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Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

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  • Options
    #302
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You must have grown up in a well off home, you sound like Boris Johnson on speed. Thankfully the likes of you will never get into power.

    Lol. You do know such schemes exist but they are only temporary don't you?

    I'm starting to wonder about you.

    Do you work for a living?


  • Options
    #303
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,418 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Did you see the UN Human rights report about the Tus Scheme?

    You ran and hid

    Why do you insist people answer your questions yet dodge the questions asked of you?

    I haven't "ran or hid" anywhere, I'm still here waiting your reply to questions asked of you.


  • Options
    #304
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    I'll row back on that a touch
    Picking up litter around the town or mowing lawns on council property. Things like that. Have them start at 8 am until 530 pm 5 days a week. Work for their dole.
    Nothing for free.

    And what do you propose to do about the people whose job is to cut the grass or pick up litter in public places?

    Why do you think that these jobs are embarrassing or demeaning, do you not respect workers?


  • Options
    #305
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,459 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Let's not. They get enough handouts. Time to roll up the sleeves and make your own way in the world like the rest of us have to do
    Why would it be a handout if it's a decent job? Do you just want to humiliate poor people for fun?


  • Options
    #306
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    RustyNut wrote: »
    And what do you propose to do about the people whose job is to cut the grass or pick up litter in public places?

    Why do you think that these jobs are embarrassing or demeaning, do you not respect workers?

    Dont expect an actual answer just some glib comment.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #307
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Lol. You do know such schemes exist but they are only temporary don't you?

    I'm starting to wonder about you.

    Do you work for a living?

    Ever wondered why they are temporary?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #308
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    RustyNut wrote: »
    And what do you propose to do about the people whose job is to cut the grass or pick up litter in public places?

    Why do you think that these jobs are embarrassing or demeaning, do you not respect workers?

    Do this but long term. Forever if needs be.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/employment_support_schemes/tus.html

    No handouts
    No free money
    No free housing
    No free healthcare
    No free anything

    Work like everyone else


  • Options
    #309
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Why do you insist people answer your questions yet dodge the questions asked of you?

    I haven't "ran or hid" anywhere, I'm still here waiting your reply to questions asked of you.

    Did she work before she became pregnant?
    Has she made prsi contributions?


    How did she survive before she became pregnant?


  • Options
    #310
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,418 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Did she work before she became pregnant?
    Has she made prsi contributions?


    How did she survive before she became pregnant?

    Why do you refuse to answer questions asked of you? Why run and hide from them?

    You don't answer a question with a question, that's not how discussions work.


  • Options
    #311
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Blueshoe wrote: »

    No handouts
    No free money
    No free housing
    No free healthcare
    No free anything

    Work like everyone else

    I would hope your house is top of the break and enter heap
    I would hope the new homeless camp on your front lawn
    I would ope you have beggars on your doorstep.

    These are all things that get worse when you reduce or eliminate dole payments.

    If you had the stones to open the conversation to mental health issues (Which its ironically all about anyway as its a thread about GO'D) and pull your head out of whatever cavity its in, you could start to see why the 5% are effectively unemployable.

    Creating jobs for them isn't viable as they can't (For various reasons) be productive at what they do.

    As for your remarks about what council outdoor staff already do and do a damn good job at......you disgust me.

    How about you keep your misery to yourself.


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    #312
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Do this but long term. Forever if needs be.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/employment_support_schemes/tus.html

    No handouts
    No free money
    No free housing
    No free healthcare
    No free anything

    Work like everyone else

    Sounds like you would be happy living in somewhere like Mogadishu. All of the above would apply there, maybe you should consider a visit to this eutopia and see how your theory works in reality.


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    #313
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    AngryHippie wrote: »
    I would hope your house is top of the break and enter heap
    I would hope the new homeless camp on your front lawn
    I would ope you have beggars on your doorstep.

    These are all things that get worse when you reduce or eliminate dole payments.

    If you had the stones to open the conversation to mental health issues (Which its ironically all about anyway as its a thread about GO'D) and pull your head out of whatever cavity its in, you could start to see why the 5% are effectively unemployable.

    Creating jobs for them isn't viable as they can't (For various reasons) be productive at what they do.

