lyric FM, but then 2FM cost more than RnaG??? strange.

    Look RTÉ have a certain number of public services that many won't like, the value is in their public service rather than income.

    You can come from the view that 2fm should be sold because its not a public service and that other radio stations provide the same service.

    or you can say RnaG shouldn't cost as much as it does because it only serves a small portion of the public.

    You can say 24.7 million on imports is an outstanding waste of money

    or that 12 million is wasted on an elite orchestra.

    Thing is RTÉ could tomorrow reduce its imports and its costs at 2fm, it'd be harder for them to do the same for either the Orchestras or RnaG.

    I am not defending RTÉ.


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    #1413
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,537 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    They probably spend those millions on imports on the likes of the Big Bang Theory and British shows which EVERYONE can watch on British channels nowadays because it's not the 1980s and most people have British channels too. Anyone could go in there and save millions upon millions a year with some no brainer decisions. Why nepotism is allowed in the public sector is outrageous too, I'm looking at you Lottie. At least the normal public/civil service have a somewhat transparent application process for employment.


    They are still showing episodes of Top Gear when it starred Clarkson, May and Hammond, they have not been on the show for over 4 years.


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    #1414
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    They are still showing episodes of Top Gear when it starred Clarkson, May and Hammond, they have not been on the show for over 4 years.

    yep, they have a deal with BBC Worldwide.


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    #1415
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Given that coverage of the Papal visit seems to have cost a few bob, maybe there should be a church gate collection for RTE?


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    #1416
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,262 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    AndyBoBandy wrote: »
    Thats a nice way of them then to display the figures, to make it appear less than it actually is!! so the orchestra's actually cost €241,750 per week, or just over €1m per month.

    It would be nice if they broke out "talent" as a cost centre.


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    #1417
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,040 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Orchestras: 12,751,000, wtf is the state broadcaster funding this elite music club?

    because they need to stay sharp for their annual concert at the Helix where they play the music of Indiana Jones or Lord of the Rings, while showing the film in the back ground!!

    I'd bet if you dived into it, at least 50-70% of orchestra members (possibly more) are related to some level of RTÉ management.

    So what do you do?
    "I play the violin"
    Nice, but what's your actual job?
    "I play the violin for RTÉ and earn €80k a year"


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    #1418
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,412 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Elmo wrote: »
    RnaG unlike 2FM is largely talk/news radio. This will cost more than Music radio, for example Lyric FM, but then 2FM cost more than RnaG??? strange.

    Look RTÉ have a certain number of public services that many won't like, the value is in their public service rather than income.

    You can come from the view that 2fm should be sold because its not a public service and that other radio stations provide the same service.

    or you can say RnaG shouldn't cost as much as it does because it only serves a small portion of the public.

    You can say 24.7 million on imports is an outstanding waste of money

    or that 12 million is wasted on an elite orchestra.

    Thing is RTÉ could tomorrow reduce its imports and its costs at 2fm, it'd be harder for them to do the same for either the Orchestras or RnaG.

    I am not defending RTÉ.


    Not sure how talk radio cost more than music,they both have presenters,anyway.
    TnaG doesn't cost twelve million,this is on top of whatever revenue the generate. My point is how can small independent stations do it without this subsidy?
    Newstalk is talk and news,it survives. Radio 1 is talk and news,it gets ten or eleven million of a public subsidy??


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    #1419
    Expunge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Expunge


    AndyBoBandy wrote: »
    because they need to stay sharp for their annual concert at the Helix where they play the music of Indiana Jones or Lord of the Rings, while showing the film in the back ground!!

    I'd bet if you dived into it, at least 50-70% of orchestra members (possibly more) are related to some level of RTÉ management.

    So what do you do?
    "I play the violin"
    Nice, but what's your actual job?
    "I play the violin for RTÉ and earn €80k a year"

    What most RTE Orchestra members do is teach.

    It's pretty easy to schedule in a full weeks teaching/lecturing around their duties for RTE. They are in big demand because they are fine musicians.
    Some have positions with the RIAM or what was the DIT Conservatory of Music. Not sure how many do it but many do.


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    #1420
    Expunge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Expunge


    I notice that the RTE Board members receive 16,000 Euros each to attend about 8 meetings a year.
    The Chair, Moya O'Doherty receives 24,000 Euros.

    On top of the DG's salare of 250,000 there's an annual Car Allowance of 25,000 and Retirement Benefit Contributions (each year) of 63,000 Euros.

    Would that be in line with most other loss making companies of that size?


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    #1421
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    kneemos wrote: »
    Not sure how talk radio cost more than music,they both have presenters,anyway.
    TnaG doesn't cost twelve million,this is on top of whatever revenue the generate. My point is how can small independent stations do it without this subsidy?
    Newstalk is talk and news,it survives. Radio 1 is talk and news,it gets ten or eleven million of a public subsidy??

