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Electric cars to me are a load of rubbish : Michael Healy-Rae

245

Comments

  • #32
    oceanfroggie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 ✭oceanfroggie


    slave1 wrote: »
    I hope you're right but from the looks of things a price point has been set for long range/~64 sized batteries and it's €37-€40k and I can't see that changing for years to come

    I was at a presentation a few months ago on global EV production and one of the interesting snippets of data was how battery costs per kWh were continuing to fall exponentially on the market much like a commodity. Lots of stats on new factories as the global market scales to cope with the 'transition era' from ICE to BEV. Only time will tell if this is true or hope. VW have been running around the world buying up factories, which could cause a supply problem for competitors, but china could be the solution to the global battery shortage. They are opening dozens of factories that are larger than Tesla's giga factories. Next years VW ID.3 is pitched to sell at the same price as current ICE golfs. I have an eye on the ID.Crozz which should cost the same or even slightly less than the current Kona 64. When looking at cost TCO has to be considered, BEV saves a lot on fuel and servicing costs per annum. I used to spend €500/pm on diesel, now that €42 on night rate electricity for home charging. Yipee I will never have to go to a filling station forecourt again.


  • #33
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Until there is guidance on how you install a charge point to charge the car when your designated parking space is across the road or kerbside you cannot have widespread adoption. Considering there is electricity on both sides of the damn road its insane to have to pay to dig up the road to get a charge point to your space.


  • #34
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭stimpson


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Until there is guidance on how you install a charge point to charge the car when your designated parking space is across the road or kerbside you cannot have widespread adoption. Considering there is electricity on both sides of the damn road its insane to have to pay to dig up the road to get a charge point to your space.

    Ther is a scheme in London where they install charge points on lampposts and you can pay for a charge with a QR code and an app. There are solutions out there.


  • #35
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    stimpson wrote: »
    Ther is a scheme in London where they install charge points on lampposts and you can pay for a charge with a QR code and an app. There are solutions out there.

    There are but there's no consistency or widespread adoption yet. I'm in a private estate not in charge of the council. Its just not going to happen currently even though I would go electric in a heartbeat. Unfortunately we had to compromise on driveway when we bought. There's no clarity on how insurance works, if I install a kerbside charger do I own it? The land on the footpath isn't mine. What happens if someone walks into it and injures themselves, is it me or the management company that are liable? Too many questions currently

    And the public charging system doesn't seem to work consistently here at all. I definitely wouldn't buy being dependent on it


  • #36
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Until there is guidance on how you install a charge point to charge the car when your designated parking space is across the road or kerbside you cannot have widespread adoption. Considering there is electricity on both sides of the damn road its insane to have to pay to dig up the road to get a charge point to your space.


    Do you have a petrol pump across the road or kerbside?:P I joke but long range BEV means a fill once a week for a huge amount of people



    At the moment Nigel Daly and other suppliers have solutions to kerbsite etc


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  • #37
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    There are but there's no consistency or widespread adoption yet. I'm in a private estate not in charge of the council. Its just not going to happen currently even though I would go electric in a heartbeat. Unfortunately we had to compromise on driveway when we bought. There's no clarity on how insurance works, if I install a kerbside charger do I own it? The land on the footpath isn't mine. What happens if someone walks into it and injures themselves, is it me or the management company that are liable? Too many questions currently

    And the public charging system doesn't seem to work consistently here at all. I definitely wouldn't buy being dependent on it

    I had some discussions with my insurance companies when installing a charger outside my home in a private estate with on street parking.
    My car insurance company reasoned that they would provide the exact same cover for the kerbside charger as they would for any other charger in a public space, i.e. as the cable came with the car, and the car is plugged into a charging socket, liability for the car charging port to the charging socket lay with the operator of the car and hence was covered by my vehicle insurance.

    If you are worried about insurance issues, I would recommend that you install a non tethered charger that is designed for operation in the public realm. Here's the charging point we installed. post

    You will pay more for the charger, and I recommend that you work with one of the more experienced installers, they will cost more, but can work with the mgmt company to allay any issues.


  • #38
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    liamog wrote: »
    I had some discussions with my insurance companies when installing a charger outside my home in a private estate with on street parking.
    My car insurance company reasoned that they would provide the exact same cover for the kerbside charger as they would for any other charger in a public space, i.e. as the cable came with the car, and the car is plugged into a charging socket, liability for the car charging port to the charging socket lay with the operator of the car and hence was covered by my vehicle insurance.

    If you are worried about insurance issues, I would recommend that you install a non tethered charger that is designed for operation in the public realm. Here's the charging point we installed. post

    You will pay more for the charger, and I recommend that you work with one of the more experienced installers, they will cost more, but can work with the mgmt company to allay any issues.