    As for your remarks about what council outdoor staff already do and do a damn good job at......you disgust me.

    How about you keep your misery to yourself.

    The Tus Scheme is alive and well. Just needs to be made permanent. The outrage by some here at the suggestion that long term dole heads should work for their money really paints a picture.

    I also said people with disabilities are genuine cases not to be working. If you are saying that all long term layabouts are the way they are because of mental illness then you are gone full loop the loop

    Council staff are paid a good salary and then pension to keep our towns and cities functional and clean. It's a good job.

    Paying dole merchants to mow lawns and pick up litter is not akin to what the councils do.

    It's manual labor for dole payment for people who would rather be at home in bed or in the bookies.

    And by the looks of it they are running rings around many of you.


  • Options
    #314
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    The Tus Scheme is alive and well. Just needs to be made permanent. The outrage by some here at the suggestion that long term dole heads should work for their money really paints a picture.

    I also said people with disabilities are genuine cases not to be working. If you are saying that all long term layabouts are the way they are because of mental illness then you are gone full loop the loop

    Council staff are paid a good salary and then pension to keep our towns and cities functional and clean. It's a good job.

    Paying dole merchants to mow lawns and pick up litter is not akin to what the councils do.

    It's manual labor for dole payment for people who would rather be at home in bed or in the bookies.

    And by the looks of it they are running rings around many of you.

    Do you really not understand why the schemes are temporary?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #315
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Sounds like you would be happy living in somewhere like Mogadishu. All of the above would apply there, maybe you should consider a visit to this eutopia and see how your theory works in reality.

    I'm happy to live where I can work, buy a house ,raise a family and contribute.

    My taxes are going to layabouts who can't be arsed to get up in the morning instead of towards making this country a better place to live. Ie healthcare funding, housing and infrastructure.

    What a sad waste of money.

    People who are against the idea of those who can't be arsed to contribute to the cost of running the country are ignorant to reality.


    Now I have work on the morning and since it's nearly the end of month when I am paid I will also be contributing some of my salary to those who will roll out of bed at 12 pm tomorrow and make their way to the post office to collect money for nothing.
    I'm also unfollowing this thread.
    Nite nite


  • Options
    #316
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Blueshoe wrote: »

    Paying dole merchants to mow lawns and pick up litter is not akin to what the councils do.

    I noticed that you didn't answer my question, what to you propose to do with the people whose job is to pick up litter and cut grass? Replace them with cheap labor then lay them off?


    I'm not sure you have thought this theory through.


  • Options
    #317
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    RustyNut wrote: »
    I noticed that you didn't answer my question, what to you propose to do with the people whose job is to pick up litter and cut grass? Replace them with cheap labor then lay them off?


    I'm not sure you have thought this theory through.

    It already exists . Happening in every rural town in the country. How many staff do you think that the council have to cover every piece of rubbish and every blade of grass?
    I saw a crew of Tus lads out painting the community centre walls last week. Week before that they were removing rubble from a derelict building.
    No shortage of things for them to be at.



    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/employment_support_schemes/tus.html


  • Options
    #318
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    RustyNut wrote: »
    I noticed that you didn't answer my question, what to you propose to do with the people whose job is to pick up litter and cut grass? Replace them with cheap labor then lay them off?


    I'm not sure you have thought this theory through.
    This is essentially what happens in rural villages/graveyards etc


    Have you heard of the CE scheme


  • Options
    #319
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Blueshoe wrote: »

    I also said people with disabilities are genuine cases not to be working. If you are saying that all long term layabouts are the way they are because of mental illness then you are gone full loop the loop

    Paying dole merchants to mow lawns and pick up litter is not akin to what the councils do.

    It's manual labor for dole payment for people who would rather be at home in bed or in the bookies.

    And by the looks of it they are running rings around many of you.

    If you think any of your suggestions are actionable or enforceable, we know where the loop the loop is :rolleyes:

    You clearly haven't got a clue about mental health, engagement, productivity, management, enforcement, labor economics, social care....the list will go on as you are just ignoring decades of solid, well researched theory and experience because it doesn't suit your narrative.