    Researchers and reporters. Radio 1 also gets ad revenue could be wrong but it cost 18m to run


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    #1422
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,040 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Expunge wrote: »
    What most RTE Orchestra members do is teach.

    It's pretty easy to schedule in a full weeks teaching/lecturing around their duties for RTE. They are in big demand because they are fine musicians.
    Some have positions with the RIAM or what was the DIT Conservatory of Music. Not sure how many do it but many do.


    Thats lovely, so they can earn a bit extra on the side.

    of the €12.7m they cost, you'd have to assume at least €10.5 would be on wages (€2.2m probably being very generous for running costs), so if there are 150 orchestra members, they'd each be earning on average €70,000 per year, for working weekends.

    NICE.


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    #1423
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Are there any figures for what the RTE string quartet is costing?


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    #1424
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Are there any figures for what the RTE string quartet is costing?

    No just the one figure

    2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018
    Licence Fee 155,247 166,164 170,131 182,835 195,699 200,852 200,217 195,968 167,257 180,894 182,370 178,562 178,909 179,081 186,068 189,100
    Commercial 157,425 176,718 199,757 222186 245,453 239,908 174,704 175,699 183,623 156,320 145,214 149,605 155,403 158,237 151,508 150,000
    Total 312,672 342,882 369,888 405,021 441,152 440,760 374,921 371,667 350,880 337,214 327,584 328,167 334,312 337,318 337,576 339,100
    2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018
    Arts 2,817 3,167 3,830 4,282 4,213 3,971 3,571 3,900 3,842 3,747 3,461 3,950 3,842 3,951 3,223 2,465
    Education 1,164 1,042 1,287 831 461 1,103 1,321 1,195 973 1,281 303 803 8 105 0 0
    Religion 2,296 3,112 3,735 3,820 4,615 4,932 4,460 3,971 3,349 3,043 2,546 3,137 2,921 2,427 2,651 2,945
    Factual 17,797 25,507 46,082 41,463 45,789 47,979 41,046 33,236 35,655 27,987 21,268 23,236 28,367 29,120 30,634 37,360
    Drama 35,167 35,781 44,410 40,630 40,314 43,427 33,392 29,191 25,481 22,659 23,011 20,206 21,910 22,257 24,736 25,566
    Entertainment 23,958 24,178 29,506 36,972 42,762 41,292 33,675 38,166 34,738 34,907 32,177 36,069 36,466 34,673 34,120 33,560
    Music 24,169 25,591 23,364 23,982 24,250 26,141 22,054 18,778 18,080 16,988 16,338 15,368 16,667 16,562 17,100 9,423
    News 60,247 61,161 63,602 70,157 76,198 77,423 68,499 64,400 68,343 61,064 58,018 57,108 60,491 65,553 63,531 67,593
    Sport 35,352 41,171 37,863 47,995 47,609 62,041 45,841 52,666 46,716 53,557 39,220 42,487 34,303 48,097 42,080 41,714
    Children's 9,950 10,056 12,685 14,471 17,009 16,592 15,386 12,265 11,995 8,649 9,708 8,237 9,414 7,117 3,927 5,806
    Music Groups 14,902 14,622 14,622 16,984 17,555 18,290 15,841 14,873 15,471 14,557 14,557 14,441 14,498 15,615 15,722 15,611
    2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018
    Irish Content 227,819 245,388 280,986 301,587 320,775 343,191 285,086 272,641 264,643 248,439 220,607 225,042 228,887 245,477 237,724 244,061
    Acquired 23,105 23,040 24,172 22,855 23,679 24,698 24,957 23,849 24,184 25,179 22,083 19,934 23,949 22,668 25,463 24,728
    All Content 250,924 268,428 305,158 324,442 344,454 367,889 310,043 296,490 288,827 273,618 242,690 244,976 252,836 268,145 263,187 268,789
    TG4 11,868 8,644 8,555 9,924 11,558 10,999 10,526 8,874 8,806 7,764 7,124 6,341 7,246 7,656 7,558 7,028
    Independent 45293 50,956 74,674 72,813 77,189 79,894 60,079 57,572 50,141 41,882 37,561 39,423 40,229 37,828 40,877 40,877


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    #1425
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,469 ✭✭✭political analyst


    It's obvious that Dee wants the government to bring in a broadcast household charge but we know what happened with water charges. Would the household charge work if those householders who could prove they don't use conventional TV were exempt from the charge?


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    #1426
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    political analyst wrote: »
    It's obvious that Dee wants the government to bring in a broadcast household charge but we know what happened with water charges. Would the household charge work if those householders who could prove they don't use conventional TV were exempt from the charge?