    Yeah I’ve seen this before and looked into it at the time. As my budget for car is about 12k it’s just not financially there yet when 1.5-2k of that would have to go on a pillar charger. That’s not counting how awkward my management company were being. The space at my door is non designated. My own is across the road. I’m due to upgrade next January so we’ll look into it again at that stage and see if we get further


  • #39
    reg114
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    FFred wrote: »
    From the man himself who must believe that oil is going to last forever ...:pac:

    https://www.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/watch-electric-cars-to-me-are-a-load-of-rubbish-michael-healyrae-36220056.html#play

    Edit : Just realised that his words of wisdom were from 1.5 years ago. Apologies if it was discussed before

    Healey Rae is a professional troll do not take the bait. The exponential rise in sales of electric cars in the first few months of this year alone blow his ignorance clean out of the water.


  • #40
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    To him and his needs he’s probably right.

    There is a constant chant that there is an ev out there for everyone, there isn’t. From that perspective there is allot of rubbish being thrown about by hardline believers.

    I’d say currently there are EV suitable for max 50% of road users, the remainders needs can only be met by petrol or diesel. No matter what taxes you add it doesn’t magic up EV that suit all users, it just punishes people for not buying something that doesn’t actually exist.


  • #41
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,790 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    _Brian wrote: »
    To him and his needs he’s probably right.

    There is a constant chant that there is an ev out there for everyone, there isn’t. From that perspective there is allot of rubbish being thrown about by hardline believers.

    I’d say currently there are EV suitable for max 50% of road users, the remainders needs can only be met by petrol or diesel. No matter what taxes you add it doesn’t magic up EV that suit all users, it just punishes people for not buying something that doesn’t actually exist.

    From who? Certainly not a common view on this forum from what I've seen.


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  • #42
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    From who? Certainly not a common view on this forum from what I've seen.

    You see ot all the time on boards and other forums, then there’s the last ditch throw out of “a Tesla can do that”, sure, as if an€70k car is a solution for tuenevery day punter 🙄


  • #43
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    _Brian wrote: »
    You see ot all the time on boards and other forums, then there’s the last ditch throw out of “a Tesla can do that”, sure, as if an€70k car is a solution for tuenevery day punter 🙄


    Where? bar one thread when the person asked for a 4k car and the recommendation was a Kona I have not seen anything like that.....that was on motors and was disaster



    On this forum everyone is very up front on the benefit and draw backs of BEV.


  • #44
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,675 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    _Brian wrote: »
    You see ot all the time on boards

    Any examples? Pretty much everyone in this forum, the biggest fans of EVs included, are open and honest about the drawbacks of EVs and the suitability or unsuitability of them for people asking
    _Brian wrote: »
    then there’s the last ditch throw out of “a Tesla can do that”, sure, as if an€70k car is a solution for tuenevery day punter ��

    I only remember seeing something like that posted as a reply to someone making an untrue, generalising comment like "EVs can not tow". I've done it myself with a video of a Tesla or a MINI towing a big airplane :D

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  • #45
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,447 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I'd be interested in a EV, but just a number of concerns at the moment.

    My main reasons

    1) the price of purchasing one (just seems extravagant at the moment, for work and for family)

    2) mates who bought one have told me about little thing that can affect the battery usage, which is obvious when you think about it, such as using the radio, heating, wipers, all will lessen the mileage you can get per charge.

    3) I travel about 80-90km per day. Feel like it would be requiring a daily charge of home install unit which is another expense.

    4) future price of elected to runs these cars, since all that tax
    Loss on petrol and diesel will have to be made up somewhere.


    Suppose I'll keep my current car until it literally stops working then take another look at EV

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • #46
    jusmeig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    The Healy-Rae's are like organized religion, you are not suppose to take them seriously.


  • #47
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,328 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    I'd be interested in a EV, but just a number of concerns at the moment.

    My main reasons

    1) the price of purchasing one (just seems extravagant at the moment, for work and for family)

    Valid concern. They are too epxensive but you do need to look at the fuel savings and factor that into the purchase decision.
    TheValeyard wrote: »
    2) mates who bought one have told me about little thing that can affect the battery usage, which is obvious when you think about it, such as using the radio, heating, wipers, all will lessen the mileage you can get per charge.

    None of those affect range except heating. Most EV's can pre-heat the car before you get into it in the morning (so no effect on range) and maintaining the heat is then very little. You just need to use that feature.

    With longer range EV's now also available it matters even less.
    TheValeyard wrote: »
    3) I travel about 80-90km per day. Feel like it would be requiring a daily charge of home install unit which is another expense.

    If you buy a s/h short range EV then yes it will require a daily charge. Thats no big deal. You do that for your phone so the car isnt any different. It takes 10s at the end of the day to plug it in.