    Start at the Beveridge Curve, follow the theory to Okun's Law, consider what the impact of removing a stimulus to the economy will do to do GDP and realize that there is a balance there.
    Just be very bloody grateful if:
    you have a rewarding job
    you understand job satisfaction
    you are mentally well rounded and balanced
    you are physically healthy enough to work and have a work/life balance
    you have the skills for a job that you are proud of
    you have opportunities for growth and improvement

    rather than sh***ng on people that may not have the above, they envy you, not the other way around.

    Why do you think they are running rings around anyone ? They are in your own words sitting at home watching tv while you have the chance to save for holidays, have a social life, raise a prosperous family, teach kids how to be adults, reap the love and rewards from all of the above, while they sit in a pit of ignorance and resentment. They don't need to be judged and shat on while they are there.

    Have you no pity man.
    Have you no shame.


  • Options
    #320
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [HTML][/HTML]
    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Let's not. They get enough handouts. Time to roll up the sleeves and make your own way in the world like the rest of us have to do

    Cutting grass in council areas and picking up litter are council jobs and what your basically stating is that they be free labour.

    You might argue that it isn't but as the council aren't paying them a wage, this is free labour. If the council needs these jobs to be done they should be offering these positions to the public where they will have a reasonable wage and conditions.

    I believe that you used to be a mechanic, a trade like a lot of others that the arse fell out of in 2008, with full time jobs replaced with jobs bridge, a government funded free labour scheme.
    So a lot of mechanics and others ended up on the dole, emigrated, or if they were lucky lived with their parents while availing of taxpayer funded subsidised third level education, basically all getting hand outs.

    Now I don't know what your working as now, but unless you won the lottery or had a lot of savings, you availed of hand outs yourself.

    I've been working since I was 15, younger than that if you count summer jobs, and paid close to 15,000 to do my degree while I was working, and still have to upskill regularly. However the industry I work in, if I was to lose my job in the next 10 to 15 years I wouldn't get another job in the industry as I would be discriminated against due to my age.

    If that happens I'll be on the dole and facing a number of choices, but anyone telling me I should work for free can go **** themselves.


  • Options
    #321
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    [HTML][/HTML]

    Cutting grass in council areas and picking up litter are council jobs and what your basically stating is that they be free labour.

    You might argue that it isn't but as the council aren't paying them a wage, this is free labour. If the council needs these jobs to be done they should be offering these positions to the public where they will have a reasonable wage and conditions.

    I believe that you used to be a mechanic, a trade like a lot of others that the arse fell out of in 2008, with full time jobs replaced with jobs bridge, a government funded free labour scheme.
    So a lot of mechanics and others ended up on the dole, emigrated, or if they were lucky lived with their parents while availing of taxpayer funded subsidised third level education, basically all getting hand outs.

    Now I don't know what your working as now, but unless you won the lottery or had a lot of savings, you availed of hand outs yourself.

    I've been working since I was 15, younger than that if you count summer jobs, and paid close to 15,000 to do my degree while I was working, and still have to upskill regularly. However the industry I work in, if I was to lose my job in the next 10 to 15 years I wouldn't get another job in the industry as I would be discriminated against due to my age.

    If that happens I'll be on the dole and facing a number of choices, but anyone telling me I should work for free can go **** themselves.

    Are you genuinely not aware of CE or Tus schemes?

    People who are long term unemployed work for their dole for a year. As I said these schemes are in all rural towns and villages.

    You have paid prsi contributions. You are entitled to social welfare. You have contributed to the system. My point is with people who have never worked and never intend to work


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    #322
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Are you genuinely not aware of CE or Tus schemes?

    Tried.
    Tested.
    Failed.
    Warburton, Jeni; Smith, Jennifer (December 2003), "Out of the Generosity of Your Heart: Are We Creating Active Citizens through Compulsory Volunteer Programmes for Young People in Australia?", Social Policy and Administration, 37 (7): 772–786
    Muller, J; Goddard, R; Creed, PA; Johnson, K; Waters, L (2005), "Evaluating work for the dole in Australia: Do women get a fair go?", Australian Journal of Psychiatry, 57: 139–140
    Gareth Hutchens (1 August 2014). "No modelling to prove Abbott's dole plan works". Brisbane Times. Retrieved 1 August 2014.