    The government like to hide behind that line of argument, oh look what happened with the property tax and water.

    Sorry but It's more down to the fact that An Post's profit is largely based on the licence fee, check out their annual report.


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    #1427
    Lackadaisical
    Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭Lackadaisical


    I’m hugely in favour of genuine public service broadcasting that’s funded independently of government - the license fee model is fine in that regard.

    I think it’s absolutely vital in this era of fake news and dwindling resources for investigative journalism in commercial media.

    However, I want to see license fee money spent on public service broadcasting, absolutely not on 2FM, Orchestras, grossly inflated overheads and HQ expenses, buying in purely commercial programming or slashing around on sponsorship to promote a brand we all know!

    Reduce the costs and narrow the focus onto real public service: news, current affairs, spend money on creating regional news output too. Spend it on quality non commercial kids programming with educational value, documentaries, arts, science etc etc programming.

    Imported shows without any public service value should be standing on their own two feet. If they’re not raising advertising revenues, they shouldn’t be on air.

    I’d rather see something like RTE 1 being made into a full PSB channel and RTE 2 being fully commercial without any support from license fees. It should be generating income, not losing it.

    Same with Radio 1 - increasingly the PSB output and 2fm would have to be run strictly commercially. If it doesn’t make a profit, it gets sold or shut down.

    The big problem with this is RTE engages in all sorts of activities that are nothing to do with public service broadcasting and is still operating like its 1961 and it’s the only broadcaster.

    The salaries need to come down too. There shouldn’t be any issue running and producing excellent programming on more average salaries. In fact, RTE staff who aren’t famous and are involved in production and presentation often are paid quite badly. There’s a huge inequity in the way those funds are being spent and it’s as bad in the BBC. Whole thing needs to be wound back to a sane level.

    It needs to be refocused on being a genuine PSB.

    Simply assuming everything RTE does is a public service is absolute nonsense.


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    #1428
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    +1


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    #1429
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    So let me get this straight. RTE's released last year's figures showing losses of 13 million. Much of the detailed expenditure is unexplained and often questionable. The state broadcaster, unlike the British state broadcaster, receives income from both licence fees and advertising revenue. Despite the dual sources of income it makes huge losses and instead of questioning where it might be spending the money it insists of draining the public of more money. Money it will use to spend on more questionable things and still come up with massive losses.

    People like Dee are deluded. It takes a high level of delusion to go on TV and blame the public and government for money she misspent and then demand more from the public. It's the public who have to spearhead change here by making a political issue out of this.


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    #1430
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Lackadaisical wrote: »
    Simply assuming everything RTE does is a public service is absolute nonsense.

    I really think both Drama and Comedy are public service, particularly in smaller countries. We should support people in Ireland working in the industry. Music is also important, and as you point out Children's Content which as been drastically dropped pretty much by RTE in both 2017 and 2018, 3.9m and 5m respectively.

    I would question not funding the Orchestras if you believe that they should be funded, who should fund them (now you may just be saying they should not get anything).


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    #1431
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Elmo wrote: »
    I really think both Drama and Comedy are public service, particularly in smaller countries. We should support people in Ireland working in the industry. Music is also important, and as you point out Children's Content which as been drastically dropped pretty much by RTE in both 2017 and 2018, 3.9m and 5m respectively.

    That is all well and good, and in theory would be an acceptable strategy. However, when the people supported in such endeavours are not picked on merit but on some sort of personal relationships of being Dee's favourite Feminist of the Month a la Huberman, Spittle, Preissner, Garrihy (take your pick) et al then it's not exactly a public service.

    Finding Joy
    Can't Cope, Won't Cope
    Nowhere Fast
    The Doireann Project

    These were all largely laugh-free productions, but ostensibly comedy shows, and in the case of the first 3 were re-branded as comedy-drama's because it completely failed on the humour factor. They also fell down on the drama aspect too but that's another issue.

    They shouldn't just make shows just for the sake of it. They seem to pick who they want to make shows first, who then fit a show around it, rather than commissioning a project which has already been written and had to pass the acid-test of the commissioning body.


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    #1432
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,505 ✭ [Deleted User]


    First thing I saw when I went looking for the annual report is apparently 81% of Irish adults consider RTÉ to be an important part of Irish life.

    What? Who on earth did they survey? Absolutely cannot be accurate, yet I'm sure if they're happy to quote it on their website they're happy to quote it when they go begging for more funds.

    And how they're happy to pay €40m for admin to An Post is beyond me. It's 2019, there are cheaper ways to do it.