    There is a grant for the charge point which covers 90%-100% of the cost of the charge point. Its not a reason to not buy an EV.
    TheValeyard wrote: »
    4) future price of electric to runs these cars, since all that tax
    Loss on petrol and diesel will have to be made up somewhere.

    It will have to come from somewhere but you will be paying double if you stick with ICE as carbon tax is on its way and you will be hit alot harder on ICE than you will on home electricity.

    The running costs on electricity are about 20% of your diesel.

    TheValeyard wrote: »
    Suppose I'll keep my current car until it literally stops working then take another look at EV

    Nothing wrong with that either.

    I would suggest two things...
    - Test drive an EV. Its the drive is what usually hooks people. THey are very nice to drive.
    - Look at your ICE running costs and compare to EV running costs and THEN decide if it makes financial sense to you or not. Dont just look at the buy price. At 90km/day I think your savings will be substantial.

    I save about €2k+ per year by running an EV vs ICE.


  • #48
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,432 ✭✭✭bladespin


    KCross wrote:
    The running costs on electricity are about 20% of your diesel.


    Does that take account of battery wear and tear over the lifetime of the car?
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  • #49
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    bladespin wrote: »
    Does that take account of battery wear and tear over the lifetime of the car?


    That is as hard to judge as trying to work out how many horses a standrad petrol/diesel car is losing over time.....

    You could monitor monthly via app's etc.


  • #50
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,432 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Shefwedfan wrote:
    That is as hard to judge as trying to work out how many horses a standrad petrol/diesel car is losing over time.....

    Not asking about horsepower, just cost.
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  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The battery most likely will last the lifetime of the car. All of the current models have 8 year capacity warranties, some unlimited mileage (like Tesla).


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  • #52
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,328 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    bladespin wrote: »
    Does that take account of battery wear and tear over the lifetime of the car?
    bladespin wrote: »
    Not asking about horsepower, just cost.

    I have not heard of anyone having to replace a battery in UK/Ireland so it would be overkill to include that in your calculations. It would be like saying I am going to include a full engine rebuild in my ICE TCO figure.... you wouldnt do that so why would you do it for EV?

    So, the answer is no.


    Batteries have had to be replaced in very hot climates in Gen 1 EV's which were not able to handle the heat. Not an issue in this country and not an issue in new EV's which have active cooling.


    By the time the battery in a new Gen EV is no longer usable the car will have depreciated to "zero" anyway.


  • #53
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    There isn't enough lithium on the planet for what we need for EV's, so he might have a point. This is something EV proponents have consistently ignored.
    You'll never get haulage with enough capacity to haul tens of tonnes of food/goods around from EV's unless there's another trailer for the battery.
    Don't get me wrong, the Healy-Rae's are complete gombeens, and we need to get rid of diesel/petrol/ethanol/etc, but I think the solution is a long way from being realistic en masse.


  • #54
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,328 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    There isn't enough lithium on the planet for what we need for EV's, so he might have a point.

    Have you a source for that?
    I dont believe thats true at all.

    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    You'll never get haulage with enough capacity to haul tens of tonnes of food/goods around from EV's unless there's another trailer for the battery.

    The focus is on cars. Switching all commercial vehicles to battery electric is not on the cards any time soon. Hydrogen is more likely to be the solution for them in the long term.


  • #55
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,675 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    There isn't enough lithium on the planet for what we need for EV's

    More nonsense. To replace all the cars in the world with EVs (1.2 billion cars), we need 42MT of lithium. The current known lithium resources are 58MT (and new resources are found regularly)

    Add to that, the fact that lithium can be recycled infinitely

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  • #56
    jusmeig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    There isn't enough lithium on the planet for what we need for EV's, so he might have a point.

    This is completely wrong.
    "At 20 mg lithium per kg of Earth's crust, lithium is the 25th most abundant element."

    I think you mean't Cobalt, which is far more rare.
    But if you did, then its still not right, as there has been a big reduction in it's usage with a path to get rid of Cobalt completely from new battery cells.


  • #57
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    bladespin wrote: »
    Not asking about horsepower, just cost.

    Do you factor in a replacement engine when considering a petrol car???


  • #58
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    There might be enough lithium in theory but now much of it is extractable?


  • #59
    eddhorse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    Battery degradation for Tesla owners here :
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/t024bMoRiDPIDialGnuKPsg/edit#gid=0

    Around 10% after 200,000km


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    There might be enough lithium in theory but now much of it is extractable?

    Can't be extracted from rock currently if ever but seawater might become an useful resource if going gets tough. But process would be very expensive compared to mining the current deposits. Li is hard to replace with other metals so it's essential to ensure there are sufficient reserves remaining at any time.


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  • #61
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    There might be enough lithium in theory but now much of it is extractable?

    First it was cobalt and not it’s lithium....

    Strange but combustion car must be made of water and air.....or some sort of limitless resource


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