    It actually makes people less likely to find long term work, increases dependence and is in practice discriminatory against women.


    NEXT!


    Sorry, forgot this one:
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/work-for-the-dole-is-inefficient-and-unreasonable-and-should-be-dismantled-acoss-20160215-gmumzb.html


  • Options
    #323
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Are you genuinely not aware of CE or Tus schemes?

    People who are long term unemployed work for their dole for a year. As I said these schemes are in all rural towns and villages.

    You have paid prsi contributions. You are entitled to social welfare. You have contributed to the system. My point is with people who have never worked and never intend to work

    I am aware of them and my argument is that the jobs should be done through the council, which means people earn a reasonable wage and have full time employment.

    Council workers, my wife is one, have to agree to move department as required. While she works for one section in the council, she has friends who work as litter wardens in the council and they see some ce schemes such as those mentioned already in the thread as being ones where the council should be directly employing as the work is there.


  • Options
    #324
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Economics does not work when people are handed money for nothing. There is no free money. Someone is paying for it. In this case it's the people who bother to get up every day.

    There would be more money available for the betterment of the country if less was being given away in handouts.

    The rest of your ramblings don't warrant a repy

    Once again not a clue about economics. If you cut payments society will be far worse off.

    You say the rest of my rambling's dosen't warrant a reply. Of course you won't reply. You wouldn't want to be seen be against the HPV vaccine or against gay marriage or be on the side of a person who says there is a cure for cancer. By any chance do you believe in chemtrails?


  • Options
    #325
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Words on a screen wrote: »
    Who is the pedo she was protesting about yesterday @ rte? Done a runner back to Nigeria after coming here for asylum.. are we that bad? haha


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismahil_Akinade

    Apparently he was deported


  • Options
    #326
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Are you genuinely not aware of CE or Tus schemes?

    People who are long term unemployed work for their dole for a year. As I said these schemes are in all rural towns and villages.

    You have paid prsi contributions. You are entitled to social welfare. You have contributed to the system. My point is with people who have never worked and never intend to work

    Thats not your point at all. Your point is about lazy stereotypes and generalisations and sitting smugly in judgement of those "beneath" you

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #327
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismahil_Akinade

    Apparently he was deported

    He done alright for himself here in Ireland. A hero at Bohs and Waterford FC even after he raped a child.


  • Options
    #328
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    She was at Rte protesting the fact that RTE have published a symphatetic article about the player having to leave Ireland and lamenting the loss for his football club.
    They neglected to mention however that he is a convicted gang rapist of a 14 year old girl.
    I think everyone here (whether you hate Gemma or not can agree that RTE have disgraced themselves in this particular instance.


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    #329
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    He done alright for himself here in Ireland. A hero at Bohs and Waterford FC even after he raped a child.

    If he was white he'd probably never play football again as sponsors would be looking to revoke their sponsorship like what happened with Ched Evans who was later found not guilty. Disgrace that he was given a suspended sentence for rape he should have been given at least 5 years and then deported.


  • Options
    #330
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    If he was white he'd probably never play football again as sponsors would be looking to revoke their sponsorship like what happened with Ched Evans who was later found not guilty. Disgrace that he was given a suspended sentence for rape he should have been given at least 5 years and then deported.

    Many Irish journalists (particularly female journalists, Una M comes to mind) have written extensively about both the Ched Evans case and Ulster Rugby cases. They spat vitriol and indignation in every article. We should remember that in all likelyhood they were well aware of the case of the Nigerian footballer but chose to ignore it completely.


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    #331
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    She was at Rte protesting the fact that RTE have published a symphatetic article about the player having to leave Ireland and lamenting the loss for his football club.
    They neglected to mention however that he is a convicted gang rapist of a 14 year old girl.
    I think everyone here (whether you hate Gemma or not can agree that RTE have disgraced themselves in this particular instance.

    Just looked up the article.... It's a pretty generic sports article and that's about it.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0624/1057321-blow-for-waterford-as-akinade-makes-swift-exit/

    He's definitely scum but it either simply wasn't on the radar of the writer or he simply didn't feel need to include it in such a basic piece. Would hardly classify it as RTE disgracing themselves. If he was a genuinely prominent name, then that would be different. But he isn't.


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