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    #1433
    Lackadaisical
    Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭Lackadaisical


    Elmo wrote: »
    I really think both Drama and Comedy are public service, particularly in smaller countries. We should support people in Ireland working in the industry. Music is also important, and as you point out Children's Content which as been drastically dropped pretty much by RTE in both 2017 and 2018, 3.9m and 5m respectively.

    I would question not funding the Orchestras if you believe that they should be funded, who should fund them (now you may just be saying they should not get anything).

    The list wasn’t meant to be complete or comprehensive, just illustrative. I just mean that it should be content that is broadcast and warrants public funding. Drama, comedy, music, arts, sport that would not get commercial coverage etc all comes under that remit.

    Money that should be going on all of those things is being used to support failing commercial activities and being unnecessarily lashed around.

    I’ve no issue with RTE raising revenues transparently, but commercial programming should live or die commercially. For example if 2fm isn’t viable, sell it or get rid of it. It does nothing that a commercial station couldn’t do and it also runs ads and sponsorship and competes with them.


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    #1434
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    So its unlikely they will find the funding to bring back Wanderly Wagon or would that be offensive to our ethnic minority?


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    #1435
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Mr Crow would offend most PC dopes thinking with their emotions.


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    #1436
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    Step 1. Sell Montrose and move to a new cheaper site. It must be worth half a billion that plot.

    Step 2. Slash salaries across the board but 50% at least off the top earners.

    Step 3. Get rid of 2FM, RTE2, RTE news now and all the other stuff that increases costs like the orchestra

    Step 4. Stop giving away 10k in stupid competitions on the late late show.

    Step 5. Reduce the fee to 100 euro a year and stop sending people to prison for not paying it.


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    #1437
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    true-or-false wrote: »
    First thing I saw when I went looking for the annual report is apparently 81% of Irish adults consider RTÉ to be an important part of Irish life.

    What? Who on earth did they survey? Absolutely cannot be accurate, yet I'm sure if they're happy to quote it on their website they're happy to quote it when they go begging for more funds.

    And how they're happy to pay €40m for admin to An Post is beyond me. It's 2019, there are cheaper ways to do it.

    Survey must have been done in a retirement village in Longford.


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    #1438
    The Late Late Show
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭The Late Late Show


    Dee Forbes has not done anything worthwhile since taking on her role in RTE. While she cannot be blamed for all that goes on there, she is part of it and collectively RTE can be blamed for all the poor fare we are getting. Take a look at some categories:

    Comedy: overdoses of the very unfunny Mrs Brown's Boys and All Round to Mrs Brown along with drivel such as Finding Joy will hardly do much for Irish comedy. The constant diet of the likes of Alison Spittle and PJ Gallagher does not do much to gain respect from viewers either.

    Drama: Love/Hate from 2010-2014 was the best drama RTE did in recent times and obviously was made by people who knew Breaking Bad and the like. It was excellent and enjoyable but should have spurred on RTE to do more. Instead, RTE reverted back to tame dramas that proved failures such as Rebellion, Striking Out and Taken Down.

    Music: There hasn't been a decent music programme or a decent singer/band promoted by RTE for decades. Boybands, modern singer songwriters, modern country music and other such awful music no one likes gets promoted constantly.

    Chatshows = vehicles to promote all the above drivel.


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    #1439
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    The Late Late Show wrote: »
    Dee Forbes has not done anything worthwhile since taking on her role in RTE. While she cannot be blamed for all that goes on there, she is part of it and collectively RTE can be blamed for all the poor fare we are getting. Take a look at some categories:

    Comedy: overdoses of the very unfunny Mrs Brown's Boys and All Round to Mrs Brown along with drivel such as Finding Joy with hardly do much for Irish comedy. The constant diet of the likes of Alison Spittle and PJ Gallagher does not do much to gain respect from viewers either.

    Drama: Love/Hate from 2010-2014 was the best drama RTE did in recent times and obviously was made by people who knew Breaking Bad and the like. It was excellent and enjoyable but should have spurred on RTE to do more. Instead, RTE reverted back to tame dramas that proved failures such as Rebellion, Striking Out and Taken Down.

    Music: There hasn't been a decent music programme or a decent singer/band promoted by RTE for decades. Boybands, modern singer songwriters, modern country music and other such awful music no one likes gets promoted constantly.

    Chatshows = vehicles to promote all the above drivel.

    Love/Hate has no right being mentioned in the same general area as something as fantastic as Breaking Bad. ~Retract.


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    #1440
    The Late Late Show
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭The Late Late Show


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    Love/Hate has no right being mentioned in the same general area as something as fantastic as Breaking Bad. ~Retract.

    Breaking Bad > Love/Hate > Usual RTE rubbish.


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    #1441
    Viscount Aggro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    The content RTE produce is based on the 15% of TV viewers who only watch RTE1.
    Middle and older aged folks.